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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  9/17/2014
FRIDAY, AUG 1, 2014  |  271 comments
Philosopher: Christians Should Not Believe in 'Left Behind's' Rapture Theology,

Several months before "Left Behind" opens in theaters, a prominent Christian philosopher is reminding the American church that the movie's claims about the rapture are false.

"This doctrine is not really found in the book of Revelation. If you read the book of Revelation, you won't find any mention of the rapture there," said William Craig, a Research Professor of Philosophy at Talbot School of Theology and Professor of Philosophy at Houston Baptist University.

Instead, Craig says, the idea of the rapture comes from a "misinterpretation of 1 and 2 Thessalonians where Paul is describing the coming of the Lord and resurrection of the dead, which will occur at His coming." ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 271 user comment(s)
News Item9/1/14 8:03 PM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Jim Lincoln wrote:
John Y., if you are saved you will show the fruits of your salvation, you do have to repent,
You can look up those verses yourself, It's obvious you haven't repented because by the very simple act of to Come Out Of The Catholic Church, you would encourage others to do the same, since it's a church that leads to death, and are discouraging others from realizing, Is A Catholic Christian An Oxymoron? (Yes!)
It is only in your warped mind that I have not repented. I repented when I embraced Jesus as Savior during that Altar Call at my brothers Non Denominational Church. And by you stating that ones salvation hinges on one leaving the Catholic Church is totally unbiblical as nowhere in the Bibe is church attendance/membership in any church including any Protestant Church mentioned as being required for salvation. The only requirement for salvation according to the Bible and Baptist teaching(Which comes from the Bible) is to trust in Jesus alone for salvation by embracing Him as ones Savior. According to Baptist teaching I am saved.
271

News Item9/1/14 5:14 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
John Y., if you are saved you will show the fruits of your salvation, you do have to repent,
Amer. Tract Dictionary 1859 wrote:
REPENTANCE:
... the true gospel repentance, or "repentance unto life," is sorrow for sin, grief for having committed it, and a turning away from it with abhorrence, accompanied with sincere endeavors, in reliance on God’s grace and the influences of the Holy Spirit, to live in humble and holy obedience to the commands and will of God. This is that repentance which always accompanies true faith, and to which is promised the free forgiveness of sin through the merits of Jesus Christ, Mt 4:17 Ac 3:19 11:18 20:12.
You can look up those verses yourself, It's obvious you haven't repented because by the very simple act of to Come Out Of The Catholic Church, you would encourage others to do the same, since it's a church that leads to death, and are discouraging others from realizing, Is A Catholic Christian An Oxymoron? (Yes!)
270

News Item8/31/14 6:10 PM
What concord  Find all comments by What concord
John Yurich USA wrote:
By stating that being a Christian hinges on one leaving the Catholic Church in addition to embracing Jesus as ones Savior then you are in essence adding another requirement onto salvation. ..
2 Cor 6. 11- 18

O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged. Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels. Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged. Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Christians are those who care to obey God so that they can enjoy His presence. Not so JY.

269

News Item8/31/14 5:55 PM
SteveR | Mt Zion  Find all comments by SteveR
John Yurich USA wrote:
By stating that being a Christian hinges on one leaving the Catholic Church in addition to embracing Jesus as ones Savior then you are in essence adding another requirement onto salvation.
Bingo
268

News Item8/31/14 5:51 PM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Jim Lincoln wrote:
Millions of Catholics have become ex-Catholics, because they have come to realize that the Romish Church is a false church, a Catholic who becomes a Christian will Come Out Of The Catholic Church. He is not being a Christian by remaining in it.
By stating that being a Christian hinges on one leaving the Catholic Church in addition to embracing Jesus as ones Savior then you are in essence adding another requirement onto salvation. The Bible makes it crystal clear that there is only one requirement for salvation and that is to trust in Jesus alone for salvation by embracing Him as ones Savior. The Bible does not state anywhere that church attendance/membership in any church including Evangelical Protestant Churches is required for salvation.
267

News Item8/31/14 4:53 PM
pennned  Find all comments by pennned
Thank God there is plain old biblical Christianity to turn to, the old rugged cross and the redeemed life. I've been thinking about what Mr. Hranek said about the continuing of spiritual gifts, and what a blessing it is to serve a might God!
266

News Item8/31/14 4:38 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Dr. Thomas Ice had a very good commentary on some of the bad effects that non-dispensationalists have had, What is Dominion Theology? (PDF).

Millions of Catholics have become ex-Catholics, because they have come to realize that the Romish Church is a false church, a Catholic who becomes a Christian will Come Out Of The Catholic Church He is not being a Christian by remaining in it. Look at the the article, Catholicism’s “Marvelous” Unity; and Blowing Up Bridges.

265

News Item8/18/14 3:33 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
Fortunately there are moments when a sweet fellowship is enjoyed, especially times when differences have been set aside to lift one another up in matter that compell us to ask it (prayer) of one another.

Amen! Saint Michael!
I appreciate the kind return of words and encouragement.
-----------------------------------------
SteveR, Thank you for your addition. Help me understand why a Catholic who is a believer would remain in the Catholic Church. What is your understanding on this?

1 Thessalonians 5:21
but test everything; hold fast what is good.

264

News Item8/18/14 3:09 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
James Thomas wrote:
Saint Michael of NY
Saint James
Thanks, I appreciate the reply.
It would appear you are using your gifts, in this case what I would believe is a God given gift to communicate

I can well understand we are limited by space here on SermonAudio
and sadly with some of the arguments over doctrine it can hinder simply (not the best word) talking about the Lord Jesus Christ and what is real Biblical faith in Him, not just in the doctrinal camps men use to express their faith or abuse to intimidate Lord it over others (that would be my opinion and/or observation from years posting on SermonAudio)

Fortunately there are moments when a sweet fellowship is enjoyed, especially times when differences have been set aside to lift one another up in matter that compell us to ask it (prayer) of one another

263

News Item8/18/14 2:32 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
Saint Michael of NY,

I use Mr. as a sign of respect as I would any other men. I do apologize to you for any possible insult as that was not intended at all. Had we been having a verbal conversation that would come through clear. We have limitations in this type of communication as you have just demonstrated.
I haven't the proper room for my testimony here as the work God has done in my life is tremendous and expansive.
I even hesitate to condense but I hope to provide what you have asked.
I made my decision, prayed the sinners prayer at 23 and thought I was saved. Continued to live the same, think the same, no real desire to read the Bible. Would pick it up when things went bad for me but absolutely not convicted of anything sinful.
About 4 years ago, was going to a First Baptist Church on an off. Listening to Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen, hearing what they said and thinking that was great. Woke up at around 2am with a desire to read the Bible...Read some, went back to bed not really understanding
but knowing I wanted to know more. Was outside working, thinking about the work I had to do and I was interrupted by a commanding voice (by myself) and heard "Use Your Gifts". It spooked me out at first, but been changed ever since.

262

News Item8/18/14 11:02 AM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
James Thomas wrote:
Ask the heap Mr Hranek.
That is how we learn.
People can take their understanding to far and in the process do harm instead. Steven Anderson and KJV onlyism would be an example of what I am referring to.
Slamming WCF, Arminians, and the like do harm as the pride in our system becomes our focus as opposed to Scripture and our Lord. Conversations can and should happen but only with the right mindset and heart.
James Thomas
Let's get this right.
From the things you have posted, "Brother, Saint, Believer" I would take it much better if you would NOT call me Mr. Hranek, you may not intend it as such (or maybe you do, you haven't said) but it comes across as an insult, as if you don't consider me a genuine born again Christian

So to help in communication, let me respectfully ask, would you mind briefly sharing your conversion testimony, as I do not want to have a wrong understanding of you one way or the other.
Thanks

261

News Item8/18/14 10:07 AM
James Thomas  Find all comments by James Thomas
Michael Hranek wrote:
James Thomas
It helps me to better understand where you seem to be coming from. I would still have a heap of questions

Ask the heap Mr Hranek.
That is how we learn.
People can take their understanding to far and in the process do harm instead. Steven Anderson and KJV onlyism would be an example of what I am referring to.

Slamming WCF, Arminians, and the like do harm as the pride in our system becomes our focus as opposed to Scripture and our Lord. Conversations can and should happen but only with the right mindset and heart.

260

News Item8/18/14 10:01 AM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
James Thomas wrote:
Arminian,Calvinist are man made labels to identify his understanding of Scripture.
Saints,brothers,believers are God inspired terms to identify those saved.
See the problem?
I can't answer that question as you have presented it as all the terms are not defined by God.
God did not use those terms to identify the saved.
One question that can provide the answer is:
Does sin still gratify you?
A man in right relation to God will not be gratified by sin as God has defined it in the Bible. Nor will he attempt to manipulate Scripture to justify his sin but instead repent and distance himself from it to honor God.
Are there Arminians saved? Yes
Are there Calvinist saved? Yes
Are there Arminians lost? Yes
Are there Calvinists lost? Yes
God has two groups only. Lost and saved. Believers and unbelievers.
James
Neat answer!

However, Steve R's, post is another matter, smacking of the influence of Roman Catholic and ecumenical propaganda

BECAUSE the RCC claims, very much wrongly, to be the Only True Church, again wrongly claiming that Jesus built upon Peter

Are there Catholics saved despite the false gosple of the RCC? Yes
Are there Catholics saved because of the false gospel of the RCC? No

259

News Item8/18/14 9:37 AM
SteveR | Mt Zion  Find all comments by SteveR
James Thomas wrote:
Arminian,Calvinist are man made labels to identify his understanding of Scripture.
Saints,brothers,believers are God inspired terms to identify those saved.
See the problem?
I can't answer that question as you have presented it as all the terms are not defined by God.
God did not use those terms to identify the saved.
One question that can provide the answer is:
Does sin still gratify you?
A man in right relation to God will not be gratified by sin as God has defined it in the Bible. Nor will he attempt to manipulate Scripture to justify his sin but instead repent and distance himself from it to honor God.
Are there Arminians saved? Yes
Are there Calvinist saved? Yes
Are there Arminians lost? Yes
Are there Calvinists lost? Yes
God has two groups only. Lost and saved. Believers and unbelievers.
to continue
Are there Catholics saved? Yes
Are there Catholics lost? Yes
258

News Item8/18/14 9:35 AM
James Thomas  Find all comments by James Thomas
Interested wrote:
You take an easy example. What about those whom you would label Arminian. Are they saved?
Arminian,Calvinist are man made labels to identify his understanding of Scripture.
Saints,brothers,believers are God inspired terms to identify those saved.
See the problem?
I can't answer that question as you have presented it as all the terms are not defined by God.
God did not use those terms to identify the saved.
One question that can provide the answer is:
Does sin still gratify you?
A man in right relation to God will not be gratified by sin as God has defined it in the Bible. Nor will he attempt to manipulate Scripture to justify his sin but instead repent and distance himself from it to honor God.

Are there Arminians saved? Yes
Are there Calvinist saved? Yes

Are there Arminians lost? Yes
Are there Calvinists lost? Yes

God has two groups only. Lost and saved. Believers and unbelievers.

257

News Item8/16/14 5:07 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
James Thomas you have a point, one that Charles Ryrie would I think agree with, but some others are not so tolerant.
Dr. Thomas Ice wrote:
As sales and influence continues to grow in the Left Behind series, so does jealous opposition and criticism. Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins, authors of the multi-million, number one bestsellers, do not attack anyone else' s views of Bible prophecy. They merely present their views in novel form. Opponents of this unprecedented series attempt to draw attention to their neglected views by hitching their wagons to the Left Behind series by writing critical books and articles against the novels.

One such critic is apparent Seventh Day Adventist Steve Wohlberg. He has come out with both guns blazing by producing at least two books, audio and video tapes, and a web site against the Left Behind series. I have a copy of his book The Left Behind Deception.[1] All of this appears to be an effort to generate some kind of hearing for the faint voice known as historicism....

excerpt from, https://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/WhentheTruthGetsLeftBehind.html(When the Truth Gets Left Behind).
256

News Item8/16/14 3:52 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
James Thomas wrote:
I hope this answers your question.
James Thomas
It helps me to better understand where you seem to be coming from. I would still have a heap of questions but it is not my intention to interrogate you but to better comprehend your thinking.

Interested asked a good question:
"What about those whom you would label Arminian. Are they saved?"

In your early posts you spoke of the Lord warning people about pride? Is pride something you see as a very real tempation to those who are zealous for what they call the "Doctrines of Grace" (in my imperfect observation here) as some seem to act like they are the "only true Christians"

That is part of why I asked what I did early. Is there a fear among such people that they are terrified they might shipwreck their faith by even thinking there might be actual Biblical Christianity, a real experiential faith in Christ beyond the limits of the Institutes of Calvin, Dordt and the WCF, let alone coming out from among the Calvinists into a more Biblical expression of faith.

Someone, I have forgotten who commented the Calvinism of Spurgeon was a 'modified Calvinism' unlike the rigid type some express today. BTW Didn't he invite D.L. Moody pretty much a non-Calvinist to preach?

255

News Item8/16/14 12:44 PM
Interested  Find all comments by Interested
James Thomas wrote:
For Example:
Mr. MacAurther is Premil
Mr. Baucham is Amill
Dr. R. C. Sproul is Post mill
All I would say are Christians. All have a different view. They all cannot be right. But that should not cause me to have disregard for their understanding but yet yearn to ask questions to see why they see it that way.
I hope this answers your question.
You take an easy example. What about those whom you would label Arminian. Are they saved?
254

News Item8/16/14 12:12 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
Mr. Hranek,

Romans 14:1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.

Romans 14:4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

There is a principle that we are taught here that I believe we are to use to govern our thoughts towards those who don't agree with all that we believe or see.

One may have the opinion of disregard for Reformed theology but that does not shipwreck faith. It can cause some misunderstanding depending on what view one takes which leads to error...but each will say the Holy Spirit has lead them to their belief.

With that I allow Romans 14:14-15 to govern me and not cause my brother to stumble. I know the subject is food but the principle taught can allow for some minor disagreement in understanding Scripture.

For Example:
Mr. MacAurther is Premil
Mr. Baucham is Amill
Dr. R. C. Sproul is Post mill

All I would say are Christians. All have a different view. They all cannot be right. But that should not cause me to have disregard for their understanding but yet yearn to ask questions to see why they see it that way.

I hope this answers your question.

253

News Item8/15/14 8:12 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
James Thomas wrote:
Mr. Hranek
My point is this. God warns those whom he has chosen to save with instruction to guard against pride...against thinking they were better than another, so they got in. Truth we all know is no one gets in on their own work but only the work of The Lord Jesus Christ. He did it. Not us.
James
Let me ask another question to see if I can better understand where you are coming from.

In your opinion, to you, does one "shipwreck" their faith if they come to disregard(hard to choose the right word) Calvinism or Reformed Theology?

rest is just thoughts-
I understand this question gets into a lot of territory, such as what really is Calvinism (Spurgeon's seems quite different than that of many today), can arminians be saved in their errorsome and imperfect comprehension of the keeping power and faithfulness of Christ? What about dispys? Fundamentalist? Pentecostals?

Does one have to be ... say KJV Only or will the use of other translations shipwreck their faith

I hope you understand, you have touched on the Sovereignty of God in salvation, so it brings into consideration sanctification, one's prayer life, our witness...what should that be? how? in what kind of attitude?

252
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