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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA News
FRONT PAGE  |  6/2/2015
THURSDAY, JUL 24, 2014  |  166 comments
130 Environmental Groups Call For An End To Capitalism
Environmentalists have declared that global warming can’t be stopped without ending the “hegemonic capitalist system,” saying that cap-and-trade systems and conservation efforts are “false solutions.”

“The structural causes of climate change are linked to the current capitalist hegemonic system,” reads the final draft of the Margarita Declaration, presented at a conference including about 130 environmental groups.

“To combat climate change it is necessary to change the system,” the declaration adds. ...


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
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· Page 1 ·  Found: 166 user comment(s)
News Item8/6/14 2:10 PM
James Thomas  Find all comments by James Thomas
Huh wrote:
See James this is why you or anyone else can't just throw out Bible verses as "proof" because none of the verses you quoted say that God predetermines the action of everyman, nobody is saying God doesn't work in circumstances and individuals to specifically work His will, like the virgin birth for instance, what no verse says is that God foreordains every action of every person and you can't produce one in your response, it will always be a specific person, people or circumstance.
Book of Isaiah 45:7

I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things.

166

News Item8/6/14 10:32 AM
Huh  Find all comments by Huh
James Thomas wrote:
Sorry to you "huh" for not responding to your question. Let me attempt to do as
.
See James this is why you or anyone else can't just throw out Bible verses as "proof" because none of the verses you quoted say that God predetermines the action of everyman, nobody is saying God doesn't work in circumstances and individuals to specifically work His will, like the virgin birth for instance, what no verse says is that God foreordains every action of every person and you can't produce one in your response, it will always be a specific person, people or circumstance.
165

News Item8/6/14 10:02 AM
Cyclist  Find all comments by Cyclist
Mike wrote:
The tree
If God did not ordain (WCF 3/1) that sin should exist in man - Then who besides God was creating in the foundation of the world and man?

1st Cause - God plants the tree of knowledge of good and evil. God commands Adam not to eat of this tree.

2nd Cause - Adam makes a choice and disobeys - original sin.

God planted the tree with two possible alternatives of knowledge. BOTH alternatives which must have been available to the newly created mortal.

Man did not create the tree nor could he have had the knowledge or its consequences in man's future - until he exercised his choice.

Man was created by God to have choice - therefore the potential to choose either way was provided (created) by God in Adam.

Question
Did God create in Adam
(1) The potential for sin?
OR
(2) The potential for choice?

BTW: If God did not create the potential in man for sin - then how does sin exist?

NB: The potential for choice in man today is directly influenced by sin in man when he is in his natural estate.

164

News Item8/5/14 5:02 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
huh wrote:
Maybe you can explain how what you are doing is any different
Sorry to you "huh" for not responding to your question. Let me attempt to do as
you asked.
I will present a few verses which God speaks for Himself and how He works in all things regarding His creation.
Isaiah 10
Ah, Assyria, the rod of my anger;the staff in their hands is my fury!
Isaiah 10:5

But he does not so intend,
and his heart does not so think;but it is in his heart to destroy,and to cut off nations not a few;Isaiah 10:7
Genesis 50:20
As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.
Numbers 22-25
And God came to Balaam at night and said to him, “If the men have come to call you, rise, go with them; but only do what I tell you.”
Numbers 22:20

But God's anger was kindled because he went, and the angel of the LORD took his stand in the way as his adversary.
Numbers 22:22
God said to Balaam, “You shall not go with them. You shall not curse the people, for they are blessed.”
Numbers 22:12

A prayer lead read will reveal God and His character without any logic of man interfering as that only serves to distort the Awesome Holy God we serve.

163

News Item8/5/14 3:30 PM
In the know  Find all comments by In the know
Rds wrote:
As Jesus points out in Matthew 7:21-23 many who think they believe are not the Elect. Denominations such as Anglican, Roman Catholic and other Free will Arminians do not have the true faith which is the gift of God and HE only provides it to the Elect. How you discern the true Elect is from your position as one of the Elect.
The Elect have the indwelling Holy Spirit within, and .....
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:
In other words, unless someone agrees with your theology, crossing the same Ts and dotting the same Is as you, then they are not true believers. Way to go saint hyperman! You are pathetic!
162

News Item8/5/14 12:25 PM
Rds  Find all comments by Rds
In the know wrote:
All who believe are the elect. So, how is it that not all believers agree with your theology, if all the elect know?!
As Jesus points out in Matthew 7:21-23 many who think they believe are not the Elect. Denominations such as Anglican, Roman Catholic and other Free will Arminians do not have the true faith which is the gift of God and HE only provides it to the Elect. How you discern the true Elect is from your position as one of the Elect.
The Elect have the indwelling Holy Spirit within, and .....
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:
161

News Item8/4/14 4:23 PM
In the know  Find all comments by In the know
Rds wrote:
Don't worry!
The Elect know.
All who believe are the elect. So, how is it that not all believers agree with your theology, if all the elect know?!
160

News Item8/4/14 2:25 PM
Rds  Find all comments by Rds
same old same old wrote:
Answers with a post of a covenant not found in the Bible uses a set of decrees at a council before the foundation of the world that he cannot prove happened, that he somehow is privy to what was said and how it was said and ends with a fallible document made by fallible man.
No credibility here, just idolatrous worship of the WCF putting it above the Scriptures.
Don't worry!
The Elect know.
159

News Item8/4/14 11:47 AM
same old same old  Find all comments by same old same old
Cyclist wrote:
The potential to make this choice was created in man by God..
Answers with a post of a covenant not found in the Bible uses a set of decrees at a council before the foundation of the world that he cannot prove happened, that he somehow is privy to what was said and how it was said and ends with a fallible document made by fallible man.

No credibility here, just idolatrous worship of the WCF putting it above the Scriptures.

158

News Item8/4/14 11:09 AM
Cyclist  Find all comments by Cyclist
Mike wrote:
The tree: God ordained that Adam should be able to choose. Otherwise the tree would not have been there. God did *not* ordain(by the definitions you have provided) that Adam choose wrongly, he commanded him NOT to eat of it, but allowed him to do it. "Ordain" and "allow" are not synonyms. Therefore God does not ordain "whatsoever comes to pass," nor did he ordain sin.
Gen 2:16,17; Rom 5:12
The potential to make this choice was created in man by God.
The Tree - Held two potential directions for Adam to go - (1) good (2) evil. Again this was created by God not just as a tree but and the way forward for man to go.
Christ's ultimate death upon the cross was foreknown by God and the reason for it was foreknown by God. HE is omniscient as well as omnipotent.

The Covenant of Redemption was pre-planned and known by God, Christ and the Holy Spirit.

Mike do not underestimate the FORE-knowledge of God before the foundation of the world.

God planting tree = 1st cause.
Adam and Eve's choice = 2nd cause.

WCF 3/1B "yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established."

157

News Item8/1/14 3:58 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
Mike,
Thank you for the reply.
I follow what you are saying.
The thing is we are only privy to the revealed word of Scripture. Not the secret things of the Lord.
He didn't give orders to Adam to eat but yet he did eat. So we can say it went against God's decree or for it.
I do not see Scripture declaring any limit on God and His will. His decree from the end to the beginning for all things are not fully disclosed to us.
Though I see many Scriptures showing how God (permits\allows\decrees) man to sin...you meant evil but God meant it for good. Gen 50:20, Isaiah 10...

How would you define ordain?

156

News Item8/1/14 3:13 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Cyclist, you might find http://vimeo.com/65463329 (Calvin's Wayward Children (Video) interesting to watch. Calvin was really a supporter of Amyraldism (Four point Calvinism).

I will appologize to anyone who has posted these before, but then with so many messages off topic, I'm not going to sort through all the messages on this thread, so, http://thefederalist.com/2014/01/13/if-you-think-communism-is-bad-for-people-check-out-what-it-did-to-the-environment/ (If You Think Communism Is Bad For People, Check Out What It Did To The Environment). Or for that matter, our good buddies, the Communist Chinese, and from a source friendly to Socialism, this might really give a laugh, http://www.socialismtoday.org/170/china.html (China’s pollution overload).

155

News Item8/1/14 1:12 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
James Thomas wrote:
What would be the definition and\or synonyms of the word "ordain" (other than what cyclist provided)in your conclusion?
The definitions Cyclist gave:

Ordain: - means
2. to enact or establish by law, edict, etc
3. to decree; give orders for

My conclusion based on them:

Adam was not given orders that he should eat of the tree, nor was it decreed that he do so. He was, however, given orders to not eat of it, which is quite opposite.

It is the circumstances of the incident were ordained, i.e. the garden, the tree, were established by God; the serpent allowed to tempt Eve. On the other hand, Adam's disobedience was not so ordered, as that would place God in contradiction with himself, with him both ordering obedience and disobedience simultaneously. Of course God, being omniscient, knew what Adam would do, which changes not that Adam was free to do it.

154

News Item8/1/14 7:40 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Hi Chris
You can find it at 7/30/14 12.38pm on this thread.

You'll have to imagine the facial expressions showing hatred of true doctrine.

153

News Item7/31/14 7:09 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’ (Isaiah 46:9-10 ESV)
(His counsel Holy\Sinless\perfect is not dependent on the choice of a finite man.)
So why give choices when they dont matter? Thing is they do matter...Because God commands you...not because he is depending on you for the outcome of His will.
Remember when you were 5 years old and your father told you to do something and you asked "why?" and he responded "BECAUSE I TOLD YOU SO!" well...God is the Father...we are to be the 5 year old like:
Luke 18:17
Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.”
God has declared the “end from the beginning”, I’m not sure what that leaves out for God to not purpose. We can read in Gen 50:20 and Acts 4:27-28 wherein we’re told that even the evil men committed against Christ and Joseph were foreordained by God for His purposes.
What random event happened that even God was unaware of or hadn’t purposed?
152

News Item7/31/14 6:35 PM
To answer your question  Find all comments by To answer your question
Cyclist wrote:
Isn't Calvinism wonderful.
Nope. Our Saviour is wonderful. The Father is wonderful. The Spirit is wonderful. His Word is Wonderful. Sins paid for and forgiven is wonderful. Fellowship with the saints is wonderful.

Calvinism, on the other hand, is the flawed doctrine of man. It has good points and it has bad points. You idolize it too much to see the problems it has. Repent and fall in love with the Lord instead of Calvinism.

Revelation 2

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works...

151

News Item7/31/14 5:21 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
Mike wrote:
The tree: God ordained that Adam should be able to choose. Otherwise the tree would not have been there. God did *not* ordain(by the definitions you have provided) that Adam choose wrongly, he commanded him NOT to eat of it, but allowed him to do it. "Ordain" and "allow" are not synonyms. Therefore God does not ordain "whatsoever comes to pass," nor did he ordain sin.
Gen 2:16,17; Rom 5:12
What would be the definition and\or synonyms of the word "ordain" (other than what cyclist provided)in your conclusion?
150

News Item7/31/14 4:07 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Cyclist wrote:
God "allowed" sin to become a part of the life of man. The tree of the "knowledge of good and evil" makes this point. Two knowledge areas "good" and "evil."
As God states in Jeremiah 14:14 HE did not send the sinful liars of false prophets but first cause HE did allow sinners to exist on this planet. What God is saying in this verse is that HE denies responsibility for the false prophets.
God also denies responsibility for false religions such as RCC, JW, Islam, Arminian, Free willer and self salvationists who believe that faith is a human faculty.
But HE allows them to exist under the domain of sin as children of wrath.(Eph 2:3).
God allows sin to exist... Without God's ordaining sin it would never have existed.
Ordain: - means
2. to enact or establish by law, edict, etc
3. to decree; give orders for
The tree: God ordained that Adam should be able to choose. Otherwise the tree would not have been there. God did *not* ordain(by the definitions you have provided) that Adam choose wrongly, he commanded him NOT to eat of it, but allowed him to do it. "Ordain" and "allow" are not synonyms. Therefore God does not ordain "whatsoever comes to pass," nor did he ordain sin.

Gen 2:16,17; Rom 5:12

149

News Item7/31/14 3:12 PM
Cyclist  Find all comments by Cyclist
Mike wrote:
Here's another, for WCF folks who say God ordains whatsoever comes to pass to ponder:
Jeremiah 14:14
"Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: ...."
God "allowed" sin to become a part of the life of man. The tree of the "knowledge of good and evil" makes this point. Two knowledge areas "good" and "evil."
As God states in Jeremiah 14:14 HE did not send the sinful liars of false prophets but first cause HE did allow sinners to exist on this planet. What God is saying in this verse is that HE denies responsibility for the false prophets.

God also denies responsibility for false religions such as RCC, JW, Islam, Arminian, Free willer and self salvationists who believe that faith is a human faculty.
But HE allows them to exist under the domain of sin as children of wrath.(Eph 2:3).

God allows sin to exist blinding man and making man ignorant. But they are alienated from the life of God. Without God's ordaining sin it would never have existed.

Ordain: - means
2. to enact or establish by law, edict, etc
3. to decree; give orders for

148

News Item7/31/14 4:22 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
James Thomas wrote:
I know the previous verses says he does provide choices.
So if Scripture says both...we believe both and lean not on our understanding...
and give the Glory to God!
Thanks James, yes indeed, scripture says both, and therefore the writers of the wcf were leaning on their own understanding when they wrote the statement some of us are disagreeing with.
147
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