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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  12/20/2014
WEDNESDAY, JUL 23, 2014  |  247 comments  |  1 commentary
Patheos: Calvinism = Wahhabism?

.Analogies between the European Reformation and contemporary Islamism are much closer than many Protestants would like to admit.

Noyes compares Calvin closely to Ibn Abd al-Wahhab, the founder of the Wahhabi movement that so often features, unflatteringly, in our headlines. Al-Wahhab (1703-92) was also a near-exact contemporary of John Wesley (1703-91), a fact that cries out for a comparative dual biography!

Like Calvinism, Wahhabi Islam urged the destruction of everything that could be seen as a later accretion to the core of the religion, as well as all manifestations of paganism or idolatry. Since the 1920s, this version of the faith has been the official creed of Saudi Arabia, and variants of it are found among Islam’s violent and extreme movements. ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 247 user comment(s)
News Item7/29/14 7:24 PM
Dorcas | USA  Find all comments by Dorcas
Christopher, pennned,& s c....
247

News Item7/29/14 7:16 PM
s c | Oh  Find all comments by s c
Christopher wrote:" or...guardian angels forever near with swords drawn. Anyway, salvation isn't like getting a trophy or gaining membership to some club, but rather, something so fantastic that we can't possibly do any description justice with our finite minds, or begin to fully comprehend it."

I noticed that you frequently will give vivid illustrations..it's always a treat.
And pen, I can also relate to what you said in regards to Christians' spirits bearing witness with one another without having met. The gift of salvation is unfathomable...that God would so love us.

246

News Item7/29/14 4:51 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Christopher000 wrote:
I agree about the golf.club part, John. Being finite beings and restricted to the material, it's all we know, and all we can comprehend. When we say we have been born again, I'm not sure we understand how fantastic that really is or how we have been set apart, to the point that the divide is recognizable in the spirit world. There's something different about us; something that Satan and his angels can see when they pass by. Something that limits their activity and causes rage against God because we are recognized as His own. I always wondered if it is a specific aural color that the saved emit, or maybe the Holy Spirit is visible within, or...guardian angels forever near with swords drawn. Anyway, salvation isn't like getting a trophy or gaining membership to some club, but rather, something so fantastic that we can't possibly do any description justice with our finite minds, or begin to fully comprehend it.
Really, really interesting points, Christopher. I can't think of any scriptural proofs, but yes, it all makes sense, because spiritual beings can see other spiritual beings, whereas we can't.
245

News Item7/29/14 3:21 PM
Corinthians  Find all comments by Corinthians
John UK wrote:
Well of course a saved person is saved from the future wrath, he could hardly be saved from something that isn't here yet.
2Cor 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
244

News Item7/29/14 3:16 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=3714128144(
God's Provision For All to Be Saved)
most of the summary of which, "...the ministry of the Gospel and the responsibility to pray as concerns God's saving work through the message is being elaborated. God desires for all people to be saved but no one is willing to nor can apart from God's grace and hearing the message of the Gospel. There is only one God and only one way of being saved and that is by faith in God who is the Savior of all. The provision for salvation has been made by Christ whose death was sufficient to save all but must be personally appropriated by each individual by faith to be effective for each individual's salvation. This faith must be in and only in the person and work of Jesus Christ who is the only qualified Mediator between God and man, being Himself God and man."

As far as Paul is concerned I would say his conversion happened on the road to Damascus, because he was addressed as "brother," by Ananias in Damascus and this was also before Saul/Paul was baptized, Acts 9:1-19 and Acts 22:6-16.

243

News Item7/29/14 9:22 AM
pennnned  Find all comments by pennnned
Christopher, what a way to start out the day, remembering what an extravagant gift is salvation! I don't know if you have had this experience, but in travels I've met people of totally different places of different languages, and we both knew the other was a Christian without saying a word.
242

News Item7/29/14 6:52 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
John You Kay Wrote:
Penny, I believe there is a great deal of mystery and awe about the salvation of any sinner. It is a most wonderful thing, and not to be lightly spoken of. Some talk as if it were no more than like joining a golf club.

I agree about the golf.club part, John. Being finite beings and restricted to the material, it's all we know, and all we can comprehend. When we say we have been born again, I'm not sure we understand how fantastic that really is or how we have been set apart, to the point that the divide is recognizable in the spirit world. There's something different about us; something that Satan and his angels can see when they pass by. Something that limits their activity and causes rage against God because we are recognized as His own. I always wondered if it is a specific aural color that the saved emit, or maybe the Holy Spirit is visible within, or...guardian angels forever near with swords drawn. Anyway, salvation isn't like getting a trophy or gaining membership to some club, but rather, something so fantastic that we can't possibly do any description justice with our finite minds, or begin to fully comprehend it.

241

News Item7/29/14 1:33 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
And John pondered all these things in his heart.

Thanks brethren for all the posts. I'm out all day today trying to sell my paintings at market, but I'll check in later on tonight. Last week the Lord gave me opportunity to give my testimony to a couple who also have a stall at market and are there every week. Please pray the Lord will open their eyes and that they might ask more questions about "so great salvation", which they have so far neglected. I am in the midst of about forty others who know not the Lord, and thankfully have one other Christian to have fellowship with, so please pray for us, that we may be light in a dark place, just as the Lord leads.

240

News Item7/28/14 10:18 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
John UK wrote:
Well of course a saved person is saved from the future wrath, he could hardly be saved from something that isn't here yet.
Paul wasn't talking about just anyone at any time, John. He was talking about himself and those he was writing to at that exact point in time.... the same time "the wrath of God is (present tense) revealed from heaven" (Rom 1:18). That's the wrath Paul is talking about being saved from.

But I'll relent. You're a brother, we use the same bible, so you can decide for yourself if Paul was talking about being saved from the then present wrath or their future glorification according to Reidhead's rendition.

"4) The Future Tense: I shall be saved, from the presence of sin ... glorification."

James Thomas wrote:
Reading the next two verses validates what you are saying about Romans 5:9. The same melodic flow of "what was" being compared to "what is, and what will be".

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. (Romans 5:10-11 )

Thanks, James. Much appreciated.
239

News Item7/28/14 7:19 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
John UK wrote:
Just downloaded the pdf, bro. And hey!
quote:
The word salvation is an immense word. When you trace it through the New Testament you will find that there are actually four tenses of salvation.
Quite so brother John
and I believe it is safe to say all of this is intimately interrelated to being born again of the Holy Spirit, regenerated, for the child of God

As a side bar to these 4 tenses, I have encountered Knights of Columbus trained Roman Catholics who are taught to say these four things about their salvation...but what is glaringly lacking in their testimony and "scholarship" about salvation is the absence of being born again of the Holy Spirit

Consequently although they can and often do play word games about 'being saved' with evangelicals and protestants, using to be sure the right Bible words, they don't know what it is to actually "be Saved" because they do not have the new birth (John 3; 2 Cor 5:17)

I hope you appreciate they don't trust Jesus but essentially Mary, etc. etc. for their salvation

BACK TO PARIS REIDHEAD

His application to all this in his sermon, that Jesus didn't die to send us salvation but to become our Salvation

Is that we would be His bond-slaves forever

238

News Item7/28/14 6:16 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Michael Hranek wrote:
from Paris Reidheads sermon So Great Salvation that is wonderfully clear about the salvation we have in Christ
Just downloaded the pdf, bro. And hey!

quote:
The word salvation is an immense word. When you trace it through the New Testament you will find that there are actually four tenses of salvation.
1) The Present Perfect Tense: I have been saved, from the pleasure of sin .. repentance,
2) The Past Tense: I was saved, from the penalty of sin .. justification,
3) Present Continuous Tense: I am being saved, from the power of sin ... sanctification
4) The Future Tense: I shall be saved, from the presence of sin ... glorification.

If someone questions, "Are you saved?" it would be quite in order for you to say, "How do you mean it: I was saved, I have been saved, I am being saved, or I shall be saved."

The word "saved" has been usually compressed by most of us to be equivalent to forgiveness, but in the Bible the meaning is far more inclusive than just pardoned. In Romans 13:11 the Apostle Paul says, "for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed." If He has saved us by His death, how much more shall we be saved by His life?
unquote:

237

News Item7/28/14 5:23 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
John for JESUS wrote:
Born again believers are saved, but they will not inherit their salvation until Jesus returns. Salvation means someone is being saved from something. I believe we are saved from the eternal death that unbelievers will be punished with. Regeneration means someone is being brought to life. I believe this is talking about a believers spirit being brought from death to eternal life by the washing of regeneration by the Holy Spirit. Believers will be receive salvation because they have been regenerated.
John 4
YouTube has a powerful clip (7:53) Come... and He will set you Free! taken from Paris Reidheads sermon So Great Salvation that is wonderfully clear about the salvation we have in Christ

I hope you watch the clip, again if needs be and also as you are able listen this wonderful Brother Paris Reidhead

236

News Item7/28/14 4:41 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
question wrote:
Do you mean that you believe that some 'born again' sinners are NOT saved?
Is regeneration any part of salvation?
Born again believers are saved, but they will not inherit their salvation until Jesus returns. Salvation means someone is being saved from something. I believe we are saved from the eternal death that unbelievers will be punished with. Regeneration means someone is being brought to life. I believe this is talking about a believers spirit being brought from death to eternal life by the washing of regeneration by the Holy Spirit. Believers will be receive salvation because they have been regenerated.
235

News Item7/28/14 3:52 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Michael Hranek wrote:
..to play word games with salvation, can sabotage, sidetrack or distract what a child of God has in Christ
and perhaps by some be abused into attempting to take them captive with somekind of "religious philosophy" like circumcisiom, speaking in tongues, King James Onlyism or hyper...
Quite so bro, fully agreed. I fear for some of them

1 John 3:4-10 KJV
(4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
(5) And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
(6) Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
(7) Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
(8) He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
(9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
(10) In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

234

News Item7/28/14 3:46 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
John UK wrote:
Well of course a saved person is saved from the future wrath, he could hardly be saved from something that isn't here yet.
John UK
I sure wish people won't play word games with salvation. Is there a future aspect to finally having the fulness of what Jesus Christ has for us? Certainly. But to alienate that from regeneration (being born again) is ridiculous. Jesus told us that, 'Ye must be born again.' Why? Because without the new birth
1. you are not fit for heaven you would still have your old fallen nature in enmity against God
2. you couldn't even see the kingdom
3. you couldn't enter the kingdom (relates to the first one)

maybe others might word this differently
But again to play word games with salvation, can sabotage, sidetrack or distract what a child of God has in Christ

and perhaps by some be abused into attempting to take them captive with somekind of "religious philosophy" like circumcisiom, speaking in tongues, King James Onlyism or hyper(?) Calvinism

Spurgeon and Whitefield (both Calvinists) (the Wesleys and DL Moody too) don't seem to play intellectual words games in their ministries and it likely it is better if we don't either

BTW 1 John 5:13 in context of course

233

News Item7/28/14 3:36 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
J4J said: through our faith.

Hebrews 11:1 God's definition of faith.
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
HOW TO FIND THE SOURCE OF FAITH...
1.When you were born, were you there? YES
2.Do you have any memories from your own conscience? NO
3.Is she your real mom? YES
4.How do you know?You answer... A.As long as I can remember she has been telling me. B.Dad says she is. C. Siblings say so. so witness testimony.
any other proof? Birth certificate and pictures. so physical evidence.
5.We do not realize it but we have FAITH in believing what mom,dad,doctor, and a picture shows. On witness accounts and physical evidence.
conclusion: THE source of your FAITH in that she is your mom is NOT you but from who you received the information from.
This helped me understand what faith is...I hope it may help another.

232

News Item7/28/14 3:19 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Dd wrote:
John. You are not into Wesley's perfectionism are you?
NB: Romans 7:14ff
Are you claiming that you have not been saved from the things I mentioned?

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

231

News Item7/28/14 3:14 PM
Dd  Find all comments by Dd
John UK wrote:
But what I'm saying bro is that we are saved right here and now from the devil, we are saved from living in a dead state, we are made right with God immediately (justified), we are saved from living a sinful and destructive lifestyle, many of us are saved from death, we are saved from our enslavement to Satan. Paul was saved from killing yet more Christians, Christians were saved from being killed by Paul, we are delivered from the power of the world, the flesh and the devil.
John. You are not into Wesley's perfectionism are you?
NB: Romans 7:14ff
230

News Item7/28/14 3:13 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
Lurker,

Reading the next two verses validates what you are saying about Romans 5:9. The same melodic flow of "what was" being compared to "what is, and what will be".

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

(Romans 5:10-11 )

This structure, like a musical symphony is so prevalent through the Scriptures to the point in which it only reveals itself only when humbly read.

229

News Item7/28/14 3:07 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
John for JESUS wrote:
Lurker...
For the record, I don't equate regeneration with salvation. Salvation is being saved from the wrath of God and the judgement of God. The term regeneration is used once and in the verse speaks of the washing of regeneration by the Holy Spirit. I believe that means the Holy Spirit in dwells believers, placing them in Christ which makes them righteous before God and results in their eventual salvation which they now have in Christ.
That's good to know. If I misunderstood you I apologize. I'll have to go back and check out your posts tonight to see what happened.

. . .

John bro,

Along with my last comment and Rom 5:9, keep in mind Rom 1:18, a present reality when Paul penned his letter to the Romans. That's what he and his fellows looked forward to being saved from.

Gotta go till tonight....sorry.

228
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