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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  9/20/2014
MONDAY, JUL 7, 2014  |  160 comments  |  1 commentary
Parini: Even Jesus wouldn't buy 'the rapture'

But what about the theology behind this industry?

The rapture notion goes like this: Jesus is coming back, and when he does, he will first return before a time of so-called tribulation begins, calling up into the clouds with him those who are "saved." Horrible suffering will then occur on the miserable Earth for seven years. Then Jesus will come yet again, for a final judging. There are many different versions of this scenario, so it's difficult to summarize. It's fair to say, however, that only fundamentalist [dispensationalist] Protestant churches bother to think about the rapture at all. (Catholics discount the idea completely.)

The rapture concept is relatively new. It started with an Anglo-Irish theologian, who in the 1830s invented the concept. This may come as a shocker to many, but it's a fact: Before John Nelson Darby imagined this scenario in the clouds, no Christian had ever heard of ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 160 user comment(s)
News Item7/18/14 5:35 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Lurker wrote:
The world is an ugly place to live in these days; on so many different fronts. Can't be a Christian without wondering how long before Jesus rises up in fury and says.... Enough!
We need to encourage each other with the unvarnished Biblical truth.... not comforting tales like a pre-trib rapture.
There is so much biblical truth that has an impact on our end times view that gets no attention or mention. I think I'll put together another study, building on the previous one.... perhaps tomorrow night.
Good on yer bro. And if Jesus is going to come as a "thief in the night", to usher in eternity, I rather think that means he will be unexpected, a sudden event.

I guess it's true to say that the OT Jews studied the scriptures and yet did not comprehend when the Messiah they were waiting for actually arrived to accomplish the work he was sent to do. Even the disciples who believed he was Christ imagined a political conclusion from a Deliverer. They even thought their hopes were dashed after The Cross. But the coming of the Spirit at Pentecost sorted out their fuzzled thinking.

160

News Item7/17/14 11:59 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
John UK wrote:
Thanks Lurker for your encouraging words. At this point in my pilgrimage, I am looking to the skies and listening for the sound of a great trumpet blast, which will herald the end of the world and an ushering to judgment for all, as the angels gather men together, but separated as sheep and goats.
Those unsaved need to think seriously about their eternal destination, and not let one more day go past without calling upon the name of the Lord, repenting of sin and unbelief, and wholly trusting themselves to the safekeeping of the Good Shepherd, who says to them, "Him that cometh to me, I will in no wise cast out."
Today is the day of salvation, now is the accepted time, the day of grace is almost over, the door getting ready to be shut.
The world is an ugly place to live in these days; on so many different fronts. Can't be a Christian without wondering how long before Jesus rises up in fury and says.... Enough!

We need to encourage each other with the unvarnished Biblical truth.... not comforting tales like a pre-trib rapture.

There is so much biblical truth that has an impact on our end times view that gets no attention or mention. I think I'll put together another study, building on the previous one.... perhaps tomorrow night.

159

News Item7/17/14 1:09 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Thanks Lurker for your encouraging words. At this point in my pilgrimage, I am looking to the skies and listening for the sound of a great trumpet blast, which will herald the end of the world and an ushering to judgment for all, as the angels gather men together, but separated as sheep and goats.

Those unsaved need to think seriously about their eternal destination, and not let one more day go past without calling upon the name of the Lord, repenting of sin and unbelief, and wholly trusting themselves to the safekeeping of the Good Shepherd, who says to them, "Him that cometh to me, I will in no wise cast out."

Today is the day of salvation, now is the accepted time, the day of grace is almost over, the door getting ready to be shut.

158

News Item7/17/14 12:16 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
John UK wrote:
1) What do you think to this then, bro. If Jesus was granted "all authority" in heaven and in earth, at his resurrection, then logically the devil has been given no authority.

2) Is he bound already? In that sense. We know he goes about with some freedom, but he has no power or authority in this world.

3) Am I clutching at straws? And perhaps is there really a time coming when he will be taken completely off the scene. I keep an open mind on this subject, and find it one of the hardest to grapple with.

1) Sounds reasonable, John. Doesn't mean he's powerless in this world... just that he doesn't have free reign. And, of course, he is rendered powerless in God's holy mountain, which we are.

2) Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. That happened when the disciples were called by a new name.... Christians.

3) No, I don't think you're clutching at straws. Eschatology doesn't come easy to everyone but you have an advantage over many in that you have an open mind and that you really do hold the bible as the final word. As we both know well, that isn't always the case.

Anyway, what I wanted to demonstrate is the value of letting the bible determine the timeline of prophetic fulfillment.

157

News Item7/16/14 10:20 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
The sands of time are sinking, the dawn of Heaven breaks;
The summer morn I’ve sighed for—the fair, sweet morn awakes:
Dark, dark hath been the midnight, but dayspring is at hand,
And glory, glory dwelleth in Immanuel’s land.

O Christ, He is the fountain, the deep, sweet well of love!
The streams of earth I’ve tasted more deep I’ll drink above:
There to an ocean fullness His mercy doth expand,
And glory, glory dwelleth in Immanuel’s land.

The King there in His beauty, without a veil is seen:
It were a well spent journey, though seven deaths lay between:
The Lamb with His fair army, doth on Mount Zion stand,
And glory—glory dwelleth in Immanuel’s land.

O I am my Beloved’s and my Beloved’s mine!
He brings a poor vile sinner into His “house of wine.”
I stand upon His merit—I know no other stand,
Not even where glory dwelleth in Immanuel’s land.

The Bride eyes not her garment, but her dear Bridegroom’s face;
I will not gaze at glory but on my King of grace.
Not at the crown He giveth but on His pierced hand;
The Lamb is all the glory of Immanuel’s land.

156

News Item7/16/14 8:19 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
penned wrote:
"Now is the judgment of this world: ....
sorry about the loss of your friend. But you are correct we rejoice that they are cancer and suffering free. We rejoice in their passage into glory and they are in a state of eternal bliss, no more sorrow, suffering, sin, separation, or sickness. We love them enough to know they are in the best spot and it is we who are still in a pilgrimage to the land of eternal blessedness. That of course does not mean we don't miss them, the loss is on our side, the gain is on theirs. We need to grieve their passing but rejoice with those who rejoice and it should gladden our hearts that they have finished their course and by God's grace we will join them one day when we lay our armor down and go to our eternal reward
155

News Item7/16/14 4:20 PM
pennned  Find all comments by pennned
John UK wrote:
For me, bro, there is no doubt in my mind that the devil and his devils are very much active in this world, and that spiritual warfare is constant and unremitting, hence the need to understand our weaponry and the means to defeat our enemy. If folks have never read "this kind cometh not out but by prayer and fasting", they should supplement their Bible reading with the Weapon-Masters Bible, otherwise known as the King James Bible.
exactly.

and the devil is bound by the gospel, which is our victory.

so that the gospel may go to the nations.

154

News Item7/16/14 4:05 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
If the devil is fully bound, why do we have verse that admonishes us to be sober and vigilant for our adversary the devil walks about as a roaring lion seeking who he may devour?
If he is fully bound, why does James remind us to resist (an already bound foe) and he will flee (how could he if he is bound).
For me, bro, there is no doubt in my mind that the devil and his devils are very much active in this world, and that spiritual warfare is constant and unremitting, hence the need to understand our weaponry and the means to defeat our enemy. If folks have never read "this kind cometh not out but by prayer and fasting", they should supplement their Bible reading with the Weapon-Masters Bible, otherwise known as the King James Bible.
153

News Item7/16/14 4:04 PM
SteveR | Mt Zion  Find all comments by SteveR
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
Ok SteveR, you have opened this discussion, I hope you don't mind if I join. Just wondering your response here please. If the devil is fully bound, why do we have verse that admonishes us to be sober and vigilant for our adversary the devil walks about as a roaring lion seeking who he may devour?
If he is fully bound, why does James remind us to resist (an already bound foe) and he will flee (how could he if he is bound).
Thanks for your response.
As you have probably noticed, I dont hold to all the doctrines taught in the Reformed Church. This is one where I would not agree with fully bound, but I understand the argument of the current limitations of the devils authority. Thus I encouraged Logger to examine all the evidence available from centuries of analysis on Matt 12
152

News Item7/16/14 3:40 PM
penned  Find all comments by penned
"Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out." John 12:31

"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage" Hebrews 2:14-15

what is lacking today in our churches is resurrection teaching and we've become ashamed of eternal things. when a Christian is beheaded all we see is evil, we do not see their victory. This is the heavenly perspective and the purpose of Revelations. If we see only through our temporal, wordly losses we will surely be downtrodden. This is what it means to count the cost. As Strat was saying in another post, when a loved one passes on, what matters is they've made it. We recently lost a friend to cancer. He is in heaven today and I rejoice with him. Amen. as 1 cor 15 describes, if there is no resurrection we are the most to be pitied.

151

News Item7/16/14 3:10 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
SteveR wrote:
two things
1) Sin and death were BOTH conquered at the Cross
2) Look up studies, commentaries and sermons on Matt 12:29. You will receive a range of understanding on the extent Satan is considered bound. Some will say only as much as the early chapters of Job demonstrate, others(like my Church) will say Satan is now fully bound
Ok SteveR, you have opened this discussion, I hope you don't mind if I join. Just wondering your response here please. If the devil is fully bound, why do we have verse that admonishes us to be sober and vigilant for our adversary the devil walks about as a roaring lion seeking who he may devour?

If he is fully bound, why does James remind us to resist (an already bound foe) and he will flee (how could he if he is bound).

Thanks for your response.

150

News Item7/16/14 1:41 PM
SteveR | Mt Zion  Find all comments by SteveR
James Thomas wrote:
A Read through 1 Corinthians 15 reveals some interesting truths to the possibilities of "where are we now" in the sequence of events.
verse 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him.
1. The "He" in He must reign is Jesus Christ.
2. God has put(already happened)all things in subjection under Him.
3. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. Only one last enemy. Satan was defeated on the cross.
Can we say Satan has been loosed for awhile at present?
God permits his actions as judgments against those dead in their sin and to prune those who are dead to sin.
two things
1) Sin and death were BOTH conquered at the Cross
2) Look up studies, commentaries and sermons on Matt 12:29. You will receive a range of understanding on the extent Satan is considered bound. Some will say only as much as the early chapters of Job demonstrate, others(like my Church) will say Satan is now fully bound
149

News Item7/16/14 11:05 AM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
A Read through 1 Corinthians 15 reveals some interesting truths to the possibilities of "where are we now" in the sequence of events.

verse 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him.

1. The "He" in He must reign is Jesus Christ.
2. God has put(already happened)all things in subjection under Him.
3. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. Only one last enemy. Satan was defeated on the cross.

Can we say Satan has been loosed for awhile at present?
God permits his actions as judgments against those dead in their sin and to prune those who are dead to sin.

148

News Item7/16/14 9:10 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
---
If Jesus was granted "all authority" in heaven and in earth, at his resurrection, then logically the devil has been given no authority. Is he bound already? In that sense. We know he goes about with some freedom, but he has no power or authority in this world.
Am I clutching at straws? And perhaps is there really a time coming when he will be taken completely off the scene. I keep an open mind on this subject, and find it one of the hardest to grapple with.
There are other questions we might ask:

Who is the prince of this world? Does he no longer have the title? Though he has been judicially cast out, is he not yet able to deceive the nations?

Is Jesus today sitting at the right hand of the Father?

Mark 16:19
"So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God."

How long will he be there? Until his enemies are made his footstool.
Acts 2:34,35; Hebrews 1:13, 10:13.

Has this happened yet?

147

News Item7/16/14 8:32 AM
Observer  Find all comments by Observer
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
Observer, brother it always good to hear from you. Thanks for your, and for all the others, very kind comments.
Also, if I am reading you correctly, you are saying my views are holier than than yours
Lol.

I think an English teacher might correct such misuse. Better term would be "Hole-ridden".

Blessings to you and yours bro. Always a pleasure chatting with you.

John UK

Bro., no need to be confused. On this issue Louis Berkhof is very helpful. Good starting place in any event.

146

News Item7/16/14 5:29 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Thanks Lurker, all interesting points.

What do you think to this then, bro. If Jesus was granted "all authority" in heaven and in earth, at his resurrection, then logically the devil has been given no authority. Is he bound already? In that sense. We know he goes about with some freedom, but he has no power or authority in this world.

Am I clutching at straws? And perhaps is there really a time coming when he will be taken completely off the scene. I keep an open mind on this subject, and find it one of the hardest to grapple with.

145

News Item7/15/14 11:37 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Isaiah 11; read along.

Verse 1 thru 5 speaks of He who sits on the white horse of Revelation 19. Note the language of verse Isaiah 11:4 is similar to Rev 19:15. Both point to judgment and the day of the Lord's vengeance.

Verse 6 thru 9 speaks of the peace brought about by the binding of Satan at Revelation 20:1-3. Notice "they shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain" aka Zion; the eternal habitation of God (Ps 132:13-14). It does not imply that Satan is powerless to deceive the heathen.

Verse 11-16 speaks of God gathering the remnant of Israel from their captivity as well as the dispersed of Judah. The words "second time" in verse 11 refers to the exodus from Egypt as the first time meaning the day of the Lord is a time of trial. Those who remain faithful to the end receive the promise and those who fall away perish. As pointed out in another discussion; only those who have been cleansed of sin receive their inheritance when the day of the Lord ends.

The whole chapter is a cohesive thought from the mind of God. Now, compare verse 10 to:

Rom 15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

All was fulfilled beginning with Paul's calling.

144

News Item7/14/14 9:48 AM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Observer wrote:
Thank you to everyone who greeted me back. I'm humbled, as always, by you all. So glad to be part of a loving and gracious family!
John UK, as much as I would love to post here again, at the moment I have too much on my plate and my mind is occupied with other things.
When I posted last, I did not bother reading any of the threads.....just chose the first one I came to to write.
But now I see y'all are still discussing Eschatology. Great topic!
UPS, dear brother, great exhortations! To your comment about holes - some systems have more than others, and I offer my forgiveness to you for holding to one with more holes than mine.
Blessings to y'all!!
Observer, brother it always good to hear from you. Thanks for your, and for all the others, very kind comments.

Also, if I am reading you correctly, you are saying my views are holier than than yours

143

News Item7/14/14 9:22 AM
Observer  Find all comments by Observer
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
To those who have expressed inaccurate views of eschatology (which would be anything different than mine) I offer my forgiveness.
Seriously, as I have spent time studying the subject I have found there a holes in each of the views that cannot be answered.
Thank you to everyone who greeted me back. I'm humbled, as always, by you all. So glad to be part of a loving and gracious family!

John UK, as much as I would love to post here again, at the moment I have too much on my plate and my mind is occupied with other things.

When I posted last, I did not bother reading any of the threads.....just chose the first one I came to to write.

But now I see y'all are still discussing Eschatology. Great topic!

UPS, dear brother, great exortations! To your comment about holes - some systems have more than others, and I offer my forgiveness to you for holding to one with more holes than mine.

Blessings to y'all!!

142

News Item7/13/14 8:39 PM
Elliott ridgway | Babylon  Find all comments by Elliott ridgway
Darby got the pre-trib rapture doctrine from Irving... Who got it from the Jesuit LaCunza...
141
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