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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  10/24/2014
MONDAY, JUN 30, 2014  |  18 comments
Chinese Christians Tearfully Sing Hymn as Church Cross Removed
Christians are vowing to stand firm for Christ amid much persecution by officials in a Chinese province where church buildings continue to be demolished, and where believers in a recent video can be seen bursting into tearful song about the cross and how their sins were washed away by the blood of Jesus while the cross atop their building is forcibly removed.

Within a week after pastors and church members from various congregations wrote objections concerning the ongoing abuse in a published letter to the government in Wenzhou City, which is located in the country’s Zhejiang Province, authorities removed the cross on the roof of Yahui Church in the city.

Church members were also threatened with harm if they talked to the media or petitioned Beijing, according to a report by International Christian Concern (ICC). ...


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
christiannews.net

The Coming Final Persecution
  START  
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COMMENTS | show all | add new  
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· Page 1 ·  Found: 18 user comment(s)
News Item8/8/14 8:47 AM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
18

News Item7/5/14 12:58 AM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Yes, I've come to support term limits on a more universal basis, especially if the influence of lobbyists can't be controlled. However, some say that new office holders depend on lobbyists more rather than less.

Thanks for the article, and I'm surprise of Shaeffer's seeming praise of revivalism and apparent praise of Charles Grandison Finney, a disgusting charlatan. Anyway, I pasted the URL onto a person who I thought would be interested.

17

News Item7/4/14 4:01 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Jim Lincoln wrote:
No, I said Christians should never be involved in politics except as a hobby. Even George Washington officially supported that idea, q.v., http://www.mountvernon.org/educational-resources/encyclopedia/cincinnatus. It wasn't lost on Americans, well until 20th/21st century about the ideal of the General Cincinnatus.
Anyway, from my point of view, a Christian can loam a finger to plug the political dike when it's leaking, but God will determine when the dike will break.
---
No, Washington didn't become president because he thought it might be a nice hobby, but rather he felt it a duty, one which he did in spite of preferring to stay on the farm. Unlike the double-minded who make separation between their claimed faith and their contradictory actions; between what they say they believe, and what they do.

However, it is good to know you would support term limits for politicians, since they aren't all going to be a Cincinnatus or a Washington and limit themselves.

16

News Item7/4/14 3:01 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Yes, good thing you corrected me on the Wikipedia article which should have beem, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Schaeffer, considering I did read the right one, too. No, his son I think one would have a hard time even calling a Christian now? So, the above --should be the correct article.

No, I said Christians should never be involved in politics except as a hobby. Even George Washington officially supported that idea, q.v., http://www.mountvernon.org/educational-resources/encyclopedia/cincinnatus. It wasn't lost on Americans, well until 20th/21st century about the ideal of the General Cincinnatus.

Anyway, from my point of view, a Christian can loam a finger to plug the political dike when it's leaking, but God will determine when the dike will break.

I have heard a lot of Francis A. Schaeffer, and probably had a class that mentioned him prominently sometime, though I couldn't find the reference. I am surprised he mentioned revival he seems to be as confused as others on the meaning of the term, q.v., A Closer Look at Revival and Revival Meetings.

15

News Item7/4/14 7:42 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Jim Lincoln wrote:
Well, Mike of N.Y., I read the sermon the "Christian Manifesto," by Frank Schaeffer. It had what might be considered minor errors in it. The Founding Fathers did stress the Roman-Greco history, because they had seen the tyranny of Catholic controlled countries. They wanted nothing to do with that. No, Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, and Adams would not be considered Christian by Evangelicals. They did take note they were in a country that professed to be Christian and acted accordingly.
Public schools, again those in northern he over-emphasized the influence of the public school.
---
As the Wikipedia article that I put up about him, and as this lecture he gave at the Coral Ridge Presbyterian church pointed out he wasn't pushing, Dominion theology, a theocracy in other words.
---
The talk from the book "Christian Manifesto" was given was by Francis Schaeffer, not Frank, and the wiki article you put up was about Frank, not Francis. Son Frank not much like his father Francis, as you know. Too bad he had such disdain for his father that he had to go off the deep end.

btw, Francis didn't say Christians can be involved in politics as a hobby, but rightly, that being Christian meant being one in all of life.

14

News Item7/4/14 4:28 AM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Gil Rugh said or, wrote:
...the authority of God's rule over all mankind, over all nations and empires is clearly established. Those who rule do so by divine appointment - sometimes being the lowliest of mankind and the least qualified. Every Christian is to live in subjection to these human governing authorities (knowing they have been put in that position by God) as a demonstration of obedience to God. This includes being good citizens and guarding our speech so as to speak evil of no one.

In America, Christians have the opportunity to vote knowing that God's vote is the only one that ultimately will count and His vote of one cannot be outvoted.

God does not intend for the Church to control the political process. No matter who is in office God's people submit and continue the work of the ministry of proclaiming the Gospel. As God rules, His people are safe and secure at all times and in all places as His perfect plans are being fulfilled and His purposes accomplished.

from the summary for The Church in the Political Process

This adequately covers it. :

13

News Item7/4/14 1:35 AM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Well, Mike of N.Y., I read the sermon the "Christian Manifesto," by Frank Schaeffer. It had what might be considered minor errors in it. The Founding Fathers did stress the Roman-Greco history, because they had seen the tyranny of Catholic controlled countries. They wanted nothing to do with that. No, Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, and Adams would not be considered Christian by Evangelicals. They did take note they were in a country that professed to be Christian and acted accordingly.

Public schools, again those in northern Louisiana will have some differences from those in New York City. Also, the parents are the biggest influence in a child's life, so he over-emphasized the influence of the public school.

As the Wikipedia article that I put up about him, and as this lecture he gave at the Coral Ridge Presbyterian church pointed out he wasn't pushing, Dominion theology, a theocracy in other words. So neither I nor my pastor has said you shouldn't go out and vote. I've never said you can't participate in political activities, at least as a hobby, spreading the Gospel is what a Christian is to be doing, and not to be putting distractions in the way of that mission. So as a sermon, Schaeffer put too much emphasis on social action.

12

News Item7/3/14 10:25 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
People who want to know about Frank Scheaffer should look at Wikipedia article about him, http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Schaeffer.
11

News Item7/3/14 2:50 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Ok, Mike of N.Y., I'll read it through, amd while Dr Schaffer is/was (since he's deceased) much better than his son...well anyway I'll read it, of course always keeping in mind, The Inadequacy of Moralism.
10

News Item7/3/14 2:15 PM
Mike | NewYork  Find all comments by Mike
Jim Lincoln wrote:
Mike, not only are there several of Gil's sermons on the relationship between the believer and government, though usually more to the point between believers and American government, but for a more general look, there's always the commentary, Rendering To Caesar---A Biblical Perspective On Government, which again, I would suggest you and others look at. It is not evil to obey a government in almost all cases, except in a very few cases, and that goes for totalitarian governments as well.
---
Rendering to Caesar whatever Caesar wants isn't biblical, and Caesar is usually improperly defined anyway. But tell you what, I will read the commentary you posted, in exchange for you reading this, an address given over 30 yrs ago, for some historical and biblical insight as to where we are and how we got here, including Why Christians Must Connect the Dots
9

News Item7/2/14 1:44 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Mike, not only are there several of Gil's sermons on the relationship between the believer and government, though usually more to the point between believers and American government, but for a more general look, there's always the commentary, Rendering To Caesar---A Biblical Perspective On Government, which again, I would suggest you and others look at. It is not evil to obey a government in almost all cases, except in a very few cases, and that goes for totalitarian governments as well.

Oh, another example from China, China bans Xinjiang officials from observing Ramadan fast.

8

News Item7/1/14 4:20 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Jim Lincoln wrote:
Mike of N.Y.,
James 4
4 You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
So, Mike N.Y., which is better these Chinese Christians acting like Christians or like the worldly Muhammadans killing people, you can bet that the will get a much more severe treatment than Christians. However, I'm not saying that the behavior the Chinese government is right, or should be encouraged, but the same treatment helped spread Christianity in the Roman Empire, q.v., Roman Catholicism: The Paganization of Christianity Constantine and the Catholic Church-State
By the way, am I basically happy with the American Revolution, yes, which was started by non-Christians, are we better off than the Canadians? No., but they might be better off because we did revolt. Christians in China would gain nothing worldly by acting violently.
Matthew 13:22
1) The Chinese govt is the world you say their Christians should be nice to.

2) Never said the Chinese Christians should act violently. Criticized you for saying they were being good citizens by obeying evil.

3) So, are the Christians being praised for doing good per Rom 13:3?

7

News Item7/1/14 3:08 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Mike of N.Y.,

James 4
4 You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.---NASB

So, Mike N.Y., which is better these Chinese Christians acting like Christians or like the worldly Muhammadans killing people, you can bet that the will get a much more severe treatment than Christians. However, I'm not saying that the behavior the Chinese government is right, or should be encouraged, but the same treatment helped spread Christianity in the Roman Empire, q.v., Roman Catholicism: The Paganization of Christianity Constantine and the Catholic Church-State.

By the way, am I basically happy with the American Revolution, yes, which was started by non-Christians, are we better off than the Canadians? No., but they might be better off because we did revolt. Christians in China would gain nothing worldly by acting violently.

Matthew 13:22

6

News Item7/1/14 8:37 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Jim Lincoln wrote:
it is? Then I must be slipping. If a Christian hasn't suffered persecution in his life, he probably isn't one..
"1.God's servants are divinely protected until their
work is finished.
2.God's servants are hated by the unbeliever. God
chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates
you.
3.Unbelievers are tormented by the ministry of God's
servants. You become the vehicle of convicting them
and that conviction becomes sheer torment.
4.Unbelievers rejoice when the servants of God are
removed.
5.God's servants will be victorious. Portrayed very
graphically here in the resurrection of the two
witnesses.
6.By God's grace the elect will be saved." summary for All God's Witnesses Suffer Persecution
Indeed Christians are suffering and will increasingly suffer. On this we agree. But the thrust of your first post was not about Christians suffering persecution, but about Chinese Christians being law-abiding citizens because of following your version of obedience to "Caesar." So tell me, if they are doing good, has the dictator-criminal in charge praised them yet per Romans 13:3?
5

News Item7/1/14 1:27 AM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
it is? Then I must be slipping. If a Christian hasn't suffered persecution in his life, he probably isn't one..

"1.God's servants are divinely protected until their
work is finished.
2.God's servants are hated by the unbeliever. God
chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates
you.
3.Unbelievers are tormented by the ministry of God's
servants. You become the vehicle of convicting them
and that conviction becomes sheer torment.
4.Unbelievers rejoice when the servants of God are
removed.
5.God's servants will be victorious. Portrayed very
graphically here in the resurrection of the two
witnesses.
6.By God's grace the elect will be saved." summary for All God's Witnesses Suffer Persecution

4

News Item7/1/14 12:36 AM
leatherneck | Michigan  Contact via emailFind all comments by leatherneck
Very discerning Mike!
3

News Item6/30/14 3:12 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Jim Lincoln wrote:
The Chinese Christians and many others have shown great restraint in their protests. They realize they do live in a Communist country, but they are showing that Christians can be law-abiding citizens and recognize the principles of following the principles of...Rendering To Caesar-A Biblical Perspective on Government, they can be law-abiding peaceful citizens of a country...
Interesting Jim. I think that's the first time you've labeled persecution of Christians as God's will for communist dictator-criminals. Gotta keep those criminals executing wrath on the Christians doing evil, though, right? Make them law-abiding citizens. If only the Christians would do good, the dictator-criminals would praise them, right?
2

News Item6/30/14 2:51 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
The Chinese Christians and many others have shown great restraint in their protests. They realize they do live in a Communist country, but they are showing that Christians can be law-abiding citizens and recognize the principles of following the principles of Rendering To Caesar---A Biblical Perspective On Government, they can be law-abiding peaceful citizens of a country, unlike the Muhammad terrorists of Western China.

Thankfully, it appears few Chinese Christians have been evangelized by Christians more interested in government reform than spreading the Gospel.

"The Reconstructionist movement and its allies and offshoots, by substituting political and cultural action for the proclamation of the Gospel, by substituting eschatology for soteriology, and by mangling the Gospel itself, have become tools of Romanist political action" (3/02, The Trinity Review).' excerpt from, Notes on Reconstructionism

1
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