Pope Just Invited Islam Into The Vatican, Christians Aghast
According to a recent Times of Israel report, Islamic and Jewish representatives will join Pope Francis for an interfaith event Sunday at the Vatican. Israeli President Shimon Peres confirmed the news following a visit to his country by the Catholic leader last week.
Pope Francis invited representatives of the two faiths ‚Äď Peres and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas ‚Äď to the prayer summit, which will focus on peace among the often embattled monotheistic religions.
The leaders will recite applicable passages from their respective holy books....
I think that we need to be careful not to judge hearts or motives. However, I think that exposing that which is false is a very loving gesture and commanded in Scripture. It's not that we rehash over the same arguments;sometimes it's that we truly love the lost and we address those things which are deceitful. In this way, many are forewarned.
Auswere wrote: Again what you are suggesting John is that you believe that God may be defeated by men in His act of saving the elect.
I am looking at scripture, something which I realise you hate doing. Note,
Matthew 23:13 KJV (13) But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Observe what the Son of God says here, making no reference to the elect of course, you are adding to scripture, naturally. "...neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in..."
What are these folks trying to do? They are trying to enter the kingdom of God. Is someone trying to prevent them? Yes, of course, the devil and his minions are trying to prevent them. Are some humans dupes of the devil? Yes, of course, and many of them are in churches.
Methinks you need to read the Bible instead of the 10,000 words per verse written by your heroes. It was never God's intention that it should take fifty years to read HIS instructions.
Now, will you start obeying God? Or will you sit back and chant your mantra "I'm elect, I'm elect, I'm elect!"
And all the time, God's elect in the world starve for lack of the gospel.
John UK wrote: Matthew 23:12-13 KJV (13) But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. I think I can see an action here, which is necessary. Secondly, here is Jesus pointing to the act of hypocrites hindering men from entering the kingdom of God. If you've never come across this, you need to get out more, or you need to read all your posts over the past several years.
Again what you are suggesting John is that you believe that God may be defeated by men in His act of saving the elect.
Verse 13 above has a different position in that what Jesus is saying to the Pharisees is that their version of religion is human and of human philosophy. Perhaps they are more like the Roman Catholics or Arminians of their day.
Jesus said of them "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; BUT DO NOT YE AFTER THEIR WORKS: for they SAY, and DO NOT."
You see John the Calvinist/WCF teaching is more of God's sovereignty and divine help to overcome sin. Not works based stuff.
s c wrote: Hello John UK...while I would agree that we ought to be focusing on Scripture, I am wondering what you specifically meant in your statement: ...lamenting the lack of experiential Christianity, or a testimony of the great joy of having rivers of living water flowing within, rather than rehashing the same old arguments which never really changes things in the believer's life. How is your statement applicable to the pope's invitation?
Here is the answer: Luke 6:43-45 KJV (43) For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. (44) For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. (45) A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
You can always tell what a man is full of, in his heart, because he cannot help but speak (or post).
Very few will post about love for the lost, but spend years repeating over and over the same old, same old.
Hello John UK...while I would agree that we ought to be focusing on Scripture, I am wondering what you specifically meant in your statement: ...lamenting the lack of experiential Christianity, or a testimony of the great joy of having rivers of living water flowing within, rather than rehashing the same old arguments which never really changes things in the believer's life. How is your statement applicable to the pope's invitation?
ladybug wrote: John UK, Yes, all who believe on the Lord shall be saved, we can all agree on that. The question is why do some believe, and others do not? Is it the supernatural work of God as He opens the blind eye, the deaf ear?
Yes, of course it is, ladybug. How else can a sinner comprehend the things of God, except by the Spirit of God? This is basic teaching of the doctrines of grace.
But it is for us, upon whom this amazing resurrection to life has been advanced, to continue the work through which God performed such a work. Was it not through the preaching of the word? Or the reading of God's word? For our God has chosen through the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. We do not even need to know why sinners believe, but we do need to tell them that God holds them responsible to believe, because unbelief is a grievous sin. Men ought to believe on Christ, and if they don't, God will judge them most severely for having rejected the testimony of God on the subject.
God has given to us eternal life and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life, and he who has not the Son of God has not life.
We remain alive only to propagate the gospel, not debate how it works.
Yes, all who believe on the Lord shall be saved, we can all agree on that. The question is why do some believe, and others do not? Is it the supernatural work of God as He opens the blind eye, the deaf ear? A.W. Pink writes "In those in whom the Spirit works faith, He first blows down the building of human pretensions, demolishes the walls which were built with the untempered mortar of man‚Äôs own righteousness, and destroys the foundations which were laid in self-flattery and natural sufficiency, so that they are entirely shut up to Christ and God‚Äôs free grace. Once awakened, instead of fondly imagining I am the man whom God will save, I am now convinced that I am the one who must be damned. So far from concluding I have any ability to even help save myself, I nowknow that I am "without strength" and no more able to receive Christ as my Lord and Savior than I can climb up to Heaven. Evident it is, then, that a mighty supernatural power is needed if I am to come to Him who "justifieth the ungodly." None but the all-mighty Spirit can lift a stricken soul out of the gulf of despair and enable him to believe to the saving of his soul." from http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Holy_Spirit..
The same Paul who wrote Romans 9:22, earlier wrote Romans 2:5, in which he makes clear that the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction are fitted to it because of their impenitent hearts.
As for 1 Peter 2:8, what does it say? "And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed."
Some would have this to mean they were foreordained to stumble. The stumbling is a result, a penalty, and is wrought by "being disobedient," as it says. The stumbling is not tripping over the words of Scripture, but is what the disobedient are appointed to.
It would be rather good for fellow Christians to be discussing the following text, either lamenting the lack of experiential Christianity, or a testimony of the great joy of having rivers of living water flowing within, rather than rehashing the same old arguments which never really changes things in the believer's life. Note,
John 7:37-39 KJV (37) In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. (38) He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (39) (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified).
ladybug wrote: The implication of this English phrase is that anyone who wishes to may exert his will and freedom of choice in order to believe something about Christ.
I've personally never thought of it like that, as it does not say that. But I do agree that word could be rendered, "those who believe", which is how I read "whosoever believeth".
After all, when the gospel is preached, some believe and some do not believe. This is easily shown from the new testament accounts. Those who believe, whoever believes, are saved. And if some do not believe, they do not get saved. Some will call on the name of the Lord and get saved, and some will never call on the name of the Lord as long as they live and these do not get saved. This is how the new testament portrays life in the real world, as opposed to the mathematical formulae of confessions and creeds, many of which are based on a couple of texts while ignoring the majority of texts. I might call it lopsided Christianity, or a one-string harp.
One thing is sure, that if thou shalt "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, thou shalt be saved."
Whoever you are, whatever colour, age, gender, past history, pedigree, rich, poor, whatever, whosoever.
if saying you believe in Jesus is all that's needed, how can you say to a Mormon, or a Roman Catholic, they aren't saved? How is their 'faith' different from yours?
Dear Ladybug Surely you know. Mormons, Roman Catholics, JWs and Muslims too have a different Jesus
If you want to put this is better words it is essential we tell people the Truth of Jesus Christ, what God Himself in Scripture reveals and teaches of Him, the faith if you are willing that was once for all delivered to the saints...long before Calvin btw
The faith that filled the early believers with great joy and in the filling of the Spirit made them totally unafraid of dying for the Savior
These matters are indeed wonderful Biblical Truth a child of God ought to study much into and meditate on
Then it is quite simple to see how a person can believe, as genuine Biblical Faith is in and on what God Himself say (its the Truth don't you know) that the Holy Spirit convicts/convinces one of _ real faith coming from communication from God to man and the Spirit leading/convicting that man or woman to believe it and act upon it, the PROMISE God Himself has given them of His Son
Hope that's not too much of the Sovereignty of God
It isn't my intention to argue, we should always seek to encourage each other, iron sharpens iron. I will only respond one last time, leaving you with Jim McClarty's teaching on 'whosoever' - Let's start by addressing the heart of the argument and then we'll get into the details. The word "whosever" appears twice in this passage. In both instances, it is used in regard to faith - "whosoever believes." The implication of this English phrase is that anyone who wishes to may exert his will and freedom of choice in order to believe something about Christ. Anyone who would like to can exercise his or her right and faculty to have (or not have) faith. The consequences of their faith (or lack of it) are then the result of that person's free and unencumbered choice. But, there's a problem. And, it's a big problem. The New Testament was not written in English, any less the King's English. It was written in Greek. And, there is no Greek equivalent for the English word "whosoever." That's important. So much so that it bears repeating. There is no Greek equivalent for the English word "whosoever."The Apostle John did not write, "Whosoever believeth." That word construction was never part of his original letter." from salvation by grace.org, under Q&A tab, 'about John 3:16'