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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  10/23/2014
THURSDAY, JUN 5, 2014  |  97 comments
CT: Why I Gave Up Alcohol

I am 30, I am an evangelical Christian, and I don't drink. Not because I have a problem with alcohol abuse, although I enjoy a good sobriety story as much as the next person. My narrative is a bit more jarring, coming across to fellow liberated evangelicals as a throwback to our not-too-distant conservative past. In a culture that encourages us to celebrate the good things of life—Instagramming an artfully arranged salad, tweeting about Pinot Noir, posting Facebook albums full of vacations—choosing not to drink carries a stigma of pietism, a whiff of refusing to party with Jesus. A faith built on meaningless acts of righteousness, of disdaining the world and its evil values.

In the pastor's home I grew up in, alcohol was a nonissue: not a drop in our house, only grape juice in the Communion cups. Save for my mother's relatives—who served as a warning, since most of them abused substances at some ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 97 user comment(s)
News Item6/12/14 5:18 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
I have an A.W. Tozer daily flip calendar, which I have had for years. I thought June 12 quote interesting:
"Salvation is from our side a choice; from the divine side it is a seizing upon, an apprehending, a conquest by the Most High God. Our 'accepting' and 'willing' are reactions rather than actions."
Thanks for that, Mike.

It sums up what I believe perfectly.

97

News Item6/12/14 4:37 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
Yep, we need to get back to "normal" Christianity, ably preached by good men like Leonard Ravenhill and A W Tozer.
I have an A.W. Tozer daily flip calendar, which I have had for years. I thought June 12 quote interesting:

"Salvation is from our side a choice; from the divine side it is a seizing upon, an apprehending, a conquest by the Most High God. Our 'accepting' and 'willing' are reactions rather than actions."

96

News Item6/11/14 6:10 PM
s c | Oh  Find all comments by s c
When Paul says in I Corinthians 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper..he was rebuking them when he said this is not to eat the Lord's Supper..as in your behavior is so reprehensible that you could not be remembering the Lord in the proper way...it wasn't that they weren't partaking. It was that they were partaking in an unbecoming manner. I'm not disputing the pattern for it.
95

News Item6/11/14 5:41 PM
penned  Find all comments by penned
maybe you all can correct this, but my understanding is this was done during the Passover meal, and that the cup would've have been the third cup of wine of the night, being the cup of redemption (there's usually 4).... and this would have been multiple cups passed around, like is done at communion today, not guzzling large amounts.
94

News Item6/11/14 5:12 PM
Just wondering  Find all comments by Just wondering
s c wrote:
Knowledge of how they partook of the Lord's Supper helps...
Still at a loss here, just trying to be on same page.

I Corinthians 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper

(then he speaks of the agape feast you referenced, but Paul is clearly speaking of the way after the resurrection believer's practiced the Lord's Supper)

(v23-26) 23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

The apostle Paul referenced the supper found in the gospels as the pattern for communion. You seem to be saying, no that was a Jewish custom or holiday not to be emulated. So, who is right, you or the apostle Paul?

93

News Item6/11/14 4:50 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Shane wrote:
John UK says...
I find it remarkable that the Spirit can often find an open ear in the members, but the leaders seem to have shut themselves off from the leading of the Spirit and are engaging in all sorts of unbiblical practises.
This is an all to common occurrence nowadays.the older crowd starts to fall asleep, which means that's the donors we have relied on are no longer there. So worry sets in. The younger generation of pastors start to exert control. It's seems the most only care about numbers. Which have the appearance of blessings.
There is a famine in the land.
Yep, we need to get back to "normal" Christianity, ably preached by good men like Leonard Ravenhill and A W Tozer.
92

News Item6/11/14 4:24 PM
s c | Oh  Find all comments by s c
Knowledge of how they partook of the Lord's Supper helps. It was much different than it is practiced now. They would have lengthy feasts. We say a prayer and have a bite. Other Scriptures that you cite are prior to the Lord's Resurrection. We do not observe Jewish customs as that which was foreshadowed in them has come to past. That's why there are no valid holidays "holy days". All of the Jewish holidays were a shadow of Christ. We need to recognize that we do a disservice, willingly or not, when we celebrate these. The verse in the Bible which speaks of one not being judged in regards to such is an admonition for the Christians to NOT allow others to judge them because they did not partake of those festivals and food.
91

News Item6/11/14 3:36 PM
Just wondering  Find all comments by Just wondering
s c wrote:
Instead of celebrating communion by partaking of wine, juice or bread/crackers which are symbolic and being unsure of which best represents it and to hat frequency, why don't Christians understand that every time we come together to meet and to glorify God, that we are celebrating communion in that we partake of Him (His Word) as in He is the Bread of Life and His Spirit (the new wine)?
How does that line up with I Corinthians 11:20-34, Matthew 26:17-30, Mark 14:12-26, Luke 22:7-39 and John 13:1-17:26?
90

News Item6/11/14 3:31 PM
s c | Oh  Find all comments by s c
Instead of celebrating communion by partaking of wine, juice or bread/crackers which are symbolic and being unsure of which best represents it and to hat frequency, why don't Christians understand that every time we come together to meet and to glorify God, that we are celebrating communion in that we partake of Him (His Word) as in He is the Bread of Life and His Spirit (the new wine)?
89

News Item6/10/14 7:12 PM
Shane | socal  Find all comments by Shane
John UK says...
I find it remarkable that the Spirit can often find an open ear in the members, but the leaders seem to have shut themselves off from the leading of the Spirit and are engaging in all sorts of unbiblical practises.

This is an all to common occurrence nowadays.the older crowd starts to fall asleep, which means that's the donors we have relied on are no longer there. So worry sets in. The younger generation of pastors start to exert control. It's seems the most only care about numbers. Which have the appearance of blessings.
There is a famine in the land.

88

News Item6/9/14 7:42 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
As regards communion wine, I rather think Paul's exhortation concerning the Lord's Supper serves to support the idea that communion wine could get you drunk if you have too much.

1 Corinthians 11:21-22 KJV
(21) For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
(22) What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

All this grape juice for communion cannot be shown from scripture.

Besides which, if you went backstage before the service and saw the mould being syphoned off the Ribena, you might be well tempted not to partake, and I wouldn't blame you.

87

News Item6/9/14 7:34 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
By the way, hello Frank if you're reading. I know many would like to hear from you. Hope all is well
86

News Item6/9/14 7:22 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Thanks John, and good comment, Lurker. I got your message and will try to respond before you leave.

Yeah, John...I don't get it. Maybe it's like you inferred about closed mindedness, which we all can be guilty of. We grow up, or are taught specific things, interpretations, etc, after being born again; being molded like children into a tunnel vision way of thinking and reasoning. Then, when anyone says something which doesn't jive with what we have been taught, we automatically go into defense mode even when the other party has an excellent biblical case. I learned very quickly when arriving here that I needed to open my closed mind and listen, research, pray, and give serious thought to things I had otherwise already deemed solved, etc.
Charismatics come to mind when it comes to the spiritual gifts like tongues, for example. No matter what can show and prove, you're wrong, spiritually dead, faithless, etc. A closed mind is a dangerous thing...

85

News Item6/8/14 2:22 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Gentlemen,

And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

"this [wine] **is** my blood...." meaning its a figure.

Both blood and wine are cover to cover biblical figures of biblical realities. Just as the blood of bulls and goats will not take away sin.... neither will strong wine take away sin. Just as the blood of the Lamb cleanses robes making them white as snow, so does the wine of the cup of His table make one guiltless before a just and holy God.

You are wasting your time arguing about literal wine. Seek the reality of the figures in their cover to cover harmony which has been hidden in plain sight by the hermeneutics of men. God will be honored and you will be blessed.

84

News Item6/8/14 11:20 AM
DanUSA | USA  Find all comments by DanUSA
"Dan, you're flapping about with your poor arguments."

Proverbs 23:31 KJV is a poor argument.

What about being deceived by wine?
Proverbs 20:1 is still poor argument.

and all you have is Be not drunk...what percentage of alcohol in your body would make you a DUI?

83

News Item6/8/14 10:08 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Christopher000 wrote:
Seems pretty clear to me that having a drink of something here and there is a non-issue biblically, even encouraged in certain circumstances. The issue is self control and not causing anyone to stumble or cause offense. That's how I see it anyway. I'm never quite sure why it causes such heated exchanges, especially when the topic seems clear enough.
I reckon you've summed it all up very nicely Christopher. It is also a mystery to me why certain ones do not see the issue clearly from the Bible. Maybe it is because of their pastor teaching them things he ought not to be teaching them. Or it could be the stereotyped image of what a Christian should be like.

I know there are folks on these threads who enjoy a glass of wine with their meal, and far be it from me to censure them, seeing as they have a biblical precedent to do so.

82

News Item6/8/14 9:07 AM
Strat  Find all comments by Strat
Christopher000 wrote:
Seems pretty clear to me that having a drink of something here and there is a non-issue biblically, even encouraged in certain circumstances. The issue is self control and not causing anyone to stumble or cause offense. That's how I see it anyway. I'm never quite sure why it causes such heated exchanges, especially when the topic seems clear enough.
Because people judge people by people and not by what is in and not in the bible,its a constant game of one upsmanship trying to sound holier than the next guy when none are holy,no not one.
81

News Item6/8/14 8:45 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Seems pretty clear to me that having a drink of something here and there is a non-issue biblically, even encouraged in certain circumstances. The issue is self control and not causing anyone to stumble or cause offense. That's how I see it anyway. I'm never quite sure why it causes such heated exchanges, especially when the topic seems clear enough.
80

News Item6/8/14 4:59 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
DanUSA wrote:
1 Timothy 3:8 KJV
(8) Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
Proverbs 23:31 KJV
31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
Is the God of 1Timothy the same God of Proverbs? Is He contradicting? Or is it about a word with two different meanings.
Could it perhaps one is fermented wine and the other is just unfermented wine?
I drink unfermented grape wine, but not much of it.
Dan, you're flapping about with your poor arguments.

It's like me saying, "Well, if we're not to look on the wine when it is red, shut your eyes while drinking it."

Or, "In that case I will drink only white table wine."

Or, "Well, how about vodka, that's white?"

Oh boy!

Scripture says, "Be not DRUNK with WINE..."

79

News Item6/8/14 1:09 AM
DanUSA | USA  Find all comments by DanUSA
John UK wrote:
Dan, here is what God says to overseers:
1 Timothy 3:3 KJV
(3) Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
and deacons:
1 Timothy 3:8 KJV
(8) Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
Ooooh look ye here! "Not given to MUCH wine". That means that when they drink their wine, they are to do it moderately.
And I am neither an elder nor a deacon, so that doesn't apply to me anyway.
1 Timothy 3:8 KJV

(8) Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

Proverbs 23:31 KJV

31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

Is the God of 1Timothy the same God of Proverbs? Is He contradicting? Or is it about a word with two different meanings.

Could it perhaps one is fermented wine and the other is just unfermented wine?

I drink unfermented grape wine, but not much of it.

78
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