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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  10/22/2014
TUESDAY, APR 8, 2014  |  151 comments  |  1 commentary
PBS Looks at New Calvinism

In some Southern Baptist churches there has been a revival of interest in Calvinism, the theology of the 16th-century reformer John Calvin, who also had a great influence on colonial America.. “For some, Calvinism is divisive and unbiblical” says Southern Baptist pastor Daniel Montgomery of Sojourn Community Church in Louisville, Kentucky, “We’ve seen that it unifies our efforts, it gives us an understanding that God is at work in this world. We don’t need to make things happen. We simply join God in what he’s doing.” ...

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 151 user comment(s)
News Item4/14/14 3:41 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
manifest wrote:
"In some Southern Baptist churches there has been a revival of interest in Calvinism"
Aspects of anti Calvinism displayed today coming from heretical churches are;
(1) "God is not sovereign."

(2)"Sin is not a problem which man cannot overcome by himself."
---

These quotes-who are you quoting?
151

News Item4/14/14 3:28 PM
manifest  Find all comments by manifest
"In some Southern Baptist churches there has been a revival of interest in Calvinism"

Aspects of anti Calvinism displayed today coming from heretical churches are;
(1) "God is not sovereign."
This is a direct assault on God as supreme and divine creator. This is a part of man's sinful flesh and psyche. The disobedience of Adam is rooted in all mankind. The anarchic and lawless nature of man does not disappear when we live in a perceived religious way, it remains a part of our rebellious nature. Theology which opposes or contradicts the Doctrines of Grace therefore will always be reality within man and church. The tares will always be with us. Adam disobeyed and we are all Adam's descendents.

(2) "Sin is not a problem which man cannot overcome by himself."
This is a form of idolatry putting man on a pedestal he does not belong on. Many religious even Christian people underestimate the power of sin. Free willism is a product of sin and practiced by anti Calvinist theologies. But sin remains dominant in the mortal even if in a covert way. Paul's expose' of sin at Romans 7 demonstrates an aspect of this dark secret imbedded in the flesh of humans.

Theology is important because is illustrates Christian knowledge - Or it demonstrates heresy.

150

News Item4/12/14 8:06 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
ladybug wrote:
---
Mike NY, God IS sovereign, but that does NOT mean He ordains evil. Evil is a result of wicked and depraved man, as well as Satan and the demonic realm. The curse of sin is evident everywhere. Does God ordain evil? No, but He allows evil to happen; He let Pharaoh act out what was in his own heart, that doesn't mean we have 'free will'; it means God lets mankind go about doing what comes natural to them. The fact that God elects some for eternal life and leaves others in their sins is beyond human comprehension, why? Because no one understands the deep wickedness and depravity that lies in their own heart. We measure our 'goodness' with human understanding, the Bible reveals a horrific picture of the heart of mankind, Matthew 15:19 is just one of many verses that reveal what is in the heart of man.
No argument concerning the evil in men's hearts. And certainly God does not ordain evil. But I have seen posted here in the past that that some of the misled believe God ordains whatsoever shall come to pass. Whatsoever is an very inclusive word.
149

News Item4/12/14 6:58 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
John, you know what I always find so interesting when reading through the threads? The people who judge and condemn, and those who infer or say outright that this member or that member is lost and hellbound. What I find so interesting about it is that the people who say or infer such things almost always are the ones who are consistently nasty, hateful, divisive, and never set a Christian example themselves. I think people like this are dangerous because they sit on high and nobody can knock them down or convince them they're wrong about anything, yet they think of themselves as set apart and being persecuted for Christ's sake. Strange thing to me.
148

News Item4/11/14 4:44 PM
ladybug  Find all comments by ladybug
IkeMike,

You misunderstood my statement. God is too holy to consider the sin found in Jeremiah 32:35; He would never command His people to sacrifice their children to false gods. It's always best to ask someone to explain, rather than assume you know what that person meant.

Mike NY, God IS sovereign, but that does NOT mean He ordains evil. Evil is a result of wicked and depraved man, as well as Satan and the demonic realm. The curse of sin is evident everywhere. Does God ordain evil? No, but He allows evil to happen; He let Pharaoh act out what was in his own heart, that doesn't mean we have 'free will'; it means God lets mankind go about doing what comes natural to them. The fact that God elects some for eternal life and leaves others in their sins is beyond human comprehension, why? Because no one understands the deep wickedness and depravity that lies in their own heart. We measure our 'goodness' with human understanding, the Bible reveals a horrific picture of the heart of mankind, Matthew 15:19 is just one of many verses that reveal what is in the heart of man.

147

News Item4/11/14 3:45 PM
R. K. Borill | Baton Rouge, Louisiana  Protected NameFind all comments by R. K. Borill
Query,

God is transferring to himself what is normally referred to men, because it is not right that we should presume that we can alter His worship as we please thinking that this or that might be what he desires in worship. He has declared what is acceptable in his sight as men approach Him. In doing so men attempt to exalt their own wisdom above His.

146

News Item4/11/14 3:02 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Query wrote:
Can someone who is a Calvinist please explain the following verse to me:
Jeremiah 32:35
And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
How can God say "neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin"?
Firstly it does seem to run counter to omniscience, and then since all we can ever do is sin, for the Lord to be surprised by a sin, seems, well, surprising.
He isn't expressing surprise here, but stating a fact, that they were doing things he would not even consider. They disobeyed and ignored what he taught them, as seen in the previous 2 verses:

Jeremiah 32:33,34
And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction.
But they set their abominations in the house, which is called by my name, to defile it."

Some might disagree, saying that because God is sovereign, he ordained this, but of course that would mean he contradicts himself.

145

News Item4/11/14 2:30 PM
a calvinist  Find all comments by a calvinist
Query wrote:
Jeremiah 32:35
And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
How can God say "neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin"?
Who planted the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the first place?

Omniscient and omnipotent!!

Luke 12:6 Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?
7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

Seems God knows everything there is to know and knows before it happens too.

144

News Item4/11/14 1:59 PM
GSTexas  Find all comments by GSTexas
Query,

Isaiah 55:8-9 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."

Psalm 147:5 "Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is INFINITE."

143

News Item4/11/14 12:44 PM
IkeMike | Iowa, USA  Find all comments by IkeMike
Ladybug: God is too holy to consider sin? So Christ died on the cross and sin wasn't a consideration?
142

News Item4/11/14 12:00 PM
Ladybug  Find all comments by Ladybug
query

It means God did not approve of their sinful ways, He is too holy to even consider sin, He would never think of such sinful atrocities. Let me quote John Gill, "it was not so much as thought of by him, still less desired, and much less commanded by him".
BTW, I do not follow the teachings of Calvin, but thought I'd answer anyway

141

News Item4/11/14 11:56 AM
Query  Find all comments by Query
Can someone who is a Calvinist please explain the following verse to me:

Jeremiah 32:35
And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

How can God say "neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin"?

Firstly it does seem to run counter to omniscience, and then since all we can ever do is sin, for the Lord to be surprised by a sin, seems, well, surprising.

140

News Item4/11/14 8:11 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Christopher000 wrote:
I'd like to know where he was going with that as well. Not sure if he was trying to say that you will be amongst those who cry, "Lord, Lord..."
Always interesting how this topic always seems to play out.
A thorn in the flesh, or a messenger of satan, or anyone who buffets the saints, should always be welcomed, because in the sovereignty of God, he has allowed or specifically directed such an one, for the spiritual benefit of the saints, to mature them in the faith, to make them stronger and more powerful through weakness, to test their longsuffering, and generally for the blessing of the saints.

Don't forget, Chris, that there pops up now and again on SA forums, those who do not know the Saviour. Which is why Jesus says in v23 "I never knew you."

139

News Item4/11/14 7:25 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
I'd like to know where he was going with that as well. Not sure if he was trying to say that you will be amongst those who cry, "Lord, Lord..."
Always interesting how this topic always seems to play out.
138

News Item4/11/14 7:17 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Biblical Calvinism wrote:
So do Roman Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, Moonies, Pentecostals, Muslims, cults, religious reprobates and the church referred to at Matt 7:21-23....
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Are you making a point? Or just whiling away the day with a newspaper in one hand and a pipe in the other, offering a post when the mood takes you? Bad mood, that is.
137

News Item4/11/14 7:12 AM
Biblical Calvinism  Find all comments by Biblical Calvinism
John UK wrote:
I do not neglect sound doctrine, indeed I make it my business to ensure that my beliefs are both sound and biblical
So do Roman Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, Moonies, Pentecostals, Muslims, cults, religious reprobates and the church referred to at Matt 7:21-23....

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

136

News Item4/11/14 6:58 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
R. K. Borill wrote:
John UK,
1. No anathemas intended, just showing the importance of the love of the truth.
2. I agree with you about the deceptive Anglicans, but we must not allow their empirical use of their confession cause us to neglect sound doctrine.
Deuteronomy 32:1-3 KJV
[1] Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. [2] My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: [3] Because I will publish the name of the Lord : ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
1. Yes indeed, thank you, love of the truth is very good. Some folks love what they "think" is the truth. Whereas I am certain that he that believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God.

2. Quite so. I do not neglect sound doctrine, indeed I make it my business to ensure that my beliefs are both sound and biblical. Very soon we shall be in the eternal state, where nothing can be changed, nor false doctrine remedied. Now is the time for all these things, before it is too late.

Nbbb,
What is "harry theology"? Divine right of kings?

135

News Item4/11/14 6:58 AM
Not bigotry. BUT Bible  Find all comments by Not bigotry. BUT Bible
John UK wrote:
accept many arminists as Christians
If you wish to compromise with every tom dick and harry theology which comes along then that is your choice. But the Bible believing Christian cannot afford to compromise with obvious error and "every wind of doctrine". Eph 4:14.

As a Biblical Calvinist I do not believe that is the position of Christ. See His debates with Pharisees. He stands up for a truly Sovereign God and does not compromise with sin and idolatry such as the fallacy of the RCC, Arminians and free willers.

Election, predestination, inner calling and the truth of Total Depravity in man are realities which God deals with in a strict and powerful way. He does not compromise nor does He send grace to be diluted by sinners. Faith is the gift of God in which His saints are to serve diligently and contend for that faith in the trial and tribulation of this evil existence.

Heresy, heterodoxy, pride and arrogance are man's sinful delusions. What they reveal is the sinner in action - NOT a 'partial' Christian needing to be pacified.

Fight the good fight.
It is and should be a conflict and a struggle within and within the world.
Walk by faith NOT by sight.
Beware the roaring lion of 1Peter 5:8.

134

News Item4/11/14 6:46 AM
R. K. Borill | Baton Rouge, Louisiana  Protected NameFind all comments by R. K. Borill
John UK,

No anathemas intended, just showing the importance of the love of the truth.

I agree with you about the deceptive Anglicans, but we must not allow their empirical use of their confession cause us to neglect sound doctrine.

Deuteronomy 32:1-3 KJV
[1] Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. [2] My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: [3] Because I will publish the name of the Lord : ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

133

News Item4/11/14 6:29 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
R. K. Borill wrote:
Even though you didn't say my name, we know of whom this is in reference.
Nothing to do with you, RK.

Try going into an anglican church any sunday and listen to the "confession of faith" which all the people take part in. You may have heard it, "I believe in one God......etc."

Mental assent and verbal proclamation of a creed can be mere form without true faith. And in the anglican church, it is the majority who are like this.

Whereas when a sinner is born of God, he will believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, as I have proved already. It is a mighty work of God in the human heart, for which I glorify God and give him thanks.

Men can anathematise me all day long if they want to. It don't bother me none, because my conversion was scriptural, of the Spirit, and not even the devil can take it away.

132
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