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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  8/1/2014
MONDAY, MAR 31, 2014  |  45 comments  |  3 commentaries
Evangelical Worship Is Too Cheerful, Neglects Sin, Theologian Says

Worship services in evangelical churches do not mention sin, a major part of the Gospel message, Dr. Cornelius Plantinga, senior research fellow at the Calvin Institute of Christian Worship, said Monday at the Ethics and Public Policy Center's Faith Angle Forum.

"In very many evangelical and confessionally Reformed churches these days, sin is a rare topic," he said.

He came to this conclusion from his experience of speaking in different churches most Sundays for the past 30 years, talking to evangelical friends, observing the content of worship music used by evangelical churches, and reading the books and articles of Dr. David Wells, distinguished senior research professor at Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary, Plantinga explained to the conference of journalists. ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 45 user comment(s)
News Item4/1/14 4:34 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mr. Marty McD wrote:
The reformed churches used to apply the regulative principle of worship..
Correct, and many have lost sight of that.

quote
"Infant baptism violates the regulative principle of worship. Baptism is one of the sacraments which has been "instituted by Christ." Thus it is regulated by God, limited by His revealed will, and prescribed by Holy Scripture. This regulation extends to the subjects of baptism. Who are to be baptized? How are they to be baptized? Why are they to be baptized? To answer these questions we must ask a more basic one: What has been "instituted by Christ?"

Christ's institution of baptism, in its mode, meaning, and subjects is to be regulated by the Word of God. Yet, as Baptists and Paedobaptists agree, the only subjects of baptism which can be conclusively determined by Scripture are professing disciples. Infants are included only by "good and necessary consequence," a normative addition which is never commanded in the Bible. The practice of baptizing babies violates the regulative principle."
unquote

Founders Ministries

45

News Item4/1/14 4:05 PM
Nat | Australia  Find all comments by Nat
Hmm some of the Psalms were written by anonymous authors. Can you really be 100 percent sure it was all written by Jews? .
Also the whole entire Bible was not all written by Jews or do you disregard for instance the book of Daniel because it is not all written by a jew?
Yes God gave us the Bible so that we may know how to worship Him:with a pure and sincere heart. No where does it say to use exclusively Psalms for worship or is that verse found only in your Bible?
44

News Item4/1/14 4:03 PM
Nat | Australia  Find all comments by Nat
Hmm some of the Psalms were written by anonymous authors. Can you really be 100 percent sure it was all written by Jews? .
Also the whole entire Bible was not all written by Jews or do you disregard for instance the book of Daniel because it is not all written by a jew?
43

News Item4/1/14 10:48 AM
Hymn Singer  Find all comments by Hymn Singer
Psalms Only wrote:
1. Obviously you don't know the Bible.
Enough said!
Ha! The defense of the desperate mind!

If you know so much of the Bible, why is it you cannot mount a credible case for it?

Enough said!

42

News Item4/1/14 10:47 AM
Psalms Only  Find all comments by Psalms Only
Hymn Singer wrote:
1. An assumption
2. Who says?
3. True, but not good enough to support your case.
4. Fallacious argument.
5. More fallacious reasoning. The logical conclusion you come to is that Psalm singing is a cure all for error and that Psalm singing churches never err! Plain silly!
1. Obviously you don't know the Bible.

Enough said!

41

News Item4/1/14 10:46 AM
Hymn Singer  Find all comments by Hymn Singer
Psalms Only wrote:
1. It is a fact that the Hebrews put psalms hymns and spiritual songs in the Book of Psalms.
2. It is also fact that GOD recorded the Book of Psalms for the exclusive use of His worship and praise.
3. GOD went to the trouble of writing a book - the Bible - to teach mankind how to serve and worship Him.
4. If the Hymn singers want to write their own book of praise - Do they stop at this? Or does that mentality include rewriting the entire Bible like the Liberals do?
5. Did the ideology of ditching the Book of Psalms contrive over history to give us the Liberals and other cults today. After all if you can write your own bible (ditching the original) then you can concoct your own religion - AND we have many of those today.
1. An assumption
2. Who says?
3. True, but not good enough to support your case.
4. Fallacious argument.
5. More fallacious reasoning. The logical conclusion you come to is that Psalm singing is a cure all for error and that Psalm singing churches never err! Plain silly!
40

News Item4/1/14 10:37 AM
Psalms Only  Find all comments by Psalms Only
Hymn Singer wrote:
The exegesis of exclusive-psalm-singers is not acceptable at Colossians 3:16 and Ephesians 5:19. If these verses are referring to more than the songs of the book of Psalms, then it is acceptable for Christians to sing more than the songs from Psalms. Exclusive-psalm-singers must argue, then, that the words "psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs" in these verses all apply to the Psalms and can be applied to nothing but the Psalms
It is a fact that the Hebrews put psalms hymns and spiritual songs in the Book of Psalms.

It is also fact that GOD recorded the Book of Psalms for the exclusive use of His worship and praise.

GOD went to the trouble of writing a book - the Bible - to teach mankind how to serve and worship Him.

If the Hymn singers want to write their own book of praise - Do they stop at this? Or does that mentality include rewriting the entire Bible like the Liberals do?

Did the ideology of ditching the Book of Psalms contrive over history to give us the Liberals and other cults today. After all if you can write your own bible (ditching the original) then you can concoct your own religion - AND we have many of those today.

39

News Item4/1/14 9:43 AM
Nat | Australia  Find all comments by Nat
Sorry I went on abit of a rant :-p I tend to ramble when I'm tired!
38

News Item4/1/14 9:42 AM
Nat | Australia  Find all comments by Nat
I guess it's learning to walk the narrow way isn't it. You can go to the left and be very liberal where everything is allowed to the point that even non Christian music is Ok to listen to and live a life in sin but praise the Lord for I'm'saved'. Or you can go the opposite and be so legalistic that you will lose salvation from listening to anything other than psalms. It's about finding that golden middle. I think any sincere heartGod will open up to them what praise and worship is like a sweet incense to Him. And if we live a life to please Him not ourselves then we will listen to and do and say what we know God will be pleased about
37

News Item4/1/14 9:26 AM
Nat | Australia  Find all comments by Nat
I don't think the Lord is restricting us to sing only Psalms.
And anyways people can sing Psalms but in such a way that itmay not even be ppleasing to God. Repeating a verse over and over again like a trance to get a spiritual high. I think we all need wisdom in this aspect
36

News Item4/1/14 9:23 AM
Hymn Singer  Find all comments by Hymn Singer
The exegesis of exclusive-psalm-singers is not acceptable at Colossians 3:16 and Ephesians 5:19. If these verses are referring to more than the songs of the book of Psalms, then it is acceptable for Christians to sing more than the songs from Psalms. Exclusive-psalm-singers must argue, then, that the words "psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs" in these verses all apply to the Psalms and can be applied to nothing but the Psalms. That is clearly mistaken, however. 2 Samuel 22 is not part of the book of Psalms, but it is called a "psalm" in verse 1; the new revelation of 1 Cor. 14:26 is obviously not from Psalms, but it is called a "psalm." Or take the word "hymn." Can this word (in itself) apply to compositions other than the those from the book of Psalms? Obviously, yes. Well then, is there anything about this word in the context of Col. 3 or Eph. 5 to restrict its referent to the book of Psalms? Not at all. Finally, exclusive-psalm-singers must argue that "spiritual song" must mean "inspired song" (thus being restricted to the words of Scripture for us). But the word "spiritual" does not mean the same thing as "inspired," as is clear from its use in 1 Cor. 2:15; 3:1; and Eph. 6:12.
35

News Item4/1/14 9:22 AM
Nat | Australia  Find all comments by Nat
And what about 'make a new song to the Lord?' a Oh sing to the LORD b a new song;
sing to the LORD, all the earth!
Or what about singing from your heart?
And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit, 19 addressing one another in v psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart,
34

News Item4/1/14 9:14 AM
Nat | Australia  Find all comments by Nat
Spirit inspired is God inspired. I believe God is working just as much today as He was back then and didn't Joel prophesy that God will pour out His spirit in the end times? If we are born again by the Spirit and the spirit lives within us then the spirit may inspire us to create a song,paint a picture, etc. With charismatic churches they are deceived as it is not the spirit of God that moves them but their emotions etc. A person touched by God cannot leave a service unchanged as many in those churches. Paul washer describes it like being hit by a truck and walking away unscathed. That is the issue with emotional worship. They leave the way they first came in.
33

News Item4/1/14 9:05 AM
Hymn Singer  Find all comments by Hymn Singer
Andrew wrote:
The book of Psalms (Psalms, Hymns and Spiritual Songs in the book of Psalms) are the church's hymn book and it is sufficient and perfect.
Pity God forgot to tell us.

To prohibit congregational singing of anything but the Old Testament psalms is an unwarranted addition to the word of God (cf. Deut.4:2) and ironically a violation of the regulative principle of worship. The crucial question is this: Where in Scripture does God restrict His people to singing only the songs in the book of Psalms? No such restriction can be demonstrated. Those who try to infer it end up relying on fallacious arguments. Those who insist that we must positively demonstrate that anything we sing has the explicit warrant of Scripture have misunderstood and misapplied the "regulative principle".

32

News Item4/1/14 6:18 AM
Andrew | Melbourne, Australia  Find all comments by Andrew
Sorry, that last comment was in response to Nat's and not Nat's comment.

Funny, Nat, your experience is actually very similar to mine.

31

News Item4/1/14 6:15 AM
R. K. Borill | Baton Rouge, Louisiana  Protected NameFind all comments by R. K. Borill
Modern primarily Pentecostal type worship reminds me of the insanity of Nero who "played the fiddle while Rome burned'.
30

News Item4/1/14 5:05 AM
Andrew | Melbourne, Australia  Find all comments by Andrew
Nat wrote:
The reason I only quoted a few men from the past is because to debate such an important and difficult subject online is almost a fruitless exercise. It is predictable that many will appeal to their personal experiences, and not Scripture, as the basis for their position on Worship.

The infallible words of Scripture, and Scripture alone should be our guide on such matters. This is what the Protestant Reformation was all about and why they mostly held to the Regulative Principle of Worship (only what the Word commands is authorised in church worship). This is why all the Protestant confessions rejected the Roman Catholic Normative Principle of worship as idolatry .

Since Scripture is infallible and sufficient on all matters, including important issues such as worship, why would we want to emulate the traditions of men? Since the Canon is closed, God has restricted His infallible Word to the pages of Scripture. Hence God does not inspire extra-biblical hymns, choruses, Christian Rock anthems or anything else. The book of Psalms (Psalms, Hymns and Spiritual Songs in the book of Psalms) are the church's hymn book and it is sufficient and perfect. The real questions are: How do you know that extra-biblical hymns are inspired? God bless.

29

News Item3/31/14 8:20 PM
Nat | Australia  Find all comments by Nat
Plus whose to say God doesn't inspire his children to write hymns. Most hymns are inspired by the word of God and portray to us blessed grace in their experiences. For God to save me from the pit and my sins and give me new life in Him. ... Why would I not want to praise Him for what He had done? If I had just sung the Psalms my praise would be limited. I can't sympathize with King David in everything he wrote. Though some are very much applicable. Am I going to sing about hating my enemies with perfect hatred like King David? When Jesus Himself days bless those who curse you and loving those who hate you.
The Holy Spirit moves believers even today to write new songs. (I'm not talking about those pop rock worship bands like hillsong who base everything on certain chord Changes to ensure the most emotional experience can be provoked).
I think the closer we draw near to God the more God opens up to us what music He enjoys and our style of music we enjoy to listen to. .. Changes. When I first became a believer I used to listen to heavy 'Christian' rock. Things have changed alot since then. .. praise God.
28

News Item3/31/14 6:54 PM
So let me get this right  Find all comments by So let me get this right
Psalm only, if is not my fault you don't understand the doctrine of inspiration. God inspired what was written not the writers. While there are certainly passages where the writer was just like a secretary writing down word for word what God said, the poetical books of the Old Testament are not an example of that. I suggest you take some time to grasp the meaning of II Peter 3:21 and do do some research on verbal plenary inspiration.
27

News Item3/31/14 6:12 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
You continue to not answer what about the songs in Scripture that are not part of the Psalms. For instance in Exodus 15 a song based upon the experiences of the song writer, amazing isn't it?

We sing hymns written by sinners saved by grace, because we are sinners saved by grace. We pray with Neander that our wondrous King all glorious, Sovereign Lord victorious will accept our praise with favor. We wonder with Wesley that it could be that our God would die for me. We agree with Newton that solid joys and lasting treasure none but Zion's children know. We experience with Watts that in light of the cross, we pour contempt on all our pride. We say with Cousins that the Lamb is all the glory in Immanuel's land. We pray with Chisolm O to be like Thee, blessed Redeemer.

Your problem with that is that you think you are more spiritual because of your inaccurate belief.
If it were a truth that you believed that God has showed you it would humble you that God has opened your eyes to it. But you ALWAYS present it in this forum with a condescending prideful spirit. We have no problems with you singing only Psalms, whatsoever is not of faith is sin, but you should reconsider trying to impose your beliefs on the conscience of every believer.

26
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