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SUNDAY, APRIL 20, 2014 | TIPS Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
COVER Page ALL News CHOICE VIDEOS User COMMENTS
TUESDAY, JAN 21, 2014| 99 comments| 1 commentary
Live Debate on Predestination January 24
For whom did Christ die? Has the gift of healing ceased for today? These are the debate topics of a live debate between Dr. Michael L. Brown and Dr. James White on Friday, January 24, 2014, and Saturday, January 25, 2014 at 9pm-11pm (Eastern Time) on RevelationTV.com.

Dr. Michael L. Brown is widely considered to be the world’s foremost Messianic Jewish apologist. He is author of Hyper-Grace: Exposing the Dangers of the Modern Grace Message and host of the nationally syndicated talk radio show The Line of Fire on the Salem Radio Network. He is also president of FIRE School of Ministry and director of the Coalition of Conscience. He is also a regular contributor to Charisma Magazine.

Dr. James White is a director of Alpha and Omega Ministries in Phoenix, Arizona. He is a professor, having taught Greek, Systematic Theology, and various topics in the field of apologetics for numerous schools. ...


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www.revelationtv.com

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Brown vs White: Divine Healing • 390+
Trevor Hammack | Victory Baptist Church
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· Page 1 ·  Found: 99 user comment(s)
News Item1/26/14 9:09 AM
Feeling  Find all comments by Feeling
John Beechy wrote:
"If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar:"
I think this is the point.
You mean like all the hateful posts you write against the Calv believers on this forum? So very loving of you!
99

News Item1/26/14 1:09 AM
John Beechy  Find all comments by John Beechy
MCS wrote:
.....and your point is?....
"He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes."

"We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."

"If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar:"

I think this is the point.

98

News Item1/25/14 11:36 PM
MCS  Find all comments by MCS
get real wrote:
you calvinists produce such disenchanted persons as chris hedges, i blame you all who are calvinists for such people, burn anyone at the stake with green wood lately?
you are the meanest and nastiest people without pity and lacking in humanity and compassion ...
.....and your point is?....
97

News Item1/25/14 11:01 PM
get real | earth  Find all comments by get real
you calvinists produce such disenchanted persons as chris hedges, i blame you all who are calvinists for such people, burn anyone at the stake with green wood lately?
you are the meanest and nastiest people without pity and lacking in humanity and compassion ...
96

News Item1/25/14 8:48 PM
Lookie here  Find all comments by Lookie here
get real wrote:
Proverbs 24:17-18 says:
“Do not rejoice when your enemy falls and do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles; or the Lord will see and be displeased and turn His anger away from him.”
Eph 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

According to some mindless people here God has chosen everyone, despite the fact that very clear verses speak of believers being chosen before the foundation of the world. Who does the choosing in these verses? Whose will is preeminent? Who made us accepted in the beloved?

Dumb free willers have no biblical answers, just their rebellion against its teaching.

95

News Item1/25/14 8:36 PM
get real | earth  Find all comments by get real
John for JESUS wrote:
I find the title of the debate curious, Predestination - For Whom Did Christ Die? Considering the six verses that mention predestination don't say. I guess James White will have to pretend God predestined to love a few arbitrary people for the sake of argument. For God so loved the few, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever is made to believe in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. (John Calvin 3:16)
john calvin is an unrepentant murderer and only murderers follow him, see how they love the fact that in their world almost everyone burns except them and a few choice friends, murderers ...

Proverbs 24:17-18 says:

“Do not rejoice when your enemy falls and do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles; or the Lord will see and be displeased and turn His anger away from him.”

they love to rejoice in the imagined destruction of the "Armenians"

94

News Item1/25/14 8:34 PM
Thinking logically  Find all comments by Thinking logically
Mike wrote:
I wonder if it is heretical to imply that the effect of Adam's sin is greater than the effect of the Lord's death and resurrection?
Think about the logical conclusion of what you are suggesting.

All of Adam's posterity fell with him, without having a say! Are you now suggesting that all of humanity is saved by the death of Christ irrespective of whether one believes or not? And that to believe otherwise is heresy?!

93

News Item1/25/14 8:07 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Calvinism is the Gospel wrote:
Jim. Your four/fifths of the Truth puts you in the realm of the dreaded Arminian. A Heresy!
"What did the death of Christ achieve? For whom did Christ die? In attempting to answer these questions about the atonement from Calvin’s own statements in the Institutes we shall show that Calvin subscribed to three key ideas. The first is that Christ’s death procured actual remission. On his view there are some people whose sins Christ actually remitted by his death. In the second place, all the elect, and they alone, have their sins actually remitted by the death of Christ. That is to say, the effect of the death of Christ is to atone for the sins of a definite number of people (and in this sense it is proper to speak of limited atonement). The third key idea is that Calvin expressly teaches that it was the intention of Christ, in dying, to procure an atonement for the elect. The salvation of the elect is something that can be directly related to what Christ by his death intended." (Paul Helm)
http://www.the-highway.com/articleJuly02.html
I wonder if it is heretical to imply that the effect of Adam's sin is greater than the effect of the Lord's death and resurrection?
92

News Item1/25/14 3:27 PM
Calvinism is the Gospel  Find all comments by Calvinism is the Gospel
Jim Lincoln wrote:
Limited Atonement
Jim. Your four/fifths of the Truth puts you in the realm of the dreaded Arminian. A Heresy!

"What did the death of Christ achieve? For whom did Christ die? In attempting to answer these questions about the atonement from Calvin’s own statements in the Institutes we shall show that Calvin subscribed to three key ideas. The first is that Christ’s death procured actual remission. On his view there are some people whose sins Christ actually remitted by his death. In the second place, all the elect, and they alone, have their sins actually remitted by the death of Christ. That is to say, the effect of the death of Christ is to atone for the sins of a definite number of people (and in this sense it is proper to speak of limited atonement). The third key idea is that Calvin expressly teaches that it was the intention of Christ, in dying, to procure an atonement for the elect. The salvation of the elect is something that can be directly related to what Christ by his death intended." (Paul Helm)
http://www.the-highway.com/articleJuly02.html

91

News Item1/25/14 3:03 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Limited Atonement was not a part of Calvin's theology, it's a part of Reformed theology, an unbiblical part of it. But, Calvinism is [not] the Gospel, you're other statements are quite good. Pelagianism and semi-Pelagianism were very well explained in a class I had, Calvin's Theology (PDF) lots of graphics and pictures, so it isn't a dry commentary!

Oh, and as far as gifts are concerned, Temporary Gifts the Spirit Gave. All too many people don't realize Some Gifts Not Present Today.

90

News Item1/25/14 10:32 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Sometimes the flower children confuse themselves with Calvinists.
89

News Item1/25/14 9:59 AM
Calvinism is the Gospel  Find all comments by Calvinism is the Gospel
I watched the debate last night on Predestination. It quite amused me that most of the points are what we debate here on SermonAudio, When we Calvinists are trying to teach the Arminians what the Bible really says.

As per usual the Calvinist, White, was correctly interpreting Scripture.

And as per usual the Arminian, Brown, was trying to ...
1) Decrease God's authority.
2) Inflate the sinners potential. Save thyself"?
3) Presume faith to be human effort/works; - IE Less of God.
4) Insinuate the sinner is not quite as sinful, as they are; - Thereby minimize sin.
5) Dilute and diminish the Atonement - by stretching it beyond reason.

Truly it is said that Arminian theory is the seed of Liberalism. They have come full circle and brought back Pelagianism to the church.

"Dr. Leighton calls Arminianism "the Pope's Benjamin, the last and greatest monster of the man of sin; the elixir of Anti- Christianism; the mystery of the mystery of iniquity; the Pope's cabinet; the very quintessence of equivocation." Alike hereunto Mr. Rous (Master of Eton College) addeth, saying, "Arminianism is the spawn of Popery, which the warmth of favour may easily turn into frogs of the bottomless pit." (Christopher Ness)

88

News Item1/23/14 4:47 PM
MCS  Find all comments by MCS
1 of John UK imaginary friends wrote:
la la la la la la la la
You have gone over the edge CAB
87

News Item1/23/14 4:39 PM
John for JESUS | ATL  Find all comments by John for JESUS
The funny thing to me is, when one actually goes to the bible verses shown in Canons of Dort and the WCF, they never say what the points suggest they do.
86

News Item1/23/14 4:23 PM
1 of John UK imaginary friends  Find all comments by 1 of John UK imaginary friends
la la la la la la la la
85

News Item1/23/14 3:37 PM
Revelation TV | Revelation TV  Find all comments by Revelation TV
In the US The debates above can be viewed (as always no fee) 9pm US east coast (EST) at www.revelationtv.com or on a television using the Popular ROKU BOX .
The promo above does not mention the time zone but all times are US east coast (EST)
84

News Item1/23/14 3:22 PM
CAB  Find all comments by CAB
Five Pointer wrote:
1. 1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Cor 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
See also Eph 4:18.
2. TULIP is entirely Biblical for those who can see.
Canons of Dordt
1st Head Art 6. "That some receive the gift of faith from God, and others do not receive it proceeds from God's eternal decree, "For known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world," Acts 15:18."Who worketh all things after the counsel of his will," Ephesians 1:11.According to which decree, he graciously softens the hearts of the elect, however obstinate, and inclines them to believe, while he leaves the non-elect in his just judgment to their own wickedness and obduracy."
So how do you propose to harmonize my scriptures and yours? We're supposed to let the Holy Spirit, not Dort, interpret scripture.

Dort does not move me.

We are talking about total depravity, inability to believe in God. Scripture says God reveals himself in his creation to everyone, and there is no excuse for anyone not to believe in God.

83

News Item1/23/14 3:05 PM
Five Pointer | IN the Truth  Find all comments by Five Pointer
CAB wrote:
1. Romans says God reveals himself in his Creation, so there is no excuse for anybody not to believe in Him.

2. Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited (bloodless) atonement, Irresistable grace, Preservation (OSAS) are all heresies.
Harmonize, don't wrest, scripture.

1. 1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Cor 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
See also Eph 4:18.

2. TULIP is entirely Biblical for those who can see.
Canons of Dordt
1st Head Art 6. "That some receive the gift of faith from God, and others do not receive it proceeds from God's eternal decree, "For known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world," Acts 15:18."Who worketh all things after the counsel of his will," Ephesians 1:11.According to which decree, he graciously softens the hearts of the elect, however obstinate, and inclines them to believe, while he leaves the non-elect in his just judgment to their own wickedness and obduracy."

82

News Item1/23/14 2:25 PM
CAB  Find all comments by CAB
Five Pointer iaw Bible wrote:
I am Presbyterian! I am Calvinist! I am a True Biblical Christian, By the sovereign Grace of God. Here are some edifying words for you.
WCF 9/3 Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation;a so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good,b and dead in sin,c is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.
Romans says God reveals himself in his Creation, so there is no excuse for anybody not to believe in Him.

Romans 1:17-20

17...as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold (hold back) the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are WITHOUT EXCUSE:

Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited (bloodless) atonement, Irresistable grace, Preservation (OSAS) are all heresies.

Harmonize, don't wrest, scripture.

81

News Item1/23/14 1:31 PM
Five Pointer iaw Bible  Find all comments by Five Pointer iaw Bible
CAB wrote:
Is that you UK John?
Definitely NOT!!!

I am Presbyterian!
I am Calvinist!
In other words I am a True Biblical Christian, By the sovereign Grace of God.

Here are some edifying words for you.

WCF 9/3 Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation;a so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good,b and dead in sin,c is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.d

* a. John 15:5; Rom 5:6; 8:7.
• b. Rom 3:10, 12.
• c. Eph 2:1, 5; Col 2:13.
• d. John 6:44, 65; 1 Cor 2:14; Eph 2:2-5; Titus 3:3-5.

80
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