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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  9/17/2014
THURSDAY, DEC 19, 2013  |  75 comments
U.S. Army seeks removal of Lee, ‘Stonewall’ Jackson honors
The U.S. Army War College, which molds future field generals, has begun discussing whether it should remove its portraits of Confederate generals — including those of Robert E. Lee and Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson.

Nestled in rural Pennsylvania on the 500-acre Carlisle Barracks, the war college is conducting an inventory of all its paintings and photographs with an eye for rehanging them in historical themes to tell a particular Army story.

During the inventory, an unidentified official — not the commandant, Maj. Gen. Anthony A. Cucolo III — asked the administration why the college honors two generals who fought against the United States, college spokeswoman Carol Kerr said.

“I do know at least one person has questioned why we would honor individuals who were enemies of the United States Army,” Ms. Kerr said. “There will be a dialogue when we develop the idea of what do we want the hallway to ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 75 user comment(s)
News Item1/3/14 1:05 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
This may be the last day to see, easily, the video about-- American Experience: Robert E. Lee--on PBS! It's very informative and well done.
75

News Item12/21/13 2:02 PM
Marty McDonalds | usa  Find all comments by Marty McDonalds
Neil wrote:
But neither does one owner have the right to loot some assets of his partner(s) after he chooses to leave.
Agreed
74

News Item12/21/13 1:52 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
pennned wrote:
her ancestors were the ones who brought the slaves in in the north. she discovered whole towns in the north had their jobs based around the slave trade.
then former slaves not given land after war.
Of course the North profited from the slave trade & was racist. This does not excuse Southern Secession & war, however.

Ironically, Sherman was a racist yet gave freed slaves land confiscated from Southerners. I think he was countermanded later by Andrew Johnson.

John Brown was probably the only American of record then who had no problems with blacks as neighbors. He was probably the only Abolitionist who took the Bible seriously regarding social relations. For the rest, freed slaves meant competition for labor, which is why blacks were mostly unwelcome in the North & why trade unions, for years after, were racist.

73

News Item12/21/13 1:38 PM
pennned  Find all comments by pennned
the union of the states was conditional on the terms of the constitution.

was listening to a journalist who found out her ancestors were the ones who brought the slaves in in the north. she discovered whole towns in the north had their jobs based around the slave trade.

then former slaves not given land after war.

whole thing seems questionable to me.

there were some abolitionists and people who ran the underground railroad -- so some had their eyes open. usually most keep their eyes closed, even today to more subtle forms of slavery.

72

News Item12/21/13 1:29 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Marty McDonalds wrote:
I might add, corporations are perpetual too, but that doesn't lock owners into the corporation for life.
But neither does one owner have the right to loot some assets of his partner(s) after he chooses to leave. This is what the Rebels did after Secession: unilaterally confiscate Federal properties (also including Ft. Pickens in FL). Jefferson Davis, to his credit, resisted doing this, knowing it would make the South morally culpable.

And your analogy assumes the breakup is amicable & freely negotiated.

71

News Item12/21/13 1:11 PM
Marty McDonalds | usa  Find all comments by Marty McDonalds
Neil wrote:
Even *if* the South had the right to secede, which stands upon a disputable matter of vocabulary in the Articles of Confederation & the Constitution Preamble, they still had no good reason to secede before Lincoln even took office.
The Constitution does talk about a more perfect union, for sure, but interpreting that to mean that someone doesn't need to expressly volunteer away their ability to leave the Union would be a very, very liberal construction. I, for one, wouldn't want to stand on that foundation. The AOC do talk about a "perpetual Union," but I think the proper rendering of that clause would mean that the AOC don't need to be renewed. This is just my personal observation, but, in all other areas of contract (corporate or individual), substantive rights are not surrendered without clear intent.

Otherwise, I take no issue with anything else you wrote thereafter.

Edited Addition: I might add, corporations are perpetual too, but that doesn't lock owners into the corporation for life.

70

News Item12/21/13 12:41 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Marty McDonalds wrote:
Sophistry isn't an adequate alternative for contract formation. If an entity voluntarily enters into a larger entity, and never gives up the right to leave, well... tough luck.
Even *if* the South had the right to secede, which stands upon a disputable matter of vocabulary in the Articles of Confederation & the Constitution Preamble, they still had no good reason to secede before Lincoln even took office. For no rational system of justice passes judgement on what someone *might* do. During the 1860 election, Lincoln was slandered as a "Black" Republican even by his racist Northern opponents. No wonder the South, terrified by the fear of more John Browns, swallowed these lies whole. Actually, Lincoln didn't believe blacks & whites could live in harmony together, hence his Liberia emigration proposal.

GsTexas, my shorthand assessment is, one will find religious Pharisees in the South, & Sadducees everywhere else.

69

News Item12/21/13 11:24 AM
GsTexas | Texas  Find all comments by GsTexas
Neil wrote:
This is why I don't want to be associated with you Stars & Bars cranks. Biblical Christianity by itself is unpopular enough already without adding Flat Earth type causes.

Since I live in the south, I see the dumb redneck version of Christianity all the time. Its really pathetic. (I'm not in anyway referring to Marty). If you don't know what I'm referring to, just listen to country music. Somehow theyre Christian because they go to church every Sunday like a good Southerner does, but the night before they were out living like the devil.

68

News Item12/21/13 10:58 AM
Marty McDonalds | usa  Find all comments by Marty McDonalds
Neil wrote:
Rubbish; Alan Guelzo, a prominent Lincoln scholar, refutes that nonsense:
www.heritage.org/research/reports/2012/02/abraham-lincoln-was-not-the-father-of-big-government
Mike, Lincoln was right: “Plainly, the central idea of secession, is the essence of anarchy.”
Neil, I'll listen to Alan Guelzo in the next few days. I'm not against having my mind changed.

I don't like the Lincoln quote you put up. He probably didn't want to be associated with the decreased size of the U.S. Contracts are contracts, and words are words. It doesn't matter how people "feel" about secession. Sophistry isn't an adequate alternative for contract formation. If an entity voluntarily enters into a larger entity, and never gives up the right to leave, well... tough luck. I know people don't appreciate the idea, but let's not get liberal with our handling of law. This isn't just an important mindset for the laws of men, but also with respect to how we handle the Law of God. Giving up an important right requires some kind of clear intent, that's universally true for all human contracts.

67

News Item12/21/13 10:16 AM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Mr. Marty McD wrote:
His actions gave birth to the imperial presidency and the federal centralisation of power.
Rubbish; Alan Guelzo, a prominent Lincoln scholar, refutes that nonsense:
www.heritage.org/research/reports/2012/02/abraham-lincoln-was-not-the-father-of-big-government

Mike, Lincoln was right: “Plainly, the central idea of secession, is the essence of anarchy.”

This Lost Cause stuff gives ammunition to satirists who marginalize conservative Christians as a bunch of racist wackos:
www.amazon.com/Better-Off-Without-Manifesto-Secession/dp/145161666X

This is why I don't want to be associated with you Stars & Bars cranks. Biblical Christianity by itself is unpopular enough already without adding Flat Earth type causes.

66

News Item12/20/13 3:49 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
GsTexas wrote:
How is the civil war Abe Lincolns fault? Nobody forced the south to succeed, and the south fired the first shots anyways.
The so called Civil War, (someone had a sense of humor) was never Lincoln's fault. History unfolds and drags presidents in. What they do with it is what they do with it.

I remember my kids saying "He hit me first." Hardly mattered to me who did, since it usually built up to the point of blame prior to the finger pointing.

The question for me is, if you voluntarily join an organization, do you lose the right to leave it if the forbidding of leaving is not codified in law? The Mafia would say, you can't leave; it makes them look weak and not in control. But the country is not the Mafia, nor has it ever been. Today some in DC perhaps envy them?

65

News Item12/20/13 1:22 PM
GsTexas | Texas  Find all comments by GsTexas
How is the civil war Abe Lincolns fault? Nobody forced the south to succeed, and the south fired the first shots anyways.
64

News Item12/20/13 1:09 PM
Mr. Marty McD | usa  Find all comments by Mr. Marty McD
His actions gave birth to the imperial presidency and the federal centralisation of power. Sure, the FED, income tax, Bretton Woods, Monroe Doctrine grew statism too but it started in 1861. I hate racist slavery but I also hate statism and lawlessness. One evil deed isn't purified by the elimination of another evil deed. 1800 years after Christ and still an entire nation, North and south, didn't know how to act righteously and in meekness.
63

News Item12/20/13 12:51 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Mr. Marty McD wrote:
Of course it's pure speculation, but it's almost certainly an accurate projection.
Can't be proven. As I said, Americans had no problem treating blacks as subhuman for another century after the War ended. No “Christian” Confederates I've met appreciate how demoralizing this social treatment can be. No wonder blacks support demagogues like Jackson & Obama today, for they learned not to trust White Men. Yet you people continue to strain legal gnats about supposed Constitutional trangressions by Lincoln.

Mike, as I said, the Emancipation was the most Lincoln could legally do under his circumstances; this reinforces the idea that he was no tyrant. And read Frederick Douglass's bio if you think this was a small matter for people under the lash. Do you have the guts to read it? Painful stuff.

Why can't people briefed in Scripture see how horrific the injustice meted out to black people was, before & since the War? I think it was worse than the Soviet GULAG; zeks at least had a limited sentence, if they survived.

62

News Item12/20/13 11:23 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John Yurich USA wrote:
If Lincoln had compromised then slavery would have continued.
He did compromise. The highly principled Emancipation Proclamation emancipated the slaves in the States supporting the Confederacy, but not in the slave-holding States supporting the Union. How much compromise do you want?
61

News Item12/20/13 11:10 AM
Mr. Marty McD | usa  Find all comments by Mr. Marty McD
Of course it's pure speculation, but it's almost certainly an accurate projection. The US was on the tail end of abolition and the world just kept getting more industrialized. Who would seriously believe that an Independent South would still be practicing chattel slavery after the turn of the century? Perhaps radicals on MSNBC. With regard to your question, I think secession was a knee knee - jerk stunt (though not illegal under an 1861 constitution) which resulted in a national cataclysmic event. If a better man than Abe was in office 1861-65 could of been better years.
60

News Item12/20/13 9:49 AM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Mr. Marty McD wrote:
My point, ad nauseum, the war was avoidable and unnecessary. I don't justify slave owners.
I do read your posts, but you're shifting ground or adding things now. Sure the War was avoidable, but the South started it. Was Prez Lincoln supposed to lie down & tolerate unprovoked aggression against Federal property? And you affirm, then, that Secession was unjustified?

American isn't Brazil. BTW, many Latin American countries outlawed slavery before we did. It is pure speculation to say slavery would've ended by 1900 (that sounds like something Rushdoony claimed). The South was making a mint selling slave-harvested cotton, tried to use that to bring Britain onto their side, & continued to exploit blacks by back-door slavery after the War. Of course the North also practiced segregation for another century.

59

News Item12/20/13 8:50 AM
Mr. Marty McD | usa  Find all comments by Mr. Marty McD
*It would of died over time. .. like in Brazil
58

News Item12/20/13 8:49 AM
Mr. Marty McD | usa  Find all comments by Mr. Marty McD
Well JY, he tried to compromise on slavery, even in 1865. The end of slavery is good. I'm not debating that at all. I'm debating the unbiblical means used to end slavery. Slavery had already been phasing out since the sixteenth century. The mid-1800s saw the rise of the machine economy, slavery was no longer just immoral, it was becoming untenable economically. If a more even keeled man was elected, it would of kept died over time without secession or war.
57

News Item12/20/13 8:34 AM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Mr. Marty McD wrote:
Neil. Please read my posts. I know who started the war. Also, I know Lincoln won a fair election. My point, ad nauseum, the war was avoidable and unnecessary. I don't justify slave owners. But, this cataclysmic event didn't need to happen. As a modest offering, Lincoln could of maintained the Union by not seeking office, and there would of been no new orphans and widows. Also assuredly, slavery in the south would of ended before 1900, as with almost every other Occidental nation. Millions of dead and maimed Christians, thousands of orphans and widows, unrivaled property destruction, centralisation of power, statism, and a racial tear that has never been healed are all legacies of his activities. Ok, so Jefferson Davis was bad too, so what? You're not in public defending that villain, but you do defend Lincoln. Who's next Mandela, FDR or some other progressive hero?
If Lincoln had compromised then slavery would have continued.
56
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