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WEDNESDAY, APRIL 23, 2014 | TIPS Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
COVER Page ALL News CHOICE VIDEOS User COMMENTS
THURSDAY, DEC 12, 2013| 285 comments| 1 commentary
Why Are So Many Pastors Committing Suicide?

In another church tragedy, Pastor Isaac Hunter—the son of the spiritual adviser to President Obama—has reportedly taken his own life. Hunter’s death is making national headlines because of his megachurch father Pastor Joel Hunter’s influence on the White House, his marriage troubles and an undated suicide note found last year, but his death is far from the only pastoral suicide in recent months.

Just days ago, a pastor who was grieving his dead wife reportedly shot himself in front of his mother and son, expressing that he was hearing his dead spouse’s voice and footsteps. Pastor Ed Montgomery and his late wife, prophetess Jackie Montgomery, served at the Full Gospel Assemblies International church in Hazel Crest, Ill.

In November, a Georgia pastor killed himself in between Sunday services. Larrinecia Sims Parker, wife of the Rev. Teddy Parker Jr., found the pastor in the driveway of their home ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 285 user comment(s)
News Item12/22/13 4:34 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
SteveR wrote:
You are welcome back anytime
It is a strange day indeed when I would agree with SteveR.

However, yes sister, please feel free to post anytime.

285

News Item12/21/13 5:45 PM
Observer  Find all comments by Observer
Mourner

That was a very touching post, and I can see now that I have misjudged you.

Like you I have been badly treated, not by Baptists, but by Presbys who knew that my Scriptural convictions were different from theirs.

This may help to explain the strength of my feelings toward the denomination generally. Not that I discount all Presbys on that count. I recognise that The Lord has many of his own people in their ranks. They may be mistaken in doctrine but if they are THE LORD's people I love them all the same.

Now that you have made peace it would be a great shame to leave. As John UK has said you will find a home here with the Lords true people who will love and support you, even if we disagree on some doctrinal matters. Now that I see you in a new light I shall be in the front rank to help and support you in whatever way I can.

I hope that you can be persuaded to stay and if so look forward to having a friendlier interaction with you.

Blessings to you dear sister.

284

News Item12/21/13 5:27 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
mourner wrote:
I can now look to the Christian Sabbath with a clear conscience and rejoice in God my Savior Psalm 36:5-12
Mourner, I grieve over your incredibly difficult home life, your isolation and lack of church to attend, and possibly poor health also. However, you shut yourself off from the bulk of God's people. They are still the Lord's people, even if they differ from you. Heaven will be full of folks who differed from you on earth, but the one common thing is a new birth and enlightenment from the Lord himself. This means that the Lord loves all those who are born again of his Spirit, and yet you will have no truck with them.

There are a great multitude, as Revelation says, who are washed in the blood of the Lamb, making their clothes white. If you find it hard to talk to them on earth, you are saying that in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump, you will be changed and be able to love those whom God has loved. Why not now?

I fully realise that you have been badly affected by experiences at church, but so have many others. It is not right to just give up and immerse yourself in Rutherford and live in a dream world of the 16th century. God loves you but disagrees with your isolation.

283

News Item12/21/13 5:09 PM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
mourner wrote:
I do not understand what you believe and I should not have assumed that I did. It was my error, I am sorry.
Sirs:
I have prepared a response but have decided it unwise. I have purposely tried to avoid teaching/preaching. I am a woman and Reformed Christians (who are Presbyterian in their judgment) DO NOT allow a woman to teach. If I quoted others here, I'm not Biblical and depend on others teaching, if I use Scripture I'm unclear, if I speak my own thoughts I don't articulate clearly and am easily misunderstood.
I now take my leave of SA and pray the Lord will grant me the grace to walk worthy of Him as the Reformed Christian woman, I am. True offense is sin, if I have offended in Christ's eyes for being out of my place, calling and station, then I have learned a hard lesson. May my difficult road ahead that is best known to Him, have his grace and favour and my prayer is that 1 Peter 2:19-25 would be true of me.
I can now look to the Christian Sabbath with a clear conscience and rejoice in God my Savior Psalm 36:5-12
You are welcome back anytime
282

News Item12/21/13 5:02 PM
mourner  Find all comments by mourner
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
Mourner, from a post from a while back, I don't believe I have posted anything that would suggest that John UK and I disagree on foreknowledge.
I do not understand what you believe and I should not have assumed that I did. It was my error, I am sorry.

Sirs:

I have prepared a response but have decided it unwise. I have purposely tried to avoid teaching/preaching. I am a woman and Reformed Christians (who are Presbyterian in their judgment) DO NOT allow a woman to teach. If I quoted others here, I'm not Biblical and depend on others teaching, if I use Scripture I'm unclear, if I speak my own thoughts I don't articulate clearly and am easily misunderstood.

I now take my leave of SA and pray the Lord will grant me the grace to walk worthy of Him as the Reformed Christian woman, I am. True offense is sin, if I have offended in Christ's eyes for being out of my place, calling and station, then I have learned a hard lesson. May my difficult road ahead that is best known to Him, have his grace and favour and my prayer is that 1 Peter 2:19-25 would be true of me.

I can now look to the Christian Sabbath with a clear conscience and rejoice in God my Savior Psalm 36:5-12

281

News Item12/21/13 2:45 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Bench wrote:
Only the elect avoid hell.
Regardless of their efforts to do otherwise.
The unelect will go to hell regardless of their efforts to presume otherwise.
As for suicide. The (reprobate) murderer kills another person and is executed. When he is sent to hell in the "afterlife" is he sent there because of the murder act, or because he is unelect, or because he is a sinner.
The murder victim was brought up in a muslim society and never knew Christ, he too was sent to hell.
Is the act of suicide the same as the murderer? Or the same as the victim of murder? Or do you provide him with some other mitigation "because" of his act?
Bench, thanks for the post. Maybe you were missing my point, which John UK understood, because, to be honest, I sure am missing yours.

Mourner, from a post from a while back, I don't believe I have posted anything that would suggest that John UK and I disagree on foreknowledge. I believe John was talking about particular redemption in his question and I agreed with his statement and what he also afterward posted. I would be glad to consider that if you could point it out. thanks

280

News Item12/21/13 11:42 AM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
John UK wrote:
Nay, salvation is found in Christ or, to word it better, Christ brings his salvation to his blood-bought people, chosen in him before the foundation of the world.
It is not possible for the Jesus People to perish.
Those who imagine it is the case, have not seen the glory of the completed work of Jesus Christ at Calvary. They imagine that they still have to add one or two little obediences to his work, and keep from any disobediences. Such folks need to read Galatians 3, where Paul says....well, read it for yourself.
Well said brother! The moment I was given to the Son, I had eternal life.

[47] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. (Jhn 6:47KJV)

[51] Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. (Jhn 8:51 KJV)

[25] Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: (Jhn 11:25 KJV)

[37] All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. [44] No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jhn 6:37, 44 KJV)

279

News Item12/21/13 11:03 AM
Bench  Find all comments by Bench
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
A sister who was saved from a life of alcoholism, due to hardships she is facing, goes to a bar and gets drunk. (something she had victory over before) On the way home she is killed in a car accident, does she end up in hell for her indiscretion?
A brother .....
Does he end up in hell for his actions?
A brother ......
Is he now destine for hell?
Only the elect avoid hell.
Regardless of their efforts to do otherwise.
The unelect will go to hell regardless of their efforts to presume otherwise.

As for suicide. The (reprobate) murderer kills another person and is executed. When he is sent to hell in the "afterlife" is he sent there because of the murder act, or because he is unelect, or because he is a sinner.
The murder victim was brought up in a muslim society and never knew Christ, he too was sent to hell.

Is the act of suicide the same as the murderer? Or the same as the victim of murder? Or do you provide him with some other mitigation "because" of his act?

278

News Item12/21/13 10:25 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
to others sorry about the repeat
to Jussano
Here are some scenarios for you
No need to apologise US, it is well worth repeating. Unforunately, these scenarios will never be answered because they make so clear that their bold statements are nonsensical. We're dealing here with folks who are not yet Christians. They are of such sort as must needs have baptism as a child, and last rights as a dying person. They try to live the Christian life with an adamic nature, and are quite unaware of their multitude of sins committed every day of their life.
277

News Item12/21/13 10:13 AM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Jussano wrote:
.."murderers shall not inherit the kingdom of heaven"? ...
to others sorry about the repeat

to Jussano

Here are some scenarios for you

A sister who was saved from a life of alcoholism, due to hardships she is facing, goes to a bar and gets drunk. (something she had victory over before) On the way home she is killed in a car accident, does she end up in hell for her indiscretion?

A brother has an argument with his spouse. He says some angry words. Before they have a chance to kiss and make up, he dies of a sudden heart attack. Does he end up in hell for his actions?

A brother comes out to view the damage from the tornado at his house. He notes the house of his neighbor has very little damage and is a bit envious due to all the damage his house sustained. At that moment a tree limb falls upon his head and kills him. Is he now destine for hell?

These, and other examples could be given, are violations of the SAME Scriptures you are quoting to condemn to hell the one who commits murder.

We have more than one example in Scripture of those who committed murder being saved. Do you not think that the blood of Christ would also be sufficient for the sin of suicide of one of His sheep?

276

News Item12/21/13 10:09 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Jussano wrote:
Pascal would never place this bet.
I haven't placed a bet since my conversion.

Not because to do so would render me liable for eternal punishment, but because I have a new nature and a love for God, who has promised to provide for me.

The RCC and other wretched cults imprison their followers with warnings about hell for any who depart their midst. They claim that salvation is found in the church.

Nay, salvation is found in Christ or, to word it better, Christ brings his salvation to his blood-bought people, chosen in him before the foundation of the world.

It is not possible for the Jesus People to perish.

Those who imagine it is the case, have not seen the glory of the completed work of Jesus Christ at Calvary. They imagine that they still have to add one or two little obediences to his work, and keep from any disobediences. Such folks need to read Galatians 3, where Paul says....well, read it for yourself.

275

News Item12/21/13 9:10 AM
Jussano  Find all comments by Jussano
Pascal's Wager cuts both ways. On one hand, the worst case for a Christian is to die and discover there's no God. Which isn't really the worst. But on the other hand, why wouldn't the Christian who self-murders, discover that God truly stands by his word that "murderers shall not in herit the kingdom of heaven"? Especially in the aftermath of this string of pastors-who-murdered, no one should even hint that they're somehow in heaven lest others unwittingly also follow them into the abyss. This wager would be eternal and devastating and truly the worst case scenario.

Pascal would never place this bet.

274

News Item12/21/13 5:06 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mourner
Four days ago I wrote: "However, the particular baptist believes that Christ died particularly for folks whom God knew inside out from eternity past. He knew what their life would be like before conversion, and he knew what they would be like after conversion. And upon the cross he bore all their sins away, paid the price, redeemed them. Every last sin was paid for, because God knew what all those sins would be. God is never caught out with unexpected sins of his people."

What sort of unexpected sins was I talking about? Well it could be anything, from King David's adultery to Abram's lies to taking one's own life.

You see, there is a minority of posters who imagine that God is caught out when one of his people sins. And at that point, unless it is repented of, it condemns to hell.

Now read my statement again. And see it in the light of the verse you quoted, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated".

Now think of it in terms of the day when Christ Jesus atoned for the sins of all his people. Did God know every last sin that his people would commit, including (sadly) the suicide of some? Of course. And did Jesus atone for every last sin? Of course. Can any sin now damn a child of God to hell? No!

See now?

273

News Item12/20/13 6:25 PM
Observer  Find all comments by Observer
mourner wrote:
Do you? I am Presbyterian in my judgment. Do you know what that means?
Only too well!

mourner wrote:
..I found the teaching and preaching that years of Scripture reading of both Testaments convinced me first hearing a sermon on Exclusive Psalmody. You worry your slanderous accusations and I'll worry about my misunderstanding UPS
What slanderous accusations exactly? And were they any worse than your accusation against John UK?

mourner wrote:
I believe the civil sword in a nation privileged with the gospel is to punish evil and reward good according to the Scripture. ... I have suffered by the hands of Anabaptists that have turned me either over to the civil sword on false accuations or by looking the other way
Can't compute. You believe in the civil sword, but resent being turned over to it?! You've come across Anabaptists? Or is this your derogatory term for Baptists?

mourner wrote:
.. when what was necessary to sustain my life was withheld by an Anabaptist/Papist and I have turned the other cheek Rom.12:19-21.
What the heck is an Anabaptist/Papist?

I hope what you believe is clearer than your post!

272

News Item12/20/13 6:12 PM
mourner  Find all comments by mourner
Observer wrote:
..I know you're a Presby, I understand your tactics.
Do you? I am Presbyterian in my judgment. Do you know what that means?
I am a Christian that came out of the
Church of Rome reading a bible and books to explain it. I wandered to a home bible study of ex papists, then to an Assembly of God Church, back to a home study, then having been persuaded of the doctrines of grace to a Calvinistic Baptist Church, then to a Reformed Baptist Church, until I found the teaching and preaching that years of Scripture reading of both Testaments convinced me first hearing a sermon on Exclusive Psalmody. You worry your slanderous accusations and I'll worry about my misunderstanding UPS

I believe the civil sword in a nation privileged with the gospel is to punish evil and reward good according to the Scripture. I believe the Ministry is to faithfully preach the truth and being a woman I dislike swords and guns because I'm not a man, nor a magistrate.

I have suffered by the hands of Anabaptists that have turned me either over to the civil sword on false accuations or by looking the other way when what was necessary to sustain my life was withheld by an Anabaptist/Papist and I have turned the other cheek Rom.12:19-21 My tactics.

271

News Item12/20/13 6:04 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mourner, are you confused by my 5.00pm post? Where I stated the Particular Baptist belief concerning why God chose certain ones? Are you consulting all your documents again, trying to find some information on PB's rather than AB's?

What think ye of Charles Haddon Spurgeon? He was a fairly well known preacher in England, and he was a Particular Baptist. Are you aware of that? Have you read his daily devotional here on SA? Try it. You may find your heart warming to Baptists instead of wanting to exterminate them all and enforce Presbyterianism on everyone. Wow such brainwashing you have experienced. The New Testament is full of exhortations to love, not kill. Even the Lord himself said to his followers, "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind." Not to drown them all.

No, the only persecution you find in the New Testament is by unregenerate men, such as Saul of Tarsus.

270

News Item12/20/13 5:28 PM
Observer  Find all comments by Observer
mourner wrote:
He said a particular baptist believes...did he not? and then he interpreted what he thought UPS said. UPS said Yes, John (implying that is what I meant). I didn't copy the whole of what was said, you can read it.
UPS did not respond to me, you did???
Where in do I err concerning what particular baptists believe regarding foreknowledge?
Now that I know you're a Presby, I understand your tactics. You had better behave yourself, or you might just raise my ire.

Have you ever studied anything or are you just like the other silly Presby who is forever spouting rubbish ad nauseam?

269

News Item12/20/13 5:18 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mourner, check out my edit at 5.00pm, and see if you agree with the Particular Baptist statement on God's foreknowledge concerning salvation.
268

News Item12/20/13 5:06 PM
mourner  Find all comments by mourner
Observer wrote:
I think you've read into John UK's statement something that was not there.
He said a particular baptist believes...did he not? and then he interpreted what he thought UPS said. UPS said Yes, John (implying that is what I meant). I didn't copy the whole of what was said, you can read it.

UPS did not respond to me, you did???
Where in do I err concerning what particular baptists believe regarding foreknowledge?

267

News Item12/20/13 5:00 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
mourner wrote:
This implies that it was God foreknowing what man would chose/do.
Mourner, now you are really showing your ignorance, and I would not have you continue in such a vein. I would far rather you knew the truth, than speculated about what others believe.

Do you REALLY not know what Particular Baptists believe?

Go study! Learn something. If you were to end up a Particular Baptist instead of a Presby, it would do you well. Why shelter in the folds of such a weird and persecuting people? Think about it, instead of looking up answers in your old manuscripts. Where in the NT do you have a warranty for God's people and the state to join forces? Hmmmmm?

Particular Baptist Confession 3/5
Those of mankind who are predestinated to life, God chose before the foundation of the world was laid, in accordance with His eternal and immutable purpose and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will. God chose them in Christ for everlasting glory, solely out of His free grace and love, without anything in the creature as a condition or cause moving Him to choose.

266
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