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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA News
FRONT PAGE  |  7/4/2015
FRIDAY, OCT 18, 2013  |  10 comments
France (Just Now) Decides Lord’s Prayer Is Blasphemous, Edits Bible
You may have thought that, after all of these years, the text of the Bible, and its subsequent translations, is probably pretty airtight. What certain passages mean is obviously an ongoing debate. But, you don’t hear most people clamoring for a line edit of the good book. Most people don’t live in France.

Fearing that Catholics in the country have been reciting a version of the Lord’s Prayer that could be heard as blasphemous, French bishops have decided to edit the French-language Bible to end any apparent confusion about worshipers’ intentions when taking the time to recite the prayer.

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The offending phrase? The Lord’s Prayer’s particularly high profile verse: "Lead us not into temptation." Here’s the rub, ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 10 user comment(s)
News Item10/19/13 2:45 PM
DANusa | USA  Find all comments by DANusa
Romans 3:4
10

News Item10/18/13 3:11 PM
Dawick  Find all comments by Dawick
There doesn't seem to be much of a difference between the two French phrases. But I wonder if we are loosing something in the French to English translation of soumets=submit???

KJV "lead us not into temptation" suffers from the same problem in bringing a Greek word into English construction. IE "eisphero" = "lead into"

The theology becomes difficult when we refuse to accept that God would ever bring us into temptation in the first place. However we then need to look at the word temptation in the Greek -
"peirasmos" From G3985; a putting to proof (by experiment [of good], experience [of evil], solicitation, discipline or provocation); by implication adversity: - temptation, X try."

Thus testing us!!

Does God test His people? Yes!

Our prayer then is a request to God to prevent us poor sinners from (naturally) succumbing to temptation to sin.

9

News Item10/18/13 2:57 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Almost all Bible versions have "temptation" in Matt. verse 6:13, this is what Barnes had to say about it:
Barnes Commentary wrote:
Matthew 6:13:
Verse 13. And lead us not into temptation. A petition similar to this is offered by David, Ps 141:4 "Incline not my heart to any evil thing, to practise wicked works with men that work iniquity." God tempts no man See Jas 1:13. This phrase, then, must be used in the sense of permitting. Do not suffer us, or permit us, to be tempted to sin. In this it is implied that God has such control over us and the tempter, as to save us from it if we call upon him. The word temptation, however, (Mt 4:1) means sometimes trial, affliction, anything that tests our virtue. If this be the meaning here, as it may be, then the import of the prayer is, "Do not afflict or try us." ...

[and for the doxology]
See 1Cor 14:16. It may be proper to remark, that this doxology, "for thine is the kingdom," etc., is wanting in many manuscripts, and that its authenticity is doubtful.

Some later versions of the Bible put the last part in brackets or whatever, e.g., Matthew 6:9-13
8

News Item10/18/13 10:51 AM
b4real  Find all comments by b4real
Christopher,

You're welcome

7

News Item10/18/13 10:29 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Thanks for that great info.
6

News Item10/18/13 9:50 AM
b4real  Find all comments by b4real
Christopher,
It would appear to be so - Adam Clarke says "The whole of this doxology is rejected by Wetstein, Griesbach, and the most eminent critics. The authorities on which it is rejected may be seen in Griesbach and, Wetstein, particularly in the second edition of Griesbach’s Testament, who is fully of opinion that it never made a part of the sacred text. It is variously written in several MSS., and omitted by most of the fathers, both Greek and Latin. As the doxology is at least very ancient, and was in use among the Jews, as well as all the other petitions of this excellent prayer, it should not, in my opinion, be left out of the text, merely because some MSS. have omitted it, and it has been variously written in others. See various forms of this doxology, taken from the ancient Jewish writers, in Lightfoot and Schoettgen." John Gill states "This conclusion is left out in the Arabic and Vulgate Latin versions, as it is in Luk_11:4. It stands thus in the Jewish prayers (d), "for the kingdom is thine", and thou shalt reign in glory for ever and ever.'
Seems to me this doxology should be included; ascribing glory to God is always acceptable!
5

News Item10/18/13 8:01 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
GsTexas wrote:
Most modern english translations don't even have the full Lords prayer. But the KJV does
The KJV doesn't have the "full" prayer in Luke 11.
4

News Item10/18/13 7:29 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
I think the headlibe is a bit misleading and don really see anything wrong with their view. They are concerned with the way in which the line had been translated into French, not with the intended meaning. Maybe I have it wrong, but that's how I'm reading it.

B4real, all this time I had downed the Roman church for leaving that particular phrase out of the prayer, but now see that it was probably a later addition anyway?

3

News Item10/18/13 1:43 AM
b4real  Find all comments by b4real
gs,
This is what I found concerning the omitting of 'for thine is the kingdom...' from JFB "If any reliance is to be placed on external evidence, this doxology, we think, can hardly be considered part of the original text. It is wanting in all the most ancient manuscripts; it is wanting in the Old Latin version and in the Vulgate: the former mounting up to about the middle of the second century, and the latter being a revision of it in the fourth century by Jerome, a most reverential and conservative as well as able and impartial critic. As might be expected from this, it is passed by in silence by the earliest Latin fathers; but even the Greek commentators, when expounding this prayer, pass by the doxology. On the other hand, it is found in a majority of manuscripts, though not the oldest; it is found in all the Syriac versions, even the Peschito - dating probably as early as the second century - although this version lacks the “Amen,” which the doxology, if genuine, could hardly have wanted; it is found in the Sahidic or Thebaic version made for the Christians of Upper Egypt, possibly as early as the Old Latin; and it is found in perhaps most of the later versions. On a review of the evidence, the strong probability, we think, is that it was no part of the original text."
2

News Item10/18/13 1:25 AM
GsTexas | Texas  Find all comments by GsTexas
Most modern english translations don't even have the full Lords prayer. But the KJV does
1
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