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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA News
FRONT PAGE  |  5/23/2015
THURSDAY, SEP 12, 2013  |  45 comments
ANALYSIS: Is ‘Just War’ doctrine another victim of the Syrian conflict?

Even as the world’s powers grasped for a last-minute resolution to the crisis in Syria, it remained an open question whether any amount of diplomacy could prevent the conflict from claiming at least one more victim: the classic Christian teaching known as the “just war” tradition.

The central problem is not that the just war doctrine is being dismissed or condemned, but that it is loved too much. Indeed, both sides in the debate over punishing the Syrian regime for using chemical weapons are citing just war theory, but are reaching diametrically opposed conclusions.

Nicholas Hahn III, a Catholic writer, declared Tuesday (Sept. 10) in the conservative journal First Things that “a classical reading of the just war tradition renders robust intervention in Syria a morally desirable act of charity.”

At the same time, the Catholic editor of that same magazine, R.R. Reno, has been writing forcefully ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 45 user comment(s)
News Item9/25/13 4:56 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
John Beechy wrote:
For those who need help:
"Christian" Warmongers
From the same website: "Women are not part of the Body of Christ which is the Church."

What is The Church?

45

News Item9/24/13 8:59 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Catholic "Just War Doctrine" is so vague & slippery, one can reach opposite conclusions easily in the same case. Another blind alley of Romanism. Now I'm not saying war questions always have easy answers, but I find it irritating that conservatives parrot this stuff as if it's The Word of God.

In the interest of full disclosure: David Gibson, the article's author, is a papist, since the byline fails to mention it. I'm amazed how much influence Catholic intellectuals seem to have in this country.

44

News Item9/24/13 8:43 PM
Warrior  Find all comments by Warrior
The Iraq was based on a lie, the Afganistan war was based on a lie, the Syrian war is based on a lie. Why do Christians support these wars? The poor man needs to be aware of involving his self in the affairs of the rich. Do not let yourself be consumed by fighting less you completely destroy each other.
43

News Item9/24/13 8:31 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
penny wrote:
.... please research the effects of DU and Gulf War Syndrome....

.... pointing to a generation that gave away the freedoms they inherited from their forefathers for the promise of security, trusting in the very ones who are taking those freedoms away.

.... our mil memb not allowed to speak of Christ....

What a mixed bag of ramblings. When you decide what arm of government you want to point a finger at..... do let me know and perhaps we can point fingers together.

But....... in the mean time, when I see a blood bought brother or sister being condemned to hell for disagreeing with an opinion I'll speak up every time and demand biblical justification. I would expect you to do the same but sadly you didn't.

42

News Item9/24/13 2:40 PM
penny  Find all comments by penny
US -- you haven't got a clue what I'm saying. You are not in a place to understand. I'm sorry, I'll just post as I'm able and leave it at that.
41

News Item9/24/13 1:39 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
penny wrote:
Lurker and US...
I will say I don't agree with your assessment of the opportunity of Christians to serve in the military but that is completely a side issue at this point. Agent orange and depleted uranium have absolutely nothing to do with Christians being martyred in the Middle East, which unless I am missing your point was the issue you were lamenting. Further I believe the information you are sourcing on both those is inaccurate. Where is the link between our persecuted brethren and our military? Our military is NOT killing believers in the Middle East the Muslims are. The current military that you despise is still guarding your freedoms and giving you this forum to run them down. The military is NOT the group giving away our freedoms, the politicians are. All that aside, John Beechy accusations against me are not in anyway in an attitude of Christian compassion and care. We all bemoan the goings on in the Middle East, well that would be what you have here if it was not for our CURRENT military. I have said before, I appreciate you and your post, but we certainly are not seeing eye to eye here. Thanks again for your input.
40

News Item9/24/13 11:38 AM
penny  Find all comments by penny
Lurker and US, it burdens me greatly to carry on this conversation. Gentlemen, we are in new times, we do not have what we once did. If you want to honor the present mil., you will have to listen more carefully. If you care for their honor as much as your own, please research the effects of DU and Gulf War Syndrome.... 12 years of this is the length of 3 wwii's. while our older generations have voted for it and called it God's will. I pray you will have as much concern for them and your brethren of the ME as you do your own honor that you think JB has taken. I do not think he is taking away anything but pointing to a generation that gave away the freedoms they inherited from their forefathers for the promise of security, trusting in the very ones who are taking those freedoms away. I would call it idolatry. If we cannot be a just generation, then we have only verified what some believe, that Christians never belong in these positions.... our mil memb not allowed to speak of Christ, you think under these conditions that speech among believers can continue on these venues? we are in a new age now. the information you can get now may be gone, as the talk is now, anonymity will not be acceptable. You have a window of opportunity.
39

News Item9/24/13 11:10 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
Thank you for your service for our country. Thank you for your godly and helpful insights here on SA. God bless you brother.
Thank you and you're welcome.

I hesitated whether it was wise to mention my service because of an incident several years ago here on SA. I was having a discusssion with another government hater hothead, mentioned my service and his reply was "Will you kill me too?" While I served many years before God called me in mercy, I thank Him for never allowing me to be in a position to need to take the life of another human being.

Anyway, I've seen the John Beechy types before..... More than willing to take advantage of the many rights, advantages, resources, infastructure, etc. available in the United States but thankful to God for none. A black hole which ever consumes and gives nothing back.

38

News Item9/24/13 5:36 AM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Lurker wrote:
Did I say anything about the military aside from noting John B.'s obvious disdain for anything government? Why do you think you can read my mind when you don't even absorb what I wrote?
My gripe is this. John B. (and you for that matter) is entitled to his opinion but when he accuses one who doesn't hold to his opinion of partaking in "wicked heathen religion of Statism" and the many other insulting remarks; a biblical argument upholding those very serious charges is in order.
If John B. were a Christian he would be compelled by the HS to lovingly show US his error from scripture. Instead he rails against God's people like the extremist he actually is. And you, jpw, have tossed your hat in his ring most likely because you have similar views of our military while being completely oblivious of his unGodly militant spirit.
Beware, sister, for 'how' something is said is every bit as important as 'what' is said.
For what it's worth, I gave 13 years of my life in the military service of this country so my dues are paid. How about you? Or John B.?
Thank you for your service for our country. Thank you for your godly and helpful insights here on SA. God bless you brother.
37

News Item9/23/13 9:34 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
penny wrote:
Lurker, I know you may think you are honoring our military, but I see it quite the opposite. I see it as dishonor.
I wasn't baiting a bit.
I still consider my question a legitimate one.
Did I say anything about the military aside from noting John B.'s obvious disdain for anything government? Why do you think you can read my mind when you don't even absorb what I wrote?

My gripe is this. John B. (and you for that matter) is entitled to his opinion but when he accuses one who doesn't hold to his opinion of partaking in "wicked heathen religion of Statism" and the many other insulting remarks; a biblical argument upholding those very serious charges is in order.

If John B. were a Christian he would be compelled by the HS to lovingly show US his error from scripture. Instead he rails against God's people like the extremist he actually is. And you, jpw, have tossed your hat in his ring most likely because you have similar views of our military while being completely oblivious of his unGodly militant spirit.

Beware, sister, for 'how' something is said is every bit as important as 'what' is said.

For what it's worth, I gave 13 years of my life in the military service of this country so my dues are paid. How about you? Or John B.?

36

News Item9/23/13 2:55 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
penny wrote:
Lurker, I know you may think you are honoring our military, but I see it quite the opposite. I see it as dishonor.
I wasn't baiting a bit.
I still consider my question a legitimate one.
Dear JPW,thanks for the admonition to ponder the judgment seat as it lead to a prayer on my part that I would ever be mindful of it in my daily life. We are commanded to watch and pray. I always appreciate your emphasis of standing for the persecuted brethren. It breaks my heart to hear of those who are slaughtered for their faith. However it is NOT our military that is doing the killing it is Muslims in the area, and even if it was I have no power to make them stop. I have no authority to stop our government from supporting the radical Islamic groups. The church in the West is not choosing the current administration's pro-Islamic policy. I dare say any help flowing to those areas comes from the people you condemn. You never answer the question as to how we are culpable in this matter, no matter which moniker you use. I am not sure how you would see John's words to me as an admonition it looks like an accusation to me.

Thank you Luker for your kind words, God bless you. God bless you too, jpw.

35

News Item9/23/13 2:21 PM
penny  Find all comments by penny
Lurker, I know you may think you are honoring our military, but I see it quite the opposite. I see it as dishonor.

I wasn't baiting a bit.

I still consider my question a legitimate one.

34

News Item9/23/13 11:40 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
penny wrote:
US -- we all stand before God on this one. sometimes a brother's admonishment is more loving than platitudes. --- when you stand before the throne of God and the martyred Saints, do you think our military members will be there to mediate for you?
"a brother's admonishments"?

In all of John B's comments I've never seen anything to convince me He's a Christian. Further, the only thing I'm certain of by his posts is that he hates government at any level and is quick to condemn anyone who is not likeminded which you call "admonishments".

And then you top it off by baiting US with "do you think our military members will be there to mediate for you?" What's your story, jpw? Do you lean more to John B's comdemning spirit than US's meek and gentle spirit?

Isa 57:15 ¶ For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

33

News Item9/23/13 10:23 AM
penny  Find all comments by penny
US -- we all stand before God on this one. sometimes a brother's admonishment is more loving than platitudes. --- when you stand before the throne of God and the martyred Saints, do you think our military members will be there to mediate for you?
32

News Item9/23/13 8:41 AM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
John, the military and first responders that you despise make it possible for you to post your anti-military diatribes. There is no telling the economic savings you enjoy due to their sacrifices. I have never said or been on record for supporting the current administrations foreign policy which seems to have one common theme, support Muslims. I am not going to say that all that goes on in the military is perfect, we live in a fallen world. If I were you, I would get on my knees and thank God for the service men and women who keep you and yours safe in spite of your disdain for the job they do. You have chosen to ignore the clear Biblical positions that I have put forth and naively follow sites that blare out kingdom now and undoubtedly others where conspiracy theories abound. My standing is before God and not you, so your misguided opinion of me matters not. If you wish to be disrespectful to people by the way you post on this forum that is your choice, I would urge you to see if it follows the example of our Lord and the commandment of His Word. Luke 4:22 Ephesians 4:29
31

News Item9/22/13 5:27 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
John Beechy wrote:
Don't flatter yourself. Ain't no slander. You have a spirit of violence and seek to justify it with true religion while partaking in the false religion that murders believers and unbelievers.
Such sage advice!!

I will certainly endeavor, by the grace of God, to not flatter myself.

Always good to be reminded that the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.

God bless you brother!!

30

News Item9/22/13 2:04 AM
John Beechy  Find all comments by John Beechy
Don't flatter yourself. Ain't no slander. You have a spirit of violence and seek to justify it with true religion while partaking in the false religion that murders believers and unbelievers.
29

News Item9/21/13 11:18 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
John Beechy wrote:
..you are already given over because you have rejected truth in order to have the State as your king, mediator, and god. My efforts are probably in vain, and the lies you believe will only get worse.

Interesting how the true religion is used as a cloak for wickedness. Ain't nothin' new today!

I am reminded that the servant is not above his Master. If they spoke slanderous words against my blessed Lord, I should count it a privilege to follow in His steps. (I Peter 1:20-25) You may call me deluded but my Lord states I am delivered. (Colossians 1:13) Rail away because I am, as my moniker implies, but an unprofitable, yea, less than unprofitable servant of my gracious Master and my God. May God richly bless you in His service.

“The Lord bless you and keep you;
The Lord make His face shine upon you,
And be gracious to you;
The Lord lift up His countenance upon you, And give you peace.”’ (Numbers 6:24-26 NKJV)

28

News Item9/21/13 4:23 PM
John Beechy  Find all comments by John Beechy
Yes, John the baptist, but inspired words. If John's words are to be disregarded, or the words of any other whom God used to preach the gospel and deliver truth, then you have even more problems (though having the spirit of antichrist is enough).

http://www.earlychurchtruth.com/englishsermon/thespiritofantichrist.html

You would help me and the believers by listening to this message, taking heed, coming to repentance, and forsaking and coming out of your wicked heathen religion of Statism and letting us believers live in peace. However, if God has sent you strong delusion, then it's my understanding that you are already given over because you have rejected truth in order to have the State as your king, mediator, and god. My efforts are probably in vain, and the lies you believe will only get worse.

Natural Enemies by John Weaver may be helpful to some:

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=812131437390

Interesting how the true religion is used as a cloak for wickedness. Ain't nothin' new today!

27

News Item9/21/13 4:03 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
UPS, by the way, I'm not contradicting--you much when I point out that Benjamin Franklin said something on the order of There's no such thing as a good war or a bad peace.

However, it is obvious there is no peace in Syria, and more importantly Iran is building up it's nuclear war capability, even if it is making noises about peace.

So, perhaps, one would have say it is a better a contained conflict now in the case of Israel vs Iran rather than a certain catastrophic one in the near future between the two.

Ezekiel 13
10 "It is definitely because they have misled My people by saying, 'Peace!' when there is no peace. And when anyone builds a wall, behold, they plaster it over with whitewash;
11 so tell those who plaster it over with whitewash, that it will fall. A flooding rain will come, and you, O hailstones, will fall; and a violent wind will break out.
12 "Behold, when the wall has fallen, will you not be asked, 'Where is the plaster with which you plastered it?'"---NASB

26
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