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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA News
FRONT PAGE  |  8/5/2015
MONDAY, AUG 26, 2013  |  126 comments
Feds drop demand for baptism permits

The waters became troubled when members of Gladden Baptist Church in Salem, Mo., were unable to access a section of Sinking Creek where they had been baptizing converts for nearly 50 years. In that time, members of the congregation would accompany the pastor and baptismal candidates to the water’s edge to participate in the service. The elderly and mobility-impaired were taken to the sandbar site in vans.

This all changed when the Park Service placed large boulders blocking the sandbar to vehicle traffic, including wheelchairs.

Faye Walmsley, ONSR’s public-information officer, told the Salem Times a special-use permit has been a requirement for all First Amendment activities – public demonstrations, press events, religious services – for the past 25 years, but “we have just never actively used the authority until 2006.” ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 126 user comment(s)
News Item9/2/13 8:05 AM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Christopher000 wrote:
The Waltons? How old are you people anyway...ha-ha. Speaking of old, anyone ever hear of Lawrence Welk? He had a long running show on prime time in the 70's or so (maybe). Like they sang, danced, etc. Anyway, my great grandfathers last name was Duchow and he wrote the Lawrence Duchow polka. Lawrence Welk used to use it often, it was always on the radio, etc. My only claim to fame...ha-ha.
Just joking about the old age thing...
I will be 51 years old in December. I do remember Lawrence Welk. When I was growing up I remember watching the Lawrence Welk Show almost every Saturday. I still watch the Lawrence Welk Show reruns almost every Saturday on Public Broadcasting Network.
126

News Item9/2/13 7:35 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
The Waltons? How old are you people anyway...ha-ha. Speaking of old, anyone ever hear of Lawrence Welk? He had a long running show on prime time in the 70's or so (maybe). Like they sang, danced, etc. Anyway, my great grandfathers last name was Duchow and he wrote the Lawrence Duchow polka. Lawrence Welk used to use it often, it was always on the radio, etc. My only claim to fame...ha-ha.
Just joking about the old age thing...
125

News Item9/2/13 4:37 AM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
How many here remember the Walton's episode pertaining to the subject matter of Baptism? The Baptist way of having an Altar Call during which individuals embrace Jesus as their Personal Savior was depicted accurately.
124

News Item9/1/13 1:50 PM
bac2practical  Find all comments by bac2practical
Baptism ~ immersion?? dipping??
Nope thats wrong translation.

"Baptist exegesis of Rom 6:4/Col 2:12 actually follows Roman Catholic hermeneutical principles. It is doubtless reinforced by the modern European mode of burial, which entails letting a coffin-encased body down into a six foot hole in a parish churchyard or municipal cemetery. However such imagery would not have been present to the minds of the Apostolic Christians. (Who wrote these verses). Their modes of burial were entirely different as a perusal of the historical sources soon indicates. More especially the texts Rom 6:4/Col 2:12 speak of the neophyte being "buried with Christ" and Christ's burial was of course nothing like a modern European burial. This point must be borne in mind that if baptism should be a dramatization "of burial with Christ" as the Scripture says, then such a burial cannot portray so much as a whisker of "going down into" or "dipping" or "immersion." (BRJ 2000 p35)

123

News Item9/1/13 1:46 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
...if the baptism is Spirit baptism of which ALL believers are partakers, why would Paul say Christ sent me not to baptize in I Corinthians, he did not want people to be saved?
I still have to say baptism is of the Holy Spirit in this case. Has Christ been divided? No, because we have all been baptized into one body by the Holy Spirit. Paul says he thanks God he hadn't baptized any of them except those three and other than them he didn't know. How is it possible he water baptized people and wouldn't have known?! Yet, if people were baptized in the Holy Spirit by faith then it would be possible because not everyone spoke in tongues, there weren't always earthquakes and flames of fire resting on those who were baptized in the Holy Spirit. Also, do you believe the great commission means we should go out and baptize in water and Paul was being disobedient? However, the baptism of the Holy Spirit by laying on of hands may have been a ministry of the Apostles and early church leaders in order to show they were carrying on the ministry of Jesus Christ. Whereby we still baptize people by bringing them to faith which results in the filling of the Holy Spirit without hands. Spiritual circumcision not with hands.
122

News Item9/1/13 8:56 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
John for JESUS wrote:
1) I would actually put washings in both verses so as not to confuse people like yourself. However, the word has the same meaning.
2) Wrong. There is no doctrine of laying on of hands in the NT. There is no mode or command to do so. It is only taught in the OT.
3) I don't think you understand Arminianism or the Bible (as far as faith).
Okay John, as I said earlier, I'll leave you to it.
121

News Item9/1/13 8:24 AM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Christopher000 wrote:
John Y, in the Roman system, infant baptism means more that just a symbolic dedication.
Well I really don't care that the Catholic Church states that Infant Baptism imparts salvation. It is more logical and scriptural to believe that Infant Baptism and Adult Baptism are just a dedication of infants and adults to Jesus.
120

News Item9/1/13 7:57 AM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
John UK wrote:
1, According to your ridiculous logic, you could then put "baptisms" in Hebrews 9:10 as well as 6:2.
2. There is only one mentioned in our text.
Hebrews 6:2 KJV
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3. You see, John, how your arminian theology affects every other doctrine you hold. The man decides to follow Jesus, without any compulsion, encouragement, enlightening, or any other working of the Holy Spirit. And then, because of his GREAT decision, God is forced to reward him with salvation and the Baptism with the Spirit. It is not brought about by God but YOURSELF.
Christendom has about 95% of folks who are called "nominal Christians". They imagine themselves Christian because of what THEY have done, and you are just like that.
1) I would actually put washings in both verses so as not to confuse people like yourself. However, the word has the same meaning.
2) Wrong. There is no doctrine of laying on of hands in the NT. There is no mode or command to do so. It is only taught in the OT.
3) I don't think you understand Arminianism or the Bible (as far as faith).
119

News Item9/1/13 7:46 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
John Y, in the Roman system, infant baptism means more that just a symbolic dedication.
118

News Item9/1/13 5:13 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
John for JESUS wrote:
1) The same word for baptisms is also washings. It's okay if you disagree, I can't force you to be right.
2) And how many doctrines do Christians hold about laying on of hands?
3) Yes, when someone decides to follow Christ they are baptized in the Holy Spirit as brought about by God.
1, According to your ridiculous logic, you could then put "baptisms" in Hebrews 9:10 as well as 6:2.

2. There is only one mentioned in our text.

Hebrews 6:2 KJV
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3. You see, John, how your arminian theology affects every other doctrine you hold. The man decides to follow Jesus, without any compulsion, encouragement, enlightening, or any other working of the Holy Spirit. And then, because of his GREAT decision, God is forced to reward him with salvation and the Baptism with the Spirit. It is not brought about by God but YOURSELF.

Now this is serious stuff, and I would not have you ignorant of how dangerous it is to believe such. Christendom has about 95% of folks who are called "nominal Christians". They imagine themselves Christian because of what THEY have done, and you are just like that.

117

News Item9/1/13 5:06 AM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
There is nothing unscriptural about Infant Baptism since it is just a dedication of infants to Jesus and does not impart salvation. Just as Adult Baptism is just a dedication adults to Jesus and does not impart salvation.
116

News Item9/1/13 4:50 AM
Y'wot  Find all comments by Y'wot
Adv K wrote:
.........For abundant proof of this, see Francis Nigel Lee's monograph titled Sprinkling is Scriptural. The antipaidobaptism of the Anabaptists strongly characterizes their Baptist stepchildren today" (F.N.Lee)
Ah, you mean another lying Presby who is now cured of his habit!
115

News Item8/31/13 10:30 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
1) So Phillip was wrong to teach a gentile believer he needs to be baptized in water after he was saved? 2) And again if the baptism is Spirit baptism of which ALL believers are partakers, why would Paul say Christ sent me not to baptize in I Corinthians, he did not want people to be saved?
1) No, I don't necessarily believe water baptizing of disciples was wrong. Today's water baptism is a ceremony where the person being dunked is making a public professing of faith in Christ's death and resurrection. I let one of my sons do it. However, it isn't commanded in scripture and shouldn't be confused with real baptism of the Holy Spirit. The Jewish washings were a type of true baptism which came later.
2) Good question, I have to look into that.
114

News Item8/31/13 8:43 PM
jpw  Find all comments by jpw
is this the questions that can clear this whole thread up?

John for Jesus -- when someone is baptized by the Holy Spirit, are they sprinkled or immersed?

113

News Item8/31/13 8:41 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
John UK wrote:
1) No it proves nothing of the sort. This is a big mistake. The same greek word can and is translated in a variety of ways, and it is the translator's work to identify the correct one, as in this example. Carry on like this, John, and you will end up doubting the English Bible.
2) In our text, the word is "baptisms" NOT "water baptisms". Baptism is simply to be immersed in something; in the new testament we have different baptisms mentioned.
In Acts 2:38, it is so very obviously water baptism. You reckon a sinner can get himself baptised with the Spirit to order?
3) Think about it. Do you know ANYONE who decided to be baptised with the Spirit and who brought it about? A sinner cannot even repent except he be quickened by the Spirit - it is a work of God.
1) The same word for baptisms is also washings. It's okay if you disagree, I can't force you to be right.
2) And how many doctrines do Christians hold about laying on of hands?
3) Yes, when someone decides to follow Christ they are baptized in the Holy Spirit as brought about by God.
112

News Item8/31/13 5:49 PM
Adv K  Find all comments by Adv K
"Anabaptist views in general altogether foreign to Holy Scripture

Many, then, were the errors of Anabaptism. There were also different varieties of Anabaptists. Yet all agreed in rejecting infant baptism -- and, more importantly, also the historical continuity and therefore the social stability which it promotes.

In Holy Scripture itself, there is neither antipaidobaptism nor submersionism. The Bible insists that both believers and their infants were to be circumcised, before Calvary. There, however, circumcision was replaced by baptism -- and hence infant circumcision by infant baptism. Genesis 17:7-14; Acts 2:38f; Romans 4:11f; Colossians 2:11-13.

The modern Baptists (just like the mediaeval baptismal regenerationists) further insist that baptism should be administered only by way of submersion. That method, however, is totally foreign to the Word of God -- which knows only of sprinkling and pouring. Isaiah 32:15 & 44:1-5 & 52:15f; Ezekiel 36:25-27; Daniel 3:33 & 5:21; Joel 2:16,23,28f; Acts 1:5f & 2:1-4a,16f,33,38f and Hebrews 9:10-21. For abundant proof of this, see Francis Nigel Lee's monograph titled Sprinkling is Scriptural. The antipaidobaptism of the Anabaptists strongly characterizes their Baptist stepchildren today" (F.N.Lee)

111

News Item8/31/13 5:08 PM
Y'wot  Find all comments by Y'wot
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
You need to stop reading such fiction as you are posting in this thread. You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free.
Presbys place no premium on Biblical Truth. To them their sectarianism is more important.

John UK

Re: your comment below -

110

News Item8/31/13 4:00 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Adv K wrote:
Is that the ever decreasing ones John?
It is to be lamented that wherever the remnant are found to be worshipping God their Saviour, their number is decreasing due to deceasing.

I don't think that rates a thumbsup.

However, I am thankful that when the Lord returns, the truly saved within the Calvin Presbys will willingly let go their bigoted thinking, and become quite normal, having the complete transformation of character, becoming as the Lord Jesus Christ himself, and thankfully we shall never hear them mention Mr Calvin and the WCF ever again, but they shall sing the new song of The Lamb in heaven, and at last the Blessed Lord shall have the preeminence which, at present, he is sadly lacking in the Presby community, who are more interested in their theologians than the Lord Jesus, and who can tell others more about theologians and confessions and leagues and covenants than they can about the Lord they claim has saved them.

109

News Item8/31/13 3:19 PM
Adv K  Find all comments by Adv K
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
Strong's
Vines
A Methodist?
A Brethren?

What no Baptist?

John UK wrote:
Baptist circles
Is that the ever decreasing ones John?

"The correct modes are sprinkling or pouring

·John the Baptist's ministry was prophetic of the outpouring of the Spirit. It is inconceivable he would typify this by any other mode than pouring.
·Heb.9:10, identifies all Old Testament water-purification rituals as "baptisms.” Without exception, these were done by sprinkling or pouring, never by immersion. Compare these "sprinklings,” which are called baptisms in the following texts: Heb.9:13 = Nu.19:17-18 ?Heb.9:19 = Ex. 24:6,8 ?Heb.9:21 = Lev.8:19; 16:14

Baptism Is the External Sign and Seal of the Covenant of Grace Made with Abraham.
The Covenant made with Abraham is the same believers enjoy today. No fundamental changes, except in the sign and seal of entry into it. Let's look at the elements in common:
1.The promises made to Abraham were intended for New Testament believers also. Ro.4:16,23,24. ?
2.The Abrahamic Covenant is called "the gospel.” Ga.3:8 ?
3.The blessing is the same: The Holy Spirit. Ga.3:14 ?
4.The condition is the same:Faith alone. Ge.15:6 Ro.4:3 etc

108

News Item8/31/13 2:07 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Of course, the biggest dramatisation element in baptism comes from the RCC, the Anglican church and the Presbyterian church, whose sprinkling guarantees a visit from the Holy Ghost who regenerates the baptee.

In Baptist circles, the glorious event has already occurred. Thus the water baptism is a physical representation of the spiritual event. It is saying: "Look what God by grace has done!" Whereas the others are saying, "Look what we are forcing God to do!"

107
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