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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  11/23/2014
WEDNESDAY, JUL 3, 2013  |  43 comments
State, Gay Couple Sue Christian Flower Shop

The state attorney general argues she discriminated. Stutzman's attorney says the case is not about discrimination but freedom of religion.

On Friday, her attorney asked Benton County Superior Court Judge Salvador Mendoza to recuse himself because he knows one of the plaintiffs.

Mendoza was on the board of Columbia Basin College where plaintiff Curt Freed teaches. But the judge refused to step down from the case, saying he did not know Freed outside of interacting with him during board meetings. ...


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COMMENTS | show all | add new  
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· Page 1 ·  Found: 43 user comment(s)
News Item7/12/13 7:05 AM
Htl  Find all comments by Htl
John Yurich USA wrote:
Well if homosexuals choose to be homosexual instead of straight then it only stands to reason that heterosexuals choose to be straight and not homosexual.
JY
Heterosexual is not a choice it is a normal state of being in man.

Homosexual is sin and is the state of being in sin in rebellion to God.

We are born normal but are influenced by sin/lust which corrupts our normal state.

43

News Item7/12/13 6:11 AM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
Frank
A RCC priests misunderstanding of soteriology doesnt negate the faith of Saints in their pews

John
As Christians our obligation is to both God and neighbor. A Christian baker can bake a birthday cake for anyone, but his/her obligation to God and neighbor can certainly prevent them from baking a wedding cake for a same sex couple. If the court ignores the bakers obligation to God, I feel its best we argue that the baker should not be required to contribute to the spiritual demise of their neighbor. Just as a bartender doesnt have to serve drinks to a drunk, a baker shouldnt be forced to bake a wedding cake for a same sex couple

42

News Item7/11/13 7:44 PM
Unprofitable Sevant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Sevant
John Yurich, sounds like you are trying to say a person who is heterosexual is choosing not to be a homosexual. That would be accurate as by nature, according to Romans 1, we are all born heterosexual. But because it is part of our nature, then you have to look at it like having blue eyes. You are not choosing to not have green eyes if you were born with blue eyes, it is just the way God made you . Also, you are not choosing to have blue eyes, it is just they way you were born. The way you worded it sounds like you come in with a tabula rasa and you chose one way or the other. Although that would be better than what the homosexual crowd is currently claiming at least it would recognize they are choosing, still not accurate though.
41

News Item7/11/13 7:02 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Mike wrote:
No John Y, heterosexuals do not choose to be straight. Where did you get that idea?
Of course you are correct; good comment.
40

News Item7/11/13 6:59 PM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Mike wrote:
No John Y, heterosexuals do not choose to be straight. Where did you get that idea?
Well if homosexuals choose to be homosexual instead of straight then it only stands to reason that heterosexuals choose to be straight and not homosexual.
39

News Item7/11/13 6:44 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John Yurich USA wrote:
I don't believe that sanctification precedes justification. I believe like Protestants do. However if homosexuals choose to be homosexual then they can choose to be heterosexual if they are refused service by every business owned by Christians. Heterosexuals choose to be straight and not homosexual.
No John Y, heterosexuals do not choose to be straight. Where did you get that idea?
38

News Item7/11/13 6:29 PM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
SteveR wrote:
Im guessing you meant 'unregenerated'
either way
Since Catholics teach sanctification precedes justification, I can understand JYs point of view.
I don't believe that sanctification precedes justification. I believe like Protestants do. However if homosexuals choose to be homosexual then they can choose to be heterosexual if they are refused service by every business owned by Christians. Heterosexuals choose to be straight and not homosexual.
37

News Item7/11/13 3:47 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
SteveR wrote:
Since Catholics teach sanctification precedes justification,
SteveR. Since you rightly say the Catholics believe that in order to be justified, they must reach a level of sanctification, then how can you say their doctrine is salvific or that the RCC contains the elect of God? Is the doctrine of justification by faith and salvation being a free gift not a clear doctrine of scripture and if so, why would you not warn those who belong to or adhere to the RCC? Or do you consider it a side issue?

As an aside, it is the inability to comply with the requirements of the law that leads us to Christ. Was the law bad then; of course not it was perfect.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.[21] But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; [22] Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: [23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; [24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (Rom 3:20-24 KJV)

36

News Item7/11/13 10:34 AM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
jpw wrote:
how can one give spiritual guidance outside of the Holy Spirit in the regenerated man?
Im guessing you meant 'unregenerated'

either way
Since Catholics teach sanctification precedes justification, I can understand JYs point of view. However, even in the Protestant camp, we believe the Law is the Schoolmaster to Christ. So while Im not party to the sell or not to sell debate here, I do think we all have an obligation to convey our ultimate respect for the Mosaic Law to those who might or might not be Covenant believers

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

35

News Item7/11/13 10:05 AM
jpw  Find all comments by jpw
how can one give spiritual guidance outside of the Holy Spirit in the regenerated man?
34

News Item7/11/13 9:50 AM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
jpw wrote:
what???
refuse anyone who might be gay a dental cleaning, bottled water, shoes, refuse to fix a gas line break or to mend a tire?? what?
Yes because that will teach the homosexuals that their perverted lifestyle choice is an abomination and that they should choose to repent of their abomination and become heterosexuals.
33

News Item7/11/13 9:26 AM
jpw  Find all comments by jpw
John Yurich USA wrote:
Why don't you believe that any business owned by a Christian should refuse service to all homosexuals?
what???

refuse anyone who might be gay a dental cleaning, bottled water, shoes, refuse to fix a gas line break or to mend a tire?? what?

32

News Item7/11/13 4:50 AM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Frank wrote:
John Y., I disagree.
Why don't you believe that any business owned by a Christian should refuse service to all homosexuals? If a Christian florist, baker or photographer should refuse service to all homosexuals then any other business owned by a Christian should also refuse service to all homosexuals.
31

News Item7/10/13 12:39 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Christopher000 wrote:
Frank Wrote:
"My conscience would not allow me to bake the cake. My conscience would not allow me to give them a marriage licence, or process their federal benefits, or to provide a motel room for them, etc"
As a business owner, I have considered these scenarios many times and I have to agree. I feel like if I ever comprised, I would be damaging my relationship with God and could never get to where I want to be. This is a difficult decision for business owners because it could ultimately mean the demise of their dream. I have thought long and hard about it, and as difficult as it would be; as damaging as it could be to my business, I would have to hold firm and suffer the secular consequences. I figure that our time here pales in comparison to eternity so I would take the hit and suffer for a little while.
What I meant with JY's comment was that it was the 1st time I saw a glimmer of anything.
Yes, I understood your post. I like Barty's thoughts on the subject, but everything we do is subject to our consciences and that is the main point I was making. NO PRETENSE! You are absolutely correct on eternity; this life is but a puff of smoke that disappears into the air and then comes eternity!

John Y., I disagree.

30

News Item7/10/13 8:26 AM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Frank wrote:
I understand your position and don't disagree with anything you said. In your scenario, then you and I agree; don't bake the cake. I was thinking of different things than a can of beans.
My conscience would not allow me to bake the cake. My conscience would not allow me to give them a marriage licence, or process their federal benefits, or to provide a motel room for them, etc. Perhaps my use of the word "commercial" was too inclusive? Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. As long as we all agree that pretending to do the right thing is not the same thing as doing the right thing; and it looks like we all do.
Of course any kind of business owned by a Christian should refuse service to homosexuals.
29

News Item7/10/13 7:40 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Frank Wrote:
"My conscience would not allow me to bake the cake. My conscience would not allow me to give them a marriage licence, or process their federal benefits, or to provide a motel room for them, etc"

As a business owner, I have considered these scenarios many times and I have to agree. I feel like if I ever comprised, I would be damaging my relationship with God and could never get to where I want to be. This is a difficult decision for business owners because it could ultimately mean the demise of their dream. I have thought long and hard about it, and as difficult as it would be; as damaging as it could be to my business, I would have to hold firm and suffer the secular consequences. I figure that our time here pales in comparison to eternity so I would take the hit and suffer for a little while.

What I meant with JY's comment was that it was the 1st time I saw a glimmer of anything.

28

News Item7/8/13 1:04 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Barty wrote:
Frank. Is it not more about the end result than just the commodity being sold?
If we sell a can of beans to the homosexual then the end result is irrelevant.
But if we sell a wedding cake to the homosexuals then this contributes to the (societies) acceptance of the reason for the "wedding" cake - ie same sex marriage?
I understand your position and don't disagree with anything you said. In your scenario, then you and I agree; don't bake the cake. I was thinking of different things than a can of beans.

My conscience would not allow me to bake the cake. My conscience would not allow me to give them a marriage licence, or process their federal benefits, or to provide a motel room for them, etc. Perhaps my use of the word "commercial" was too inclusive? Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. As long as we all agree that pretending to do the right thing is not the same thing as doing the right thing; and it looks like we all do.

27

News Item7/8/13 11:52 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John Yurich USA wrote:
I changed my mind. I would refuse to bake a wedding cake for a homosexual wedding. I would state bring on the lawsuit.
Good for you, John Y.
26

News Item7/8/13 11:40 AM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Frank wrote:
John Y was saying it was sinful, but he would pretend to obey the Lord by baking the bad cake.
I changed my mind. I would refuse to bake a wedding cake for a homosexual wedding. I would state bring on the lawsuit.
25

News Item7/8/13 11:24 AM
jpw  Find all comments by jpw
each Christian will have to seek God in prayer that they be prepared.

Frank brings up some interesting points, and I would say I halfheartedly agree.

In oppressive places, the Christian will often hide bibles, meet secretly to worship and the like. They do not loudly pronounce their disagreement (meaning their reluctance to worship the system and leave the Living God)

A shift in identity will take place among the remnant, and I would argue that many have already been on their knees, facing perseuction for years and being realigned in their identiy with Christ, coming out of "collectivist" identity....

we do not have to get permission to do what is right. that is Corrie did not go to NAZI headquarters and get permission to hide Jewish refugees in the wall behind her bed. She did not get permission to get ration cards for them either. Her family avoided services to the German NAZI.

I'm not saying I have absolute answers on this, but we are in a shift in identity, from the "city on a hill" moral historical collective presence in the nation to a group who's God is not recognized in daily affairs.

24
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