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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  7/22/2014
TUESDAY, APR 9, 2013  |  30 comments
Jim Wallis Now Supports Same-Sex Marriage

Long-time evangelical Left leader Jim Wallis, founder and CEO of Sojourners, has changed his position on government recognition of same-sex marriage. He announced his support in a Friday interview with The Huffington Post.

Wallis said he is worried about the decline of marriage and wants to strengthen it, but believes that same-sex couples should be included in that endeavor.

"I think we should include same-sex couples in that renewal of marriage, [but] I want to talk marriage first," Wallis said. "Marriage needs some strengthening. Let's start with marriage, and then I think we have to talk about, now, how to include same-sex couples in that deeper understanding of marriage. I want a deeper commitment to marriage that is more and more inclusive, and that's where I think the country is going." ...


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www.christianpost.com

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 30 user comment(s)
News Item4/16/13 4:49 PM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
SteveR...I have been waiting patiently for days for your response. Do you have a rebuttal to Rufus' post? You are my go-to guy when I need answers. I think you are amazing because until now, I had never known of anyone who was right 100% of the time but you continue to prove yourself. Really incredible. I know we are not suppose to be envious, but I just can't help it. You blow everyone here away with your gift and I don't know why you don't get involved more often because it seems to be going to waste when you don't. To whom much is given, ya know?
Ok, I'd better quit gushing. Looking forward to more answers to the tough questions. Don't ever let anyone tell you that you are wrong.
30

News Item4/11/13 12:54 PM
Rufus | Fort Worth, TX  Protected NameContact via emailFind all comments by Rufus
SteveR wrote:
As you can imagine Rufus, that is the response I receive. But in context, Paul is only using nature as an example in vs 15. In context
1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
1 Corinthians 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
I suggest everyone read Calvins exhortation on this, as he has been very prophetic in light of todays reality of sexual immorality
The context of verse 5 and verse 6 is referencing hair (shaven, shorn) it does not suggest they should take their hat off.
29

News Item4/10/13 6:09 PM
joe lee | usa  Find all comments by joe lee
SteveR wrote:
I suggest everyone read Calvins exhortation on this, as he has been very prophetic in light of todays reality of sexual immorality
SteveR: I would like to read what Calvin had to say. Can you tell me where it is written...(in the Institutes?)
28

News Item4/10/13 5:56 PM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Rufus Wrote:
Man is without excuse for his own lusts but so too is woman for enticing men to lust.

That's how I see it...men who lust, women who lust are both without excuse, irregardless of what the other does, how the other entices, or how the other chooses to dress. Men, being visual creatures, need to be constantly on guard. I try very hard to look down or another way immediately when someone is dressed unappropriately, and it's not easy at times not to take a 2nd look or lengthen the look. Kind of like trying to pull apart the opposite poles of neodymium magnets. I am always happy with myself when I am strong enough to look away, which is pretty much most every time. Wasn't always that way...

27

News Item4/10/13 5:39 PM
Rufus | Fort Worth, TX  Protected NameContact via emailFind all comments by Rufus
Mike wrote:
Looks like the Muslims have it right. Cover their women from eyes to toes, and all peace will break out. Then the men get rewarded for their lack of being tempted by female ankles with the promise of 72 virgins in their next life. I guess they'll be able to handle the temptation better then.
Men have put the blame for temptation on women ever since Adam blamed Eve for tempting him with the fruit. Yet...
James 1:14 "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed."
The Muslim position would be the extreme position on one side and the contemporary Christian position is the extreme on the other side. The Devil doesn't care which side you wind up on, he just doesn't want you to follow the narrow path.

Man is without excuse for his own lusts but so too is woman for enticing men to lust. There is a reason God considers lasciviousness to be a work of the flesh and there is a reason folks will not inherit the millenial reign of Christ if they engage in it.

26

News Item4/10/13 5:18 PM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
Rufus wrote:
I do agree the covering issue is a component of the problem. Women started cutting off their glory in the 20's and is a component of the androgynous mixing of the genders, which is a part of the rise in sodomy.
In my understanding of this issue, the head covering for a woman is long, glorious, hair. I do not concur with the premise that a woman's covering ought to be covered by a cloth covering. This is not to say they should not wear a bonnet etc due to physical necessity but I do not believe it to be a spiritual necessity.
1 Corinthians 11:15 - But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
As you can imagine Rufus, that is the response I receive. But in context, Paul is only using nature as an example in vs 15. In context

1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

1 Corinthians 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

I suggest everyone read Calvins exhortation on this, as he has been very prophetic in light of todays reality of sexual immorality

25

News Item4/10/13 4:36 PM
Rufus | Fort Worth, TX  Protected NameContact via emailFind all comments by Rufus
SteveR wrote:
Other than floating changing our 501c3 status, I campaigned our Synod to require head coverings for women. If you get a chance, read Calvins exhortations on this as it sounds similar to what you heard. Calvin correctly anticipates the downfall of sexual morality beginning with head coverings for women to uncovered ankles, cleavage, belly buttons etc...
I do agree the covering issue is a component of the problem. Women started cutting off their glory in the 20's and is a component of the androgynous mixing of the genders, which is a part of the rise in sodomy.

In my understanding of this issue, the head covering for a woman is long, glorious, hair. I do not concur with the premise that a woman's covering ought to be covered by a cloth covering. This is not to say they should not wear a bonnet etc due to physical necessity but I do not believe it to be a spiritual necessity.

1 Corinthians 11:15 - But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

24

News Item4/10/13 4:34 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Looks like the Muslims have it right. Cover their women from eyes to toes, and all peace will break out. Then the men get rewarded for their lack of being tempted by female ankles with the promise of 72 virgins in their next life. I guess they'll be able to handle the temptation better then.

Men have put the blame for temptation on women ever since Adam blamed Eve for tempting him with the fruit. Yet...

James 1:14 "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed."

23

News Item4/10/13 3:56 PM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
Rufus wrote:
How many who are Christians don't even know what this word means? It's no longer part of the language because the Bible is no longer part of their lives. Folks familiarizing themselves with the definition of this Bible word might find themselves familiarizing themselves with the judgment of the city named after this behavior. Perhaps too, folks will start familiarizing themselves with the words that lead to sodomy such as lasciviousness.
The old time preachers at the turn of the 20th century warned women showing their ankles would lead to women showing their calves which would lead to the showing of the thigh which would lead to fornication and adultery which would lead to sodomy which would lead to pedophilia to bestiality and finally cannabalism.
Other than floating changing our 501c3 status, I campaigned our Synod to require head coverings for women. If you get a chance, read Calvins exhortations on this as it sounds similar to what you heard. Calvin correctly anticipates the downfall of sexual morality beginning with head coverings for women to uncovered ankles, cleavage, belly buttons etc...
22

News Item4/10/13 3:43 PM
Rufus | Fort Worth, TX  Protected NameContact via emailFind all comments by Rufus
Mike wrote:
Unfortunately, the only thing continuing to use the word sodomy for 2000 yrs has demonstrated, is that using it isn't working. How many who are not Christian even know what it means anymore? It is no longer part of the language. ...
How many who are Christians don't even know what this word means? It's no longer part of the language because the Bible is no longer part of their lives. Folks familiarizing themselves with the definition of this Bible word might find themselves familiarizing themselves with the judgment of the city named after this behavior. Perhaps too, folks will start familiarizing themselves with the words that lead to sodomy such as lasciviousness.

The old time preachers at the turn of the 20th century warned women showing their ankles would lead to women showing their calves which would lead to the showing of the thigh which would lead to fornication and adultery which would lead to sodomy which would lead to pedophilia to bestiality and finally cannabalism. We are in the later stages of this process.

These preachers were able to warn because they had an understanding of the Holy Bible, people would hear the warning if they reacquainted themselves with the same Holy Bible these preachers had.

21

News Item4/10/13 3:17 PM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
The word sodomy acquired different meanings over time. Under the Common Law, sodomy consisted of axxx intercourse. Traditionally courts and statutes referred to it as a "crime against nature" or as copulation "against the order of nature." In the United States, the term eventually encompassed oxxx sex as well as axxx sex. The crime of sodomy was classified as a felony.

I looked up several definitions and wanted to see how the law now defines it. The original meaning, and how I always defined it, is contained in my 1st sentence above. Now, the word Sodomy has many definitions, including, but not limited to you know what with animals.

Yuck...just thinking about the word disgusts me

20

News Item4/10/13 10:40 AM
joe lee | usa  Find all comments by joe lee
Mike wrote:
Unfortunately, the only thing continuing to use the word sodomy for 2000 yrs has demonstrated, is that using it isn't working. How many who are not Christian even know what it means anymore? It is no longer part of the language. The argument has been reframed with the push for "same-sex marriage." Now we can continue to scream "sodomy" all we want, while the sodomites shrug their shoulders and say "so?" Or we can argue the circumstance we are in, i.e. the definition of marriage, which is God ordained, and is under attack now. This is beyond sodomy as sodomy.
Mike:
No one is "screaming" sodomite on these posts that I have seen. Perhaps you say so because you perceive the word to be offensive. God's law offends. The gospel offends. If, as you say, the culture has abandoned a Biblical word, then even more reason for the church to continue using the word. If non-Christians do not know what it means, we should use it an opportunity to explain it to them as we would anything else in Scripture, including the one and only definition of marriage.
19

News Item4/10/13 9:02 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
joe lee wrote:
---
I like what Pastor Bayly says on his Bayly Blog:
---
For over two thousand years now, the Church has associated Sodom with same-sex carnal relations. In the face of the evil onslaught against God's Moral Law so pervasive in our culture, we ought to continue this usage,...
---
Unfortunately, the only thing continuing to use the word sodomy for 2000 yrs has demonstrated, is that using it isn't working. How many who are not Christian even know what it means anymore? It is no longer part of the language. The argument has been reframed with the push for "same-sex marriage." Now we can continue to scream "sodomy" all we want, while the sodomites shrug their shoulders and say "so?" Or we can argue the circumstance we are in, i.e. the definition of marriage, which is God ordained, and is under attack now. This is beyond sodomy as sodomy.
18

News Item4/10/13 7:52 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Joe Lee: lying=creative communication. Interesting new politically correct terminology. Why not...everything else is being compromised and is upside down.

As for homosexuality, not all that long ago, this was considered to be a mental disease. Oh how far we have digressed from a once God fearing, Bible believing country. Not as a whole, but the majority ruled, and people used to actually respect and fear God.
What's that verse that says people will laugh at the thought if Christ coming again, saying (mockingly), "where is He?"

17

News Item4/9/13 11:05 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
joe lee wrote:
Bayly said it was bowing the knee to Baal and, while I would not have put it that way, the more I think about it, the more I believe he is right. By the way, I am putting myself in that camp as well since I am not always consistent in my terminology. Let's imagine for a minute, that perjury is made no longer against the law and it is rephrased by the liar lobby who now call themselves "creative communicators" as compared to "direct communicators (for truth tellers)". Should we adopt the term "creative communicator" instead of liar? It seems we are soft-pedaling the wickedness of sodomy by using terms of moral equivalence.
Thanks for the clarification. I have read many of your posts and although we may disagree on the issue of communication, I would never imagine you are bowing your knee to Baal regardless of what this fellow Bayly might say. But your point is well taken and I sincerely appreciate your thoughts on this subject.
16

News Item4/9/13 8:36 PM
joe lee | usa  Find all comments by joe lee
Frank wrote:
Yes, using the term sodomy or sodomite is loving; helpful and good. That is why I said "sodomy" if someone prefers. Since I normally use the word homosexual in conversation, I hope you aren't saying I'm bowing my knee (worshipping) Baal.
Bayly said it was bowing the knee to Baal and, while I would not have put it that way, the more I think about it, the more I believe he is right. By the way, I am putting myself in that camp as well since I am not always consistent in my terminology. Let's imagine for a minute, that perjury is made no longer against the law and it is rephrased by the liar lobby who now call themselves "creative communicators" as compared to "direct communicators (for truth tellers)". Should we adopt the term "creative communicator" instead of liar? It seems we are soft-pedaling the wickedness of sodomy by using terms of moral equivalence.
15

News Item4/9/13 8:02 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
joe lee wrote:
-- like left-handed, right-handed. "To give up the historic Christian term 'sodomy' is for us to bow our knees to Baal. For over two thousand years now, the Church has associated Sodom with same-sex carnal relations. In the face of the evil onslaught against God's Moral Law so pervasive in our culture, we ought to continue this usage, speaking of "sodomitical," "sodomy," and "sodomites," because these words are a biblical witness communicating the great shame and all-consuming wrath of God. This is true. This is good. This is helpful. This is loving."
Yes, using the term sodomy or sodomite is loving; helpful and good. That is why I said "sodomy" if someone prefers. Since I normally use the word homosexual in conversation, I hope you aren't saying I'm bowing my knee (worshipping) Baal. To me and to those I might communicate with; I can assure you they don't get confused as to what I am saying. In fact, I looked up the word in German and it said analverkehr. If someone used that word in front of me or my wife, I would object. But, it is right on! Now since that is exactly what sodomy really means, why not translate the word sodomy to what it really means and do it that way?

Anyway, thanks for the comment.

14

News Item4/9/13 7:22 PM
joe lee | usa  Find all comments by joe lee
Frank wrote:
Mike, you are on to something with how people use words or form their arguments. Using the term gay isn't correct and discussing "gay
marriage" also isn't correct. The real moral issue is homosexuality (or sodomy if someone prefers)
I would agree with Rufus earlier. The modern translations largely omit the term "sodomy", as well as "fornication", and generally replace with sexual immorality. They have taken specific terms and replaced with vagueness. "Gay" does not work in that they revel in their gaity. "Homosexual" also fails because it is simply a clinical term, framed opposite heterosexual -- like left-handed, right-handed. I like what Pastor Bayly says on his Bayly Blog:

"To give up the historic Christian term 'sodomy' is for us to bow our knees to Baal. For over two thousand years now, the Church has associated Sodom with same-sex carnal relations. In the face of the evil onslaught against God's Moral Law so pervasive in our culture, we ought to continue this usage, speaking of "sodomitical," "sodomy," and "sodomites," because these words are a biblical witness communicating the great shame and all-consuming wrath of God. This is true. This is good. This is helpful. This is loving."

13

News Item4/9/13 6:55 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Mike wrote:
I'd question whether they are ashamed of the word marriage. If Christian mags and websites knew what was going on, they wouldn't use the term "same-sex marriage" at all. It lowers the bar of discussion while giving ground to the promoters of the lie, from which they then argue for their "marriage equality."
Words mean things.
Mike, you are on to something with how people use words or form their arguments. Using the term gay isn't correct and discussing "gay
marriage" also isn't correct. The real moral issue is homosexuality (or sodomy if someone prefers); not marriage. If you condemn the behavior, then marriage isn't even an issue. If you don't condemn the behavior, then the argument becomes dummied down. Yes, the bar is being lowered in all moral areas. Condemning homosexuality is considered hate speech, but condemning "gay marriage" can be framed within a non-biblical argument; so our politicians and liberal churches jump on the chance. Wallis is an apostate; pure and simple!
12

News Item4/9/13 6:22 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
joe lee wrote:
Wallis threw in the towel a long time ago, if he even knew he had a towel. That does not surprise me. What is disappointing is that the Christian Post (and SermonAudio) adopt the language of deceit and refer to "same sex marriage". This is la-la land. No such thing could ever exist. You are losing half the battle before you even get started by adopting their benign description of this abomination. It is government sanctioned sodomy. That is the word the Bible uses. Are Christians ashamed of this Biblical word?
I'd question whether they are ashamed of the word marriage. If Christian mags and websites knew what was going on, they wouldn't use the term "same-sex marriage" at all. It lowers the bar of discussion while giving ground to the promoters of the lie, from which they then argue for their "marriage equality."

Words mean things.

11
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