The Vatican sought Saturday to quash speculation that divisions among cardinals could drag out the conclave to elect the new pope, while preparations for the vote plowed ahead with firefighters installing the Sistine Chapel chimney that will tell the world when a decision has been reached.
But the specter of an inconclusive first few rounds of secret balloting remained high, with no clear front-runner heading into Tuesday’s papal election and a long list of cardinals still angling to discuss the church’s problems ahead of the vote.
‘‘You don’t have your mind absolutely made up’’ going into the conclave, U.S. Cardinal Justin Rigali, who participated in the 2005 conclave that elected Benedict XVI, told The Associated Press this week. ‘‘You have your impressions.’’...
Berg-a-mot wrote: So what moral stand did this new great papa make when 30,000 of his own people were being made to disappear by a fascist dictatorship?
Jim Lincoln wrote: Rufus, you can call them censers or vessels or firepans, but they were not the same thing as the Romish Church uses. They would have to be much bigger to hold the quantity of material as described in the Bible. ...
A firepan is a firepan, a censer is a censer. They are not the same things. Abihu and Nadab used a censer, the Holy Bible says so. I encourage you to believe the Bible rather than Jack Strong, Frank Logsdon etc.
Rufus, you can call them censers or vessels or firepans, but they were not the same thing as the Romish Church uses. They would have to be much bigger to hold the quantity of material as described in the Bible.
LEV 16:12 "He shall take a firepan full of coals of fire from upon the altar before the Lord and two handfuls of finely ground sweet incense, and bring it inside the veil. NUM 16:17 "Each of you take his firepan and put incense on it, and each of you bring his censer before the Lord, two hundred and fifty firepans; also you and Aaron shall each bring his firepan."---NASB
Note Strong's definition for censer in the KJV: "04289: 4289 machtah makh-taw' the same as 4288 in the sense of removal; a pan for live coals:--censer, firepan, snuffdish...."
and the commentary of Jamison, Fausset, and Brown for Numbers 16:17 "two hundred fifty censers—probably the small platters, common in Egyptian families, where incense was offered to household deities and which had been among the precious things borrowed at their departure [Ex 12:35,36]."
So, I do like accuracy in my translations and the NASB does an excellent job of it. It's the best English translation of the present day.
Jim Lincoln wrote: They should watch out sending a stench to God's nostrils. Leviticus 10:1 Now Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took their respective firepans, and after putting fire in them, placed incense on it and offered strange fire before the LORD, which He had not commanded them. 2 And fire came out from the presence of the LORD and consumed them, and they died before the LORD.---NASB Roman Catholic Authority (PDF) doesn't come from God.
Sorry to be picky but it vexes me when people get the words wrong.
Nadab and Abihu did not use firepans as though they were cooking ham & eggs. They used censers which would be the things you put incense in, and which the RC still uses today in their rituals.
Leviticus 10:1 - And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.
They should watch out sending a stench to God's nostrils.
Leviticus 10:1 Now Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took their respective firepans, and after putting fire in them, placed incense on it and offered strange fire before the LORD, which He had not commanded them. 2 And fire came out from the presence of the LORD and consumed them, and they died before the LORD.---NASB
How exciting! The whole world (LTRU what the word "world" means) waiting with bated breath for that little puff of smoke from the Vatican chimney, which indicates that the unbiblical cardinals have voted yet another impostor to the position of antichrist, who will seek to deceive the nations with a false sacramental gospel, leading astray men, women and children, the blind leading the blind, until they all fall in the ditch, from where there is no hope of recovery, for it is an eternal ditch of fire and brimstone, and they all shall look around them in despair, crying out, "This is not purgatory! It is hellfire!" Upon which the devils whom they have for company, shall laugh them to scorn, and chastise them for having believed the lies of the devil, and the ministrations of the magic-show priests who deluded them with tales of transforming bread and wine into Jesus Christ whom, if they ate him and drank him, would then have everlasting life, but it was all a lie, having come from the father of lies, Satan, and Lucifer, another impostor who, trying to be God, was thrust out of heaven, along with thousands of rebellious angels who, becoming devils, with antichristian thoughts, blinded the minds of them that believed not on Christ, and then laughed at their calamity.
Dr. Alan Cairns | 8/3/2009
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