Christianity Today: Catholics and Baptists Together
Always the same. While we're all now focused on the change that's about to happen in the Catholic Church as Pope Benedict XVI steps down, the Latin phrase semper eadem—always the same—is often invoked to describe the unchanging character of the Catholic Church.
Certain critics say no real change can take place in the Catholic Church, but change does take place, though it usually happens by indirection, reassessment, and development. The result is what Pope Benedict XVI has called a "hermeneutic of continuity and reform." This was evident in the 2012 Synod of Bishops, convened to consider "The New Evangelization for the Transmission of the Christian Faith."
I participated in this recent synod as a fraternal delegate representing the Baptist World Alliance. The conveners asked the fraternal delegates to make a brief presentation to the synod, offer written comments on the proceedings, and...
The View wrote: Over a very extended period of time, the Lord opened his eyes...
That's great to hear. I totally understand the concept of patience and planting seeds. I don't expect anyone to hear the truth one day, abandon everything they have ever believed, and become born again the next day. I know that it took me a long, long time. My frustration lies in that nobody even seems interested in the facts, no eyebrows get raised, and no questions get asked in the meantime. If I were Roman Catholic, or believed that my Catholic friends/family were truly saved and then read all of the facts that we have posted, I would be alarmed and it would prompt further investigation since we are talking about eternity and could be gone tomorrow.
Christopher000 wrote: I've never posted one opinion, just the facts from Romes very own words, teachings, and irrefutable belief system and all I've ever got back was the chirping of crickets. I really don't understand it because it's all so black and white, unmistakable, provable and easy to refute using the Bible alone
When you are posting to Roman Catholics you are posting to people who are blind ....
# Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
# 2Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
# Eph 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
# And remember the point Jesus makes to the "believers??" at Matt 7:21-23.
Christopher000 wrote: What I find really disheartening is that with the length of time I've been on the board, with the several people I've (we've) reached out to on this same topic, and with all of the time I've spent pouring out fact after fact, never once have I been able to get anyone to go "hmmm".
There was somebody on the board once who used a couple of monikers and went by the name of Matt. He started out, much like some still do, claiming to show all of the strengths and faithfulness of the "church" of Rome with modern ecumenical fervour. Over a very extended period of time, the Lord opened his eyes, and he came to a firm grasp of evangelical truth and saw the errors of Romish doctrine clearly.
The Lord is sovereign. Many are called but few are chosen.
Christopher000 wrote: What I find really disheartening
Christopher000 Don't be disheartened. I think we need to get to know our "audience."
A pastor from Albany told a group of people in a class he was teaching on doctrine how when he visited with and witnessed to Catholics that: Roman Catholic PEOPLE loved him BUT Roman Catholic PRIESTS hated him.
I realize he was speaking in a general sense but it reminds me there are certain individuals who are not here on SermonAudio to learn and grow in the knowledge of the Truth (some are Praise God ), some are here for 'religious entertainment' and some are here 'to oppose the Truth and promote their own "ism"', and some God has led her in their "curiosity" who will hear the Truth they aren't hearing out there in the modern ecumenical religious world.
Brief Testimony: I had no idea how ecumenical Billy Graham was until I heard speakers here on SermonAudio exposing what was going on in his crusades and checked out if it was so for myself (it was).
Christopher000, you have no idea of those your stand for the Truth will influence, don't worry about it, God knows and will use you as you grow in knowledge and faithfulness.
Mike wrote: So Chris, what brand of peanut butter are you not eating?
I reckon it was toast and marmalade.
Christopher000 wrote: What I find really disheartening...
Some folks take a long while to come to the truth, Christopher. Some even decades. It is by revelation of God after all. Be not disheartened but trusting in the Lord, that he will have mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will, he will harden.
Christopher000 wrote: What I find really disheartening is that with the length of time I've been on the board, with the several people I've (we've) reached out to on this same topic, and with all of the time I've spent pouring out fact after fact, never once have I been able to get anyone to go "hmmm". ....
Christopher000 wrote: --- I liken it to this: I am sitting in my kitchen eating a peanut butter sandwich. As I'm eating it, I look across to my wife and say, "I really hate peanut butter! " She naturally responds with, "what are you talking about...you are eating a peanut butter sandwich right now!", and I respond with, "no I'm not" That's how ridiculous this all seems to me. She can very easily prove that I am wrong, but I continue to insist that, no matter what, she is the one in error.
So Chris, what brand of peanut butter are you not eating?
What I find really disheartening is that with the length of time I've been on the board, with the several people I've (we've) reached out to on this same topic, and with all of the time I've spent pouring out fact after fact, never once have I been able to get anyone to go "hmmm". No matter what I've said, no matter how many solid facts I've laid out, no matter how many damning comparisons I've made, nobody has ever seemed to budge in the slightest, or even really ask questions for that matter. I've never posted one opinion, just the facts from Romes very own words, teachings, and irrefutable belief system and all I've ever got back was the chirping of crickets. I really don't understand it because it's all so black and white, unmistakable, provable and easy to refute using the Bible alone. I liken it to this: I am sitting in my kitchen eating a peanut butter sandwich. As I'm eating it, I look across to my wife and say, "I really hate peanut butter! " She naturally responds with, "what are you talking about...you are eating a peanut butter sandwich right now!", and I respond with, "no I'm not" That's how ridiculous this all seems to me. She can very easily prove that I am wrong, but I continue to insist that, no matter what, she is the one in error.
Don't waste your time wrote: Indeed Michael. 2 John 10 and 11 come to mind: If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. In verse 7, those who abide not in the doctrine of Christ are labelled "deceivers", and such is SteveR!!
Don't Waste Thanks for posting back. God knows we so need His wisdom, discernment, AND THE FULNESS OF HIS COUNSEL and heart in these kind of things.
Here on SermonAudio there is an instructive message When Peace Costs Too Much that I have found greatly helpful when confronted with those promoting false teachings.
And the wonderful Testimony of a leftist lesbian professor, who despised Christians. Then somehow became one My Train Wreck Conversion that SermonAudio linked to from a news report.
Michael Hranek wrote: Don't Waste Thanks for being a sounding board. For me I think it boils down to this it is one thing for someone blindly parroting false teachings it is another for someone who ought to know better knowingly promoting false teachings. IMHO SteveR ought to know better and be treated appropriately so. Ignorant nominal Catholic or even baptists can be another matter.
Indeed Michael.
2 John 10 and 11 come to mind:
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
In verse 7, those who abide not in the doctrine of Christ are labelled "deceivers", and such is SteveR!!
Don't waste your time wrote: Michael, as much as we hurt for people in the RCC who are deluded into thinking that they are Christian, we should be angry with people like SteveR who confirm them in their delusion. Do you suppose for a moment that our Lord would ever do such a cruel thing? If they are genuinely converted we should call on them to leave the RCC. And you know that the Spirit of God who indwells the truly converted would constrain them to leave. As for SteveR, he and his ilk are errorists of the worst kind - who under the guise of love send millions to hell! He should be warned and shunned.
Don't Waste Thanks for being a sounding board. For me I think it boils down to this
it is one thing for someone blindly parroting false teachings
it is another for someone who ought to know better knowingly promoting false teachings.
IMHO SteveR ought to know better and be treated appropriately so. Ignorant nominal Catholic or even baptists can be another matter.
SteveR wrote: YOU KNOW...Most people warming pews in our Reformed Churches dont understand justification either, so? I dont hold Catholics to a higher standard than my own people,
I disagree with you BECAUSE justification is taught in truly Reforming churches and believed! It IS understood enough for a sinner to believe, is it not? The new creature in Christ might never ***fully*** understand but he knows by a real experience of grace the peace of God Romans 5: 1
Maybe your reference to 'my own people' is because they are the ones warming the pews because of your own faulty teaching? No RC has gospel PEACE!
Justification by faith alone is not taught by any RC, so you can never furnish us with one example of such a present day HS led RC teacher. Please do so or resist informing us all of RC Christians. Sadly, mere pew warmers lack the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Does the Holy Spirit guide you to an understanding of Holy Scripture- why not a RC? You KNOW full well that there are untold numbers of RC's who when regenerated have left the priesthood or the RC pew. Why? Because of their superior brains or because of the SPIRIT OF TRUTH?
Why do your friends remain in the RC institution IF they possess the HS?
Michael Hranek wrote: ..let me ask you a question. If someone like SteveR holds a position like he does, how can we best get through to them with the Truth if they are emotionally attached to a pastor/church that holds and promotes these kind of false beliefs? Because what we are asking is that for the sake of Truth, for the sake of Jesus Christ and the Gospel that they themselves be willing to put their own lives on the line, and be willing to stand despite the consequences, and in their own local church perhaps very very alone. Biblical Thoughts/Insight?
Michael, as much as we hurt for people in the RCC who are deluded into thinking that they are Christian, we should be angry with people like SteveR who confirm them in their delusion. Do you suppose for a moment that our Lord would ever do such a cruel thing?
If they are genuinely converted we should call on them to leave the RCC. And you know that the Spirit of God who indwells the truly converted would constrain them to leave.
As for SteveR, he and his ilk are errorists of the worst kind - who under the guise of love send millions to hell! He should be warned and shunned.
Michael Hranek wrote: Because what we are asking is that for the sake of Truth, for the sake of Jesus Christ and the Gospel that they themselves be willing to put their own lives on the line, and be willing to stand despite the consequences, and in their own local church perhaps very very alone.
I always like to remind myself and others of the fact that the Roman religious machine has been on a murderous rampage since the very beginning. To me, Rome is no different than the Muslims who are sworn to convert or kill. Romes mindset has never changed, they were simply forced to go underground and supress the killing machine...for now. The church of Rome has been responsible for the most horrific attrocities and mass murders known to mankind I totally understand that it had to happen, but the Roman/Jewish Pharisees carried out Jesus' slow, painful death on the cross, not to mention the beatings, the crown of thorns pushed onto His scalp, the whippings, the humiliation, etc, etc. Then came the inquisitions when, just like the Muslims, it was convert or be murdered. Historians say that the church murdered an estimated 50, 000, 000 because, according to them, they were heretics; believing that infant baptism didn't save the soul, etc. After that came Hitler and Mussolini who killed, tortured, and experimented on untold millions of Jews; all with the churches approval which signed concordats with them and accepted money to look away. Now, the Roman church continues to murder, but only dealing with the souls of men these days, but stay tuned...
Don't waste your time wrote: To love the enemies of God as though they are the children of God is what you are advocating and that is devilish in the extreme!!
Don't Waste I've been chewing on the issue of RC's treated as if they are genuine born again children of God for some time now, so let me ask you a question.
If someone like SteveR holds a position like he does, how can we best get through to them with the Truth if they are emotionally attached to a pastor/church that holds and promotes these kind of false beliefs?
Because what we are asking is that for the sake of Truth, for the sake of Jesus Christ and the Gospel that they themselves be willing to put their own lives on the line, and be willing to stand despite the consequences, and in their own local church perhaps very very alone.
SteveR wrote: The moderator told me I had to be nice to you, maybe I hurt your feelings? Anyways, I will not respond to you, but leave you with this. Saving faith requires something you seem to be void of, Love for your brethren. Like you, the devil and his demons despise Gods People. There is no Love in them. 1 John 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 1 John 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
Loving Gods people is right. But you've not demonstrated in the least that any Roman Catholic is one of God's children.
To love the enemies of God as though they are the children of God is what you are advocating and that is devilish in the extreme!!
SteveR wrote: They have faith, they might not understand it as you do but they have faith
Your works based religion like the Roman Catholic fallacy, sees faith as merely an educational process. IE: The brainiest people get to heaven. But just like the RCC that trust in "church" "tradition" and human effort does not save.
This is how the elect know Christ and His doctrine and can reject the idolatry and heresy of Rome. "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." John 16:13.
ps; The Holy Spirit doesn't attend the Roman Catholic false witness.
Mark 3 24 "And if a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 "And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. 26 "And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but he is finished!---NASB
Considering that a Christian has the Holy Spirit indwelling in him, He and a demon can't be in the same body, which shows the typical Catholic isn't Christian, (See Demonism).
COMMENTS | 
), some are here for 'religious entertainment' and some are here 'to oppose the Truth and promote their own "ism"', and some God has led her in their "curiosity" who will hear the Truth they aren't hearing out there in the modern ecumenical religious world.
