Two days before the US Senate holds hearings on the nomination of Chuck Hagel as the next secretary of defense, a pro-Israel advocacy group headed to Capitol Hill on Tuesday to lobby against his confirmation.
Christians United for Israel said that more than 400 pastors and lay leaders from 46 states answered their call to come to Washington to express their concerns about the former Republican senator from Nebraska just six days after being approached by the organization.
“The response far surpassed our expectations,” said David Brog, CUFI executive director, who added it was a sign of the deep reservations the organization’s membership had about Hagel holding the top job at the Pentagon....
No, Rufus, Muhammadans never lived peaceably with anybody, including each other. But then as a Satanic religion what else should be expected? As God said of the Arabs, they will multiply greatly as Ishmael is their father.
Unprofitable Servant wrote: Just wondering, is there anywhere we can look in the world that those who populate the space now are not there because their ancestors took it by force?
England. They have often criticized the US for rebellion against the God-ordained King George 3, so how could they have forcefully displaced God-ordained prior authority?
Just wondering, is there anywhere we can look in the world that those who populate the space now are not there because their ancestors took it by force?
theWayPA wrote: I notice that you did not answer the initial question: does Israel/the Jewish people have a right to exist or not?
Only so much you can respond to in 1500 characters.
The Jewish people most certainly have a right to exist. They are made in the likeness and image of God and thus God clearly granted them the right to exist. I will add that there is something special about these people who are beloved of the father and of whom he committed the oracles of God. Now, I ask of you, do the Palestinian people have a right to exist?
As to the nation-state of Israel having a right to exist. I believe 1948 was a prophetical fulfillment of Israel being restored in unbelief. However, just because it is fulfilled prophecy does not necessarily make it right nor was it necessarily a right granted by God. Prior to Israel being restored, Palestinians and Jews lived harmoniously. I ask, did Palestine have a right to exist as it was prior to it's existence being methodically eliminated?
Rufus wrote: Equating opposition to the nation state of Israel as "hatred of the Jewish people" is unfair. The positions that I espouse are held by Naturei Ketai, by True Torah Jews. Should I label yourself and Jim and theWayPA as being "anti-semites" or "haters of Jews", "nazis" etc. because you do not have the same position as these Jews? It is a Jewish belief that the diaspora was not to end until their Messiah had restored them to Israel. Now the Rothschilds and reformed Judaism comes along and conquers Israel by force without the Messiah. These issues are bigger than simplifying them to oh he must be a nazi, a Jew hater etc. Likewise, should I call you all haters of Palestinians for not being a sympathetic voice for their plight? Are you not Christians? Caring for all men or do you care only for people based on their blood?
I notice that you did not answer the initial question: does Israel/the Jewish people have a right to exist or not?
Rufus, Iran is one of the major terrorist countries of the Middle East, even it's Arab neighbors consider it dangerous, especially those of the Sunni beliefs rather then Shia. There are less than 9,000 Jews now in Iran and will be even less than that because of unnatural attrition Iranian Jewish man murdered in Tehran. Just consider Iran North Korea -- East. Anyway, a commentary by American Peacenik Clinton: Iran sending people, weapons to Syria.
They are treasonous for attending an anti-terrorism conference? Aren't you opposed to terrorism Jim or are you just so "anti-Semitic" that you can not say something kind about these rabbis who desire peace? Also, are the Persian Jews treasonous as well for not accepting $10,000 to expatriate to Israel? Why would they be so steadfast in their support of Iran and Ahmadinejad if Iran and their leader are such great haters of Jews?
Rufus wrote: Equating opposition to the nation state of Israel as "hatred of the Jewish people" is unfair. The positions that I espouse are held by Naturei Ketai, by True Torah Jews. Should I label yourself and Jim and theWayPA as being "anti-semites" or "haters of Jews", "nazis" etc. because you do not have the same position as these Jews? It is a Jewish belief that the diaspora was not to end until their Messiah had restored them to Israel. Now the Rothschilds and reformed Judaism comes along and conquers Israel by force without the Messiah. These issues are bigger than simplifying them to oh he must be a nazi, a Jew hater etc. Likewise, should I call you all haters of Palestinians for not being a sympathetic voice for their plight? Are you not Christians? Caring for all men or do you care only for people based on their blood?
I'm not sure pointing out a Jewish belief about the Messiah lends credibility to the argument, Rufus. As for the Palestinians, they are no more entitled to the land than anyone else, and didn't become a political entity until the 20th century either, mostly as a response to Zionism and Jewish immigration. But you are correct in that all these peoples are Semitic, thought they might not like the idea of being cousins.
Michael Hranek wrote: IMHO a hatred of Israel and/or Jewish people is grieveously out of step with Romans 10, and vilely dishonest concerning Islam and perhaps Nazi Germany too, something that reminds me of the RCC and Replacement Theology. Oops, I've probably upset some 'reformed' by mentioning that.
Good morning, Michael.
As you know, not all who disagree with dispensensational theology have a hatred of the nation/state of Israel. Nor do they want to see the destruction of the same as though they were allied with Iran, Palestine, etc. but actually pray for their salvation as Paul did. In fact, I believe it is safe to say that no real born again Christian could harbor hatred for this people. Furthermore, Replacement Theology or Reformed Theology are not the only alternatives to dispensationalism.
I, for one, believe the nation state of Israel is a valuable secular ally of the United States in the Middle East and, as such, worthy of our nation's support. However, I do not believe the formation of the nation/state of Israel in 1948 was the fulfillment of any biblical prophecy.
Moreover, I believe your comment was very uncharitable to your brothers and sisters in Christ who do not hold to dispensationalism.
Michael Hranek wrote: theWayPA I appreciate your post. IMHO a hatred of Israel and/or Jewish people is grieveously out of step with Romans 10, and vilely dishonest concerning Islam and perhaps Nazi Germany too, ...
Equating opposition to the nation state of Israel as "hatred of the Jewish people" is unfair. The positions that I espouse are held by Naturei Ketai, by True Torah Jews. Should I label yourself and Jim and theWayPA as being "anti-semites" or "haters of Jews", "nazis" etc. because you do not have the same position as these Jews? It is a Jewish belief that the diaspora was not to end until their Messiah had restored them to Israel. Now the Rothschilds and reformed Judaism comes along and conquers Israel by force without the Messiah. These issues are bigger than simplifying them to oh he must be a nazi, a Jew hater etc. Likewise, should I call you all haters of Palestinians for not being a sympathetic voice for their plight? Are you not Christians? Caring for all men or do you care only for people based on their blood?
theWayPA wrote: Rufus, Why do you always seem to have this reaction to defending Israel's right to exist? Can you not see that regimes like the one in Iran and Muslim fundamentalists do NOT want to to co-exist with Israel, but want them annihilated as part of their will to jihad? Why do you seem so against Israel? I have never seen Jim Lincoln or anyone else of a more dispensational understanding calling for the extermination of other people groups, so please do not wash us with that straw man. I have seen enough antisemitism on this website that it sickens me, but I have not seen ANYONE calling for the extermination of Iranians (BTW, antisemitism has in mind a specific hatred of Jewish people; this is the definition of the word. Please do not assume that those who use it care not for the plight of other Semites)? Just answer this; does Israel and the Jewish people have a right to exist?
theWayPA I appreciate your post. IMHO a hatred of Israel and/or Jewish people is grieveously out of step with Romans 10, and vilely dishonest concerning Islam and perhaps Nazi Germany too, something that reminds me of the RCC and Replacement Theology. Oops, I've probably upset some 'reformed' by mentioning that.
"Rufus, Why...Israel's right to exist?" Because I am opposed to property theft, are you not?
"Can you not ... annihilated as part of their will to jihad?" Iran desires the Israeli regime to be changed but don't confuse this with antagonism or a desired annihilation of Jews. Jews have lived as equal citizens in Persia for thousands of years.
"Why ... so against Israel?" I am opposed to the house of Rothschild who is the primary benefactor of this state and is the addressee in the Balfour Declaration. I am opposed to folks stealing land via violence. I am opposed to the act of war committed against my country when they slaughtered our sailors on the U.S.S. Liberty. I am opposed to their bulldozing of a human being and fellow citizen, Rachel Corrie etc. "I have never ... extermination of other people groups" Nor have I. This drum beating of CUFI, Jim Lincoln and like-minded Zionists is the same type of mess we heard before the coalition of the willing killed over 1 million Iraqis. If we proceed with the same program hundreds of thousands to millions of Persians will die.
"...antisemitism,... definition..." Who decided this definition and why is it exclusive to only a certain subset of the descendents of Shem why is it synonymous with opposition to Zionism?
Rufus wrote: Sons of Shem = Elam. Elamites = Persians. Genesis 10:22 - The sons of Shem were Elam and Asshur and Arpachshad and Lud and Aram.
Rufus, Why do you always seem to have this reaction to defending Israel's right to exist? Can you not see that regimes like the one in Iran and Muslim fundamentalists do NOT want to to co-exist with Israel, but want them annihilated as part of their will to jihad? Why do you seem so against Israel? I have never seen Jim Lincoln or anyone else of a more dispensational understanding calling for the extermination of other people groups, so please do not wash us with that straw man. I have seen enough antisemitism on this website that it sickens me, but I have not seen ANYONE calling for the extermination of Iranians (BTW, antisemitism has in mind a specific hatred of Jewish people; this is the definition of the word. Please do not assume that those who use it care not for the plight of other Semites)? Just answer this; does Israel and the Jewish people have a right to exist?
Jim Lincoln wrote: Persians are not Semitic, though who desires their destruction? We don't even desire the destruction of the North Koreans, just their government. The Iranian Threat is not just to Israel, but to all countries, just like the government of North Korea is a threat to the rest of the world. So, Hagel's lack of will to handle threats like Iran is a serious defect in his character for being the Secretary of Defense.
Sons of Shem = Elam. Elamites = Persians.
Genesis 10:22 - The sons of Shem were Elam and Asshur and Arpachshad and Lud and Aram.
Persians are not Semitic, though who desires their destruction? We don't even desire the destruction of the North Koreans, just their government. The Iranian Threat is not just to Israel, but to all countries, just like the government of North Korea is a threat to the rest of the world.
So, Hagel's lack of will to handle threats like Iran is a serious defect in his character for being the Secretary of Defense.
Jim Lincoln wrote: These gentlemen are just being Biblical, being anti-Israel is being anti-Semitic, and thus anti-Christian.
...
Is it not likewise anti-Semitic to desire the destruction of the Semitic people of Persia or is it only certain people that are allowed to use the anti-Semite card?
Genesis 12 2 And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing; 3 And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."---NASB
These gentlemen are just being Biblical, being anti-Israel is being anti-Semitic, and thus anti-Christian. Christian Zionists: The Real Terrorists? This author does a good job of pointing out, we aren't.
Gil Rugh said or, wrote: .... Of necessary inclusion are the biblical reasons that this kingdom cannot, and is not, present on the earth today. Foundational is an understanding of the unconditional and eternal promises of a land, seed and blessing made by God to Abraham.
An accurate understanding of the details of this kingdom are of critical importance because they influence not only future hope, but also one's worldview of this present life, society, culture and regard for the nation of Israel.
Dr. Alan Cairns | 5/18/2009
COMMENTS | 
beaver: "
mike
maybe you'd like to pick a more suitable adjective.
my, my,..."
