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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | FF | SA News
FRONT PAGE  |  12/3/2016
SUNDAY, JAN 20, 2013  |  43 comments
Obama’s Gun Control Proposals Get Support From the Vatican

The Vatican praised President Barack Obama’s proposals for curbing gun violence, saying they are a “step in the right direction.”

The Vatican’s chief spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi, said Saturday that 47 religious leaders have appealed to members of the U.S. Congress “to limit firearms that are making society pay an unacceptable price in terms of massacres and senseless deaths.”

“I am with them,” Lombardi said, in an editorial carried on Vatican Radio, lining up the Vatican’s moral support in favor of firearm limits. ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 43 user comment(s)
News Item1/23/13 1:50 PM
Gargoyle  Find all comments by Gargoyle
Mike wrote:
No, we're idiots

I wonder why "Total Depravity" is not used as reason to show why police or military should not have guns?
The problem of fatal police shootings in America goes beyond a few bad apples. It points to persistent and systemic problems that lead to ongoing tragedies for communities of color. Between 1980 and 2005, close to 9,600 people were killed by police in America -- an average of about one fatal shooting every day. However, the real number may be higher due to underreporting by some departments to the federal government. For example, the Los Angeles Police Department responded to a Freedom of Information Act request by claiming there were 79 fatal police shootings from 2000 to 2005. Yet only 38 fatal shootings were reported to the federal government for the same period.
43

News Item1/23/13 12:29 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Heart's deceitful wrote:
The U.S. has 300 million lethal weapons. One for each man, woman and child. No doubt, people will surely die.
Gun Ownership + Total Depravity.
We're idiots if we think this is a good idea.
No, we're idiots if we can't add 2+2 and come up with 4. The only thing the 300M "lethal weapon" number would prove, if true, is that the number of crimes done with guns is microscopic compared with the number of guns owned. Which then demonstrates the claim that more control over them is needed because "there are too many guns" is blatantly false.

I wonder why "Total Depravity" is not used as reason to show why police or military should not have guns? Perhaps "Heart's deceitful" is an accurate moniker?

42

News Item1/23/13 12:01 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
variables wrote:
Ooohh John. You socialist you!!
Sure I am socialist in the biblical sense of the word. You'll have noticed that Jesus did not restrict his treatment of the sick to those who could afford to pay. Indeed, he never charged anyone anything for the miraculous healing he provided, especially for the poor. And if you search out the scriptures, you will find that God is extremely concerned that his people "remember the poor", something which middle-class churchiosity folks seem to conveniently ignore.

And if that hits a button, so be it. Don't respond in anger, but think and pray about what I've just said, and get your life revolutionised, bringing it in line with biblical principles which, after all, will bring you in line with a sanctified existence which is pleasing to God.

Work out what God wants, and then do it.

41

News Item1/23/13 10:54 AM
variables  Find all comments by variables
John UK wrote:
You may, if you wish, go back to the days before the NHS, and have all the poor people die early for lack of affordable treatment. In those days, all doctor's services were paid for directly, which put many people beyond them
Ooohh John. You socialist you!!

Tell me John, is longevity a blessing of God's providence or a punishment?

Growingoldbut wrote:
The UK health system is a shocker when it comes to the elderly
Your experience of hospital life in the modern Liberal morally corrupted Kingdom of Sodom and Gomorah. And of course a fallen world. Both locations are where we as Christians must trust only in God.

ps. Thats not been my experience in my dotage thus far.

40

News Item1/23/13 10:16 AM
Kyle | Tucson  Find all comments by Kyle
Heart's deceitful wrote:
The U.S. has 300 million lethal weapons. One for each man, woman and child. No doubt, people will surely die.
Gun Ownership + Total Depravity.
We're idiots if we think this is a good idea.
What you're advocating is a prisoner's dilemma with 300 million players. We're idiots if we think THAT will work out.
39

News Item1/23/13 10:11 AM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Heart's deceitful wrote:
The U.S. has 300 million lethal weapons. One for each man, woman and child. No doubt, people will surely die.
Gun Ownership + Total Depravity.
We're idiots if we think this is a good idea.
Where is your example of 300 million or anywhere near that number being used in violent acts. I can save you the research, it doesn't exist. Look at guns used in crimes, how many are stolen or not registered. People who own guns legitimately are rarely ones involved in crimes. Insanity would be to forbid the citizens to enjoy the right to bear arms.
38

News Item1/23/13 7:45 AM
Heart's deceitful  Find all comments by Heart's deceitful
The U.S. has 300 million lethal weapons. One for each man, woman and child. No doubt, people will surely die.

Gun Ownership + Total Depravity.

We're idiots if we think this is a good idea.

37

News Item1/23/13 7:40 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
"Growingoldbut from don'tletthemkillmeinhospital"

Wowzers...now there's one for the record books! Ha-ha.

36

News Item1/23/13 7:33 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Growingoldbut wrote:
The UK health system is a shocker when it comes to the elderly- evolutionary indoctrination means many nurses have little or no compassion. Having chest pains and taken to the local emergency hospital I witnessed a number of tattooed female nurses whose care was like a vegetarian pushing an offensive smelling dead piece of meat around on a trolley. Before you ask...this was my observation of how other patients were being treated. Their chat was an abomination; the ambulance drivers joked together like reprobates around very sick patients. Have seen this repeatedly when taking elderly mother to hospital; very little real compassion or respect
Sure, it is true. It happens also in many care homes for the elderly and infirm. But whereas you can pick a Christian Care Home, I am not aware of any Christian hospitals. But then, no-one forces you to make use of doctors, hospitals etc. You may, if you wish, go back to the days before the NHS, and have all the poor people die early for lack of affordable treatment. In those days, all doctor's services were paid for directly, which put many people beyond them. Or you could go back to the 12th century and make use of quaks or your own herbitary diet.
35

News Item1/23/13 7:06 AM
Kyle | Tucson  Find all comments by Kyle
protect them wrote:
The proof of the premise is to be seen at Sandy Hook.
Prevent these massacres of children by removing the guns from the shopping centres, or continue to allow these slaughters by your current moral standards. One or the other!!
False dichotomy and an error of fact! My moral standard does not allow for cold blooded murder.

Sandy Hook proves that humanity is fallen. I also have the right to keep and bear, but I haven't killed anyone. You must consider me a ticking time bomb, eh?

34

News Item1/22/13 6:55 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
protect them wrote:
Mike, I didn't realise you Americans couldn't spell "centre" either.
---
I didn't realize you across the pond couldn't spell realize. I Guess we're even.

Oh, here's a couple links to help you understand things in your more civilized country:

nasty civilized people

more nasty civilized people

33

News Item1/22/13 6:41 PM
Growingoldbut | don'tletthemkillmeinhospital  Find all comments by Growingoldbut
The UK health system is a shocker when it comes to the elderly- evolutionary indoctrination means many nurses have little or no compassion. Having chest pains and taken to the local emergency hospital I witnessed a number of tattooed female nurses whose care was like a vegetarian pushing an offensive smelling dead piece of meat around on a trolley. Before you ask...this was my observation of how other patients were being treated. Their chat was an abomination; the ambulance drivers joked together like reprobates around very sick patients. Have seen this repeatedly when taking elderly mother to hospital; very little real compassion or respect

Proof:
see
see
see
see
see

32

News Item1/22/13 6:37 PM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
You all are pretty amazing...you know your stuff. Differing opinions, but the wealth of knowledge is impressive.
31

News Item1/22/13 3:30 PM
protect them  Find all comments by protect them
Mike wrote:
Proofless premise. The Sandy Hook killer did not get the weapon at a shopping center. Or centre.
Mike, I didn't realise you Americans couldn't spell "centre" either.

News item;
"The East Winsdor gun store which sourced at least one of the guns used in the Sandy Hook elementary school shooting was raided by federal firearms agents last night.

Officers from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) swooped on Riverside Gun Sales at 5pm yesterday evening, as officers from East Police Department cordoned off the plaza.

The raid was a result of security worries at the store after it was revealed the premises had been robbed of a rifle similar to the one used in the Newtown shooting, just four days before the tragedy." dailymail.co.uk

30

News Item1/22/13 3:08 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
AJP Taylor wrote:
Until you provide a well referenced source for this it will be filed in the round container.

Strawman.

No, the US is actually leading the way. None of the countries have anything to be proud of, but, medium term projections out to 2016 put the USA behind only already bankrupt Greece out of the countries you named.
The full top 6 in Gross Government Debt as a % of GDP are
1. Japan
2. Greece
3. Lebanon
4. Saint Kitts and Nevis
5. Eritrea
6. United States.
The European countries figure include the required funding for their health and social security programmes.As you note, the US medicaid and medicare are unfunded. So the list above actually understates the severity of the situation for the USA.
You are in the doggy doo, big time, sad to say.

There are all sorts of references on the web, just google doctor stoppage in Canada, but here is one http://www.haciendapub.com/medicalsentinel/re-privatizing-medicine-canada-back-door----healthcare is not free is a fact, and again it is NOT the government's responsibility to offer or provide for healthcare.
29

News Item1/22/13 2:06 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
It just means we have to raise taxes to the 70% or higher level on wealthy Americans.

Spending will have to be cut in pork barrel projects.

Germany isn't doing badly, Greece and some of the other countries not only don't have fairness in their austerity programs but also in their tax codes, Greece Drinks the Hemlock.

Put it this way a slim majority of the Supreme Court said in effect you can keep a handgun in you home to protect yourself, family, they used the 14th Amendment to apply to the states, Justices Extend Firearm Rights in 5-to-4 Ruling

Oh, and a little less distractions for the article, NRA Gun Control Crusade Reflects Firearms Industry Financial Ties. See, why your stock in gun companies shouldn't drop.

28

News Item1/22/13 1:06 PM
AJP Taylor  Find all comments by AJP Taylor
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
I remember a situation from our neighbors to north in which the doctors stop working because the system ran out of money (would you work for free) and people suffered or waited even longer.
Until you provide a well referenced source for this it will be filed in the round container.

Unprofitable Servant wrote:
There is NO SUCH THING as FREE healthcare
Strawman.

Unprofitable Servant wrote:
Greece, Spain, Italy are on the verge of bankruptcy. U.K. and Germany not far behind. U.S. going that way.
No, the US is actually leading the way. None of the countries have anything to be proud of, but, medium term projections out to 2016 put the USA behind only already bankrupt Greece out of the countries you named.

The full top 6 in Gross Government Debt as a % of GDP are
1. Japan
2. Greece
3. Lebanon
4. Saint Kitts and Nevis
5. Eritrea
6. United States.

The European countries figure include the required funding for their health and social security programmes.As you note, the US medicaid and medicare are unfunded. So the list above actually understates the severity of the situation for the USA.

You are in the doggy doo, big time, sad to say.

27

News Item1/22/13 12:55 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
I remember a situation from our neighbors to north in which the doctors stop working because the system ran out of money (would you work for free) and people suffered or waited even longer. The system works in Utopia. Check out the definition. In the U.S. case healthcare is provided currently through unfunded mandates called medicaid and medicare, along with tons of other give away, so yes it does create deficits. Greece, Spain, Italy are on the verge of bankruptcy. U.K. and Germany not far behind. U.S. going that way. There is NO SUCH THING as FREE healthcare
True, true, but the health care system in the UK is par excellence, and very akin to the Christian ethic.

We pay an involuntary amount out of pay packet to fund it. The healthy, although they might not gain any benefit, at least have that insurance if anything goes wrong. They can have a trip to hospital, make use of the highest skills, best equipment, and treatment. And of course, the poor, who would probably not pay voluntarily, have access to operations etc. which they never could have afforded, as even a simple operation is quoted at 5k plus at a private facility. I have no grumbles at all.

26

News Item1/22/13 12:40 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
AJP Taylor wrote:
Your neighbour to the north has remarkably resilient public finances, combined with public healthcare. So much so that the UK just poached Mark Carney from being Governor of the Bank of Canada to become Governor of the Bank of England.
External debt per capita (values stated in US dollars):
USA $52,170
Canada $29,625
EU average $27,864
UK $15,795
It is evidently not public healthcare that drives the worst budget deficits.
I remember a situation from our neighbors to north in which the doctors stop working because the system ran out of money (would you work for free) and people suffered or waited even longer. The system works in Utopia. Check out the definition. In the U.S. case healthcare is provided currently through unfunded mandates called medicaid and medicare, along with tons of other give away, so yes it does create deficits. Greece, Spain, Italy are on the verge of bankruptcy. U.K. and Germany not far behind. U.S. going that way. There is NO SUCH THING as FREE healthcare
25

News Item1/22/13 12:04 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
protect them wrote:
The proof of the premise is to be seen at Sandy Hook.
Prevent these massacres of children by removing the guns from the shopping centres, or continue to allow these slaughters by your current moral standards. One or the other!!
Proofless premise. The Sandy Hook killer did not get the weapon at a shopping center. Or centre.
24
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