Tens of thousands of Americans across the nation today are showing their support for Hobby Lobby, the Christian-owned company now facing millions of dollars in fines for refusing to comply with Obamacare’s contraception mandate.
“This is not just about Hobby Lobby–this is about you,” said former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee. “If Hobby Lobby is forced to eat the ‘king’s meat’ and ‘bow on their knees’ to a human government in direct conflict with their fundamentals of faith, then how long will it be before they come for you and your family?”
The appreciation day is similar to one Huckabee helped launch to support Chick-fil-A after that Christian-owned company came under attack from militant homosexual groups....
Unpopular one wrote: I know this will be unpopular, BUT, if Hobby Lobby is a registered corporation then it is a creature of government. You can't have 2 masters(God and the Government), once they incorporated the business, it(Hobby Lobby) became a servant to what government wants it to be. You can't keep expecting to receive the benefits of incorporating and not expect government to enforce what it wants in return. They contracted, now they should obey the contract or find a different way of doing business.
I don't think your comment was unpopular at all! In fact, I agree fully with it.
I know this will be unpopular, BUT, if Hobby Lobby is a registered corporation then it is a creature of government. You can't have 2 masters(God and the Government), once they incorporated the business, it(Hobby Lobby) became a servant to what government wants it to be. You can't keep expecting to receive the benefits of incorporating and not expect government to enforce what it wants in return.
They contracted, now they should obey the contract or find a different way of doing business.
Ah, posted without comment, this site has some interesting comments such as from Cal Thomas, though this isn't one of them, but this commentary even if not by Cal is worth looking at, Sotomayor's Blow to Religious Liberty
Mike wrote: Well allah be darned, John, you amaze and astonish rather easily. Alas I lack the feeling of guilt over my post. Would it help to whup myself with a chain?
John UK wrote: --- Mike I am astonished that such a thought could even enter your head. That is EXACTLY what the militant moslems are doing all around the world.
Well allah be darned, John, you amaze and astonish rather easily. Alas I lack the feeling of guilt over my post. Would it help to whup myself with a chain?
1. I know a Christian man who marches up and down streets with a placard with a Bible verse on it. He is communicating God's word. We also have the "March for Jesus" where pseudo-Christians go out for a walk together, singing Graham Kendrick songs and meeting up at the pub later. Their message to the world is that Christianity is just a purer form of worldliness.
2. Let me amplify. I am amazed that so many Christians, who did not want a mormon in the White House, voted for Obama effectively, even if they abstained. If you want to go deeper into the paradoxical unity of God's sovereignty and mans' responsibility, you will need a theologian for that.
3. So although God can turn the hearts of kings whithersoever he willeth, it is better for us to frighten the politician into thinking he will lose his job, and thus get him to change his mind in our favour, because if he doesn't he will lose his job at the next election. Mob rules okay.
Mike I am astonished that such a thought could even enter your head. That is EXACTLY what the militant moslems are doing all around the world.
John UK wrote: --- ...deteriorated in the conclusion, talkng about decisions made for fear of losing votes, which is the worldlings' way of looking at it. Don't ever forget that the President was put there by God not by the voters. It amazes me that so many people voted for this nutter because they didn't want a cult member to be President. Marches are not a God-ordained means of representing Christ in this world.
I'll give it another go, John, with expansion.
Re: your last statement, how is it marches are not God-ordained, but posting Bible verses on the internet is?
How is it the president was put there "by God, not by the voters," yet you are "amazed that so many voted for this nutter..." What I hear you saying is God put the nutter in, so why the amazement?
To the original comment, if a worldling politician does the right thing because of a fear of losing his job otherwise, so be it. Why is his motive the issue for a Christian voter? The Christian is concerned with his decisions, no? That's why I posted Phil. 1:18. If the principle exists that it's ok that Christ be preached though motive be wrong, I wouldn't let a little thing like fear of job loss not be motive for politicians to do right.
These theologians presumed that abortion was only a "Catholic issue." Now, after 40 years of this moral mudslide, the government is even shoving the Christian's face in the abortifacients pile. What's next?
If Evangelical Protestants really wanted to avoid marching lock-step to the White House gate with their Roman Catholic brethren today, they would have pitched a fit at the Supreme Court after Roe v. Wade was handed on Monday, January 22, 1973. But that dreadful day saw no Protestant protest.
The only thing left to do now is jump in the back of the Respect-Life 'bandwagon' (with David Green and 10,000s of other Evangelical brothers) when it stops in your town on its way to D.C.
John UK wrote: Thanks US, I never read that in the article. Well if that is all they do, fine, I have no problem with that. But I think you'll find a bandwagon will shortly roll, and all sorts of professing Christians will be jumping onto it, hoping to make use of the situation for their own pernicious ends. Mike, sorry I couldn't reply to yours as I could understand it not. If you would like to rephrase it for this ol' turnip, I will have a go at replying. Frank, excellent post. You have put into words far better than me, what I have been trying to say. Thanks.
Yes, you and I do agree on this issue. The church is the church and any moral cause that I will be part of will not be "intentionally" divided. As an aside; the week is up with your "buffet" sister.
I will be out most of the day, so I hope you have a great day. You will be in bed when I return.
Unprofitable Servant wrote: seeing that we are dealing with worldings' (because I was referring to Congress) and that is how they operate, and the solution for over turning legislation would be Congress or the courts. Plus this was not a rally it was people going to Hobby Lobby and spending their money as a way of support
Thanks US, I never read that in the article. Well if that is all they do, fine, I have no problem with that. But I think you'll find a bandwagon will shortly roll, and all sorts of professing Christians will be jumping onto it, hoping to make use of the situation for their own pernicious ends.
Mike, sorry I couldn't reply to yours as I could understand it not. If you would like to rephrase it for this ol' turnip, I will have a go at replying.
Frank, excellent post. You have put into words far better than me, what I have been trying to say. Thanks.
I tend to agree with you rather than the other posts. I am a pilgrim in this world; therefore I would avoid what I would call Christian activism which invariably will fellowship or form a moral relationship with the unsaved. The primary way for Christians to interact with or change society is through voting, prayer or to individually disobey governmental laws when they believe the government is trying to get them to disobey God. Perhaps a good case could be made for a church body to band together in some type of protest, but this is not the case here. Just substitute Hobby Lobby for a Catholic concern and then ask yourselves; would you march for them "or give money" to their cause? If that doesn’t work, how about a Mormon or an Islamic business enterprise? Is someone really going to say that a business is a church? The fact that Huckabee supports a cause would cause me to avoid it like the plague. He is one of the biggest ecumenicalists, so any success given him or his ventures will not lead men to Christ, but away from Christ.
John UK wrote: Yes US, your scripture example is another one I had in mind and would have posted. But then you deteriorated in the conclusion, talkng about decisions made for fear of losing votes, which is the worldlings' way of looking at it. Don't ever forget that the President was put there by God not by the voters. It amazes me that so many people voted for this nutter because they didn't want a cult member to be President. Marches are not a God-ordained means of representing Christ in this world.
seeing that we are dealing with worldings' (because I was referring to Congress) and that is how they operate, and the solution for over turning legislation would be Congress or the courts. Plus this was not a rally it was people going to Hobby Lobby and spending their money as a way of support
John UK wrote: --- But then you deteriorated in the conclusion, talkng about decisions made for fear of losing votes, which is the worldlings' way of looking at it. Don't ever forget that the President was put there by God not by the voters. It amazes me that so many people voted for this nutter because they didn't want a cult member to be President. ---
Why should one care about the reasons someone has for doing what is in effect the right thing? Let the scoundrels worry about their jobs, it's their decisions I care about, not their motive for them. Need a principle?
Philippians 1:18 "What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice."
Lurker wrote: John, 1. I'm puzzled. You said God put Obama in office. He also set Nebuchadnezzar to rule over His people so would you contend that Daniel was wrong to pray to God when Neb ordered that he not do so? Should Shadrach, Meshach and Adednego have worshipped the golden image when the music sounded in violation of their God given conscience? 2. While I am opposed to political activism in the ordinary sense, I don't believe what Hobby Lobby, or those who show support for Hobby Lobby, is doing is political activism any more that what Daniel and his fellows were doing was political activism. They were obeying God rather than heathens. 3. Perhaps this is the test Christians are given in this apostate age when ungodly men such as Obama and Cameron are given rule over His heritage? Will we obey heathens against our God given conscience or will we obey God?
Okay bro 1. To obey God perfectly is perfection and was rightly Daniel's goal. 2. We have yet to see what the so-called supporters of Hobby Lobby will engage in. Then we will be able to analyse it better. Both the company and those who claim to support it MUST obey God and do all things HIS way. 3. For myself, I will never go against my conscience, so whatever happens, happens.
John UK wrote: Marches are not a God-ordained means of representing Christ in this world.
John,
I'm puzzled. You said God put Obama in office. He also set Nebuchadnezzar to rule over His people so would you contend that Daniel was wrong to pray to God when Neb ordered that he not do so? Should Shadrach, Meshach and Adednego have worshipped the golden image when the music sounded in violaation of their God given conscience?
While I am opposed to political activism in the ordinary sense, I don't believe what Hobby Lobby, or those who show support for Hobby Lobby, is doing is political activism any more that what Daniel and his fellows were doing was political activism. They were obeying God rather than heathens.
Perhaps this is the test Christians are given in this apostate age when ungodly men such as Obama and Cameron are given rule over His heritage? Will we obey heathens against our God given conscience or will we obey God?
Unprofitable Servant wrote: John UK, Paul was not afraid to advise those about to beat him that he was a Roman citizen to stop the scourging. God works through human instrumentality, of course they should use the justice system to overturn an unconstitutional law. Thousands will show up to support Roe v Wade and march on Washington, the world does not see the bowed knee in the closet (although that is critical) it does see the thousands showing support. Seeing that they are trying to affect legislation, it is important that representatives know that they an adverse vote could cost them. We need to work within the parameters that God has given us.
Yes US, your scripture example is another one I had in mind and would have posted.
But then you deteriorated in the conclusion, talkng about decisions made for fear of losing votes, which is the worldlings' way of looking at it. Don't ever forget that the President was put there by God not by the voters. It amazes me that so many people voted for this nutter because they didn't want a cult member to be President.
Marches are not a God-ordained means of representing Christ in this world.
John UK, Paul was not afraid to advise those about to beat him that he was a Roman citizen to stop the scourging. God works through human instrumentality, of course they should use the justice system to overturn an unconstitutional law. Thousands will show up to support Roe v Wade and march on Washington, the world does not see the bowed knee in the closet (although that is critical) it does see the thousands showing support. Seeing that they are trying to affect legislation, it is important that representatives know that they an adverse vote could cost them. We need to work within the parameters that God has given us.
There are some who imagine a "show of strength" is the way forward in putting a Christian perspective to the world.
I wonder how many of my brethren and sisters on here have been on a "March for Jesus" alongside nominal Christians, Catholics etc. NONE I hope!
Now I hope that not merely tens of thousands are standing with HL on this, but the entire born again Christian community, not to hold marches or behave like militant moslems, but crying out to the Great God who can change things overnight. Literally.
However, as we are in the endtimes of the endtimes, should we not expect the rage of Satan, the rage of the unregenerate world, the persecution which is prophecied, the difficulties of being a Christian in a world which is opposed to Christianity? What do we want, to go to heaven on a bed of rose petals? Or does the Bible say that through much tribulation we shall enter the kingdom of heaven?
What does God tell us to do with governments? In the passage I quoted, it seems we are to sometimes testify AGAINST it, when unjustly brought before rulers. In other passages it tells us to PRAY FOR them, that we may be able to live quietly and godly in this world.
I don't know what all the fuss is about.
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Paul Fountain | 1/30/2009
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Alas I lack the feeling of guilt over my post. Would it help to whup myself with a chain?
