Published last October, a new Norwegian translation of the Bible has been one of the top 15 bestsellers in the country for 54 out of the last 56 weeks, jostling for position with more populist titles from the likes of EL James, James Nesbø, Ken Follett and Per Petterson. It is now one of the bestselling books of the year, according to Dag Smemo, project manager for publisher the Norwegian Bible Society, with 157,000 copies sold in the last 14 months, and more time in the charts than both Fifty Shades of Grey and Justin Bieber's autobiography.
Smemo puts the popularity of the book – among Christians and non-believers alike – down to the strength of its translation. The Bible Society worked with Hebrew and Greek experts on the original text, and then involved literary writers including A Death in the Family author Karl Ove Knausgaard to perfect it.
Interesting that a Jesuit like Jim would attack Rev 17:4 and 17:8 since it is describing the woman arrayed in purple and scarlet, decked with gold and precious stones and pearls...and the beast that she sits upon. This is clearly Rome and the Romish church. Gee I wonder why Jesuit inspired textual criticism would challenge those passages? Hmmmm
I beg to differ. What you write is not even close!
CV wrote: "Question" Very intelligent Jesuit/German scholarship articulated impressively what you hold to. W/H agrees with you. But every place this has taken hold, God lost out. History and scripture support you, even if it only bears bad fruit.
What an ignorant rant. If you have no meaningful contribution to make, why bother posting?
Jim Lincoln wrote: Drs. Ankerberg & Weldon wrote: "What we want among translators is the best skill. In life and death situation, would you rather have your child operated on by an unbelieving surgeon conceded by everyone as the best with no fatalities or by a Christian surgeon who is only “average” and has a 20 percent failure rate? The same principle applies in translating. We want the best people because the process of objectively translating a text has no necessary relationship to personal belief..."
Scary! The oracles of God was not given to the world. It was given to the child of God so that God the Holy Spirit who wrote the book, not skill, would reveal to those who with all sincerety, tears & trembling sought to know only what God was saying. That's the regulative principle - which IS all over the bible. Silly to argue that porcelein toilets are not in the bible, therefore...
You can go to scripture and get an under standing, and scripture will support that. But is that what God meant by it?
"Question" Very intelligent Jesuit/German scholarship articulated impressively what you hold to. W/H agrees with you. But every place this has taken hold, God lost out. History and scripture support you, even if it only bears bad fruit.
Question writes: I don't see the relevance of your question, but to amuse you I came out of the Pentecostal movement part way through my degree course and have since been denomination less. Since my post grad degree I have been studying ecclesiology and am inclined towards Baptist churches but am not yet decided.
I was a Charismatic/Pentecostal as well. I have been leaning to Baptist too because they seem to be closest in line with the Bible. I've heard Presbyterian mentioned a lot as well but I haven't looked into their doctrines yet.
W.W. Combs wrote: For the book of Revelation, Erasmus had only one manuscript (1r). Since the text of Revelation was imbedded in a commentary by Andreas of Caesarea and thus difficult for the printer to read, Erasmus had a fresh copy made. The copyist himself misread the original at places, and thus a number of errors were introduced into Erasmus’ printed text.52 For example, in Revelation 17:4 Codex 1r and all other Greek manuscripts have the word ajkavqarta (“impure”), but Erasmus’ text reads ajkaqavrthto", a word unknown in Greek literature. In a similar fashion, the words kai; parevstai (“and is to come”) in 17:8 were misread as kaivper e[stin (“and yet is”).53 These and other errors produced by the scribe who made the copy of Revelation for the printer are still to be found in modern editions of the TR, such as the widely used version published by the Trinitarian Bible Society.
John UK wrote: I would very much appreciate to know your church affiliation. I know you not, and it would help to know exactly what you are. For all I know you may be a Jehovah's Witness.
That's a diversionary question. BTW, the LDS Church Bible is the KJV, for those who believe Bible versions are reliable signs of heterodoxy.
I don't see the relevance of your question, but to amuse you I came out of the Pentecostal movement part way through my degree course and have since been denomination less. Since my post grad degree I have been studying ecclesiology and am inclined towards Baptist churches but am not yet decided.
John UK wrote: I don't think I've ever seen a snow blower, but I can imagine them being a blessing. Our councils can't afford blowers because of poverty, and last year we even ran out of road salt and our local roads got impassable. I put it down to importing Japanese motorcycles, cars and other vehicles. All our money went over to the Far East.
John We are blessed with a 2 Stage Snow Blower (not as big as the one in the video clip) I have neighbors on either side of me who have single stage blowers which works lots better in shallow snow. I hope you like the video clip from YouTube.
Now people in Norway along with having the Bible a best seller probably have blowers and plows too.
Sorry to hear your community is scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to snow.
Michael Hranek wrote: Brother John Snow Blowers are a blessing
I don't think I've ever seen a snow blower, but I can imagine them being a blessing. Our councils can't afford blowers because of poverty, and last year we even ran out of road salt and our local roads got impassable.
I put it down to importing Japanese motorcycles, cars and other vehicles. All our money went over to the Far East.
John UK wrote: My dear brother, I am sorry you are having so much snow. But great to hear from you! Now we have the regulative principle, the normative principle, and the Quakers, who do whatever they think is okay. I am still not sure which one is correct, but the Quaker Principle is the easiest to implement, and it can be changed in a jiffy.
Brother John Snow Blowers are a blessing
Sometimes I think we have to put on the back burner the theological systems of men and return to our unimaginably immeasurably wonderful Savior the Lord Jesus Christ and let (? might not be the best choice of a word here - have might be better) and have Him make us well in all the will of God.
Michael Hranek wrote: John UK Good snowy morning my brother across the Atlantic in Wales. Just wanted to post and say we really have to watch out for that "Regulative Principle" because once we begin down the road of "Psalms Only and other things" there are certain things the Bible is SILENT on.
My dear brother, I am sorry you are having so much snow.
But great to hear from you!
Now we have the regulative principle, the normative principle, and the Quakers, who do whatever they think is okay.
I am still not sure which one is correct, but the Quaker Principle is the easiest to implement, and it can be changed in a jiffy.
John UK wrote: 1. The regulative principle means that you only do what the Bible commands, and if the Bible does not command it, you do not do it.
John UK Good snowy morning my brother across the Atlantic in Wales.
Just wanted to post and say we really have to watch out for that "Regulative Principle" because once we begin down the road of "Psalms Only and other things" there are certain things the Bible is SILENT on.
So courtesy of Dr. Robert Morey author of Islamic Invasion, who humorously reduces the RP to if you have it in church you need to be able to put a tag on what you have and do listing appropriate chapter and verse, so the Can't Have its not in the Bible list might include:
pews - show me a verse Sunday School - where is it Electric Lights - not mentioned is it Computers - Central Heat - the early church didn't have it BUT something a church in let's say NORWAY would be thankful to have Indoor Pumping - Bathrooms (Water Closets) - Oops its not there even in the ESV!
Question wrote: 1. What does the regulative principle have to do with determining the correct bible text? 2. You again demonstrate your ignorance of the issues. There are numerous reasons why there are more Byzantine type mss than others, but how does this prove that they are closer to the autographs than the others?
I would very much appreciate to know your church affiliation. I know you not, and it would help to know exactly what you are. For all I know you may be a Jehovah's Witness.
Thank you.
1. The regulative principle means that you only do what the Bible commands, and if the Bible does not command it, you do not do it. For the ordinary man in the street, this means that he does not spend/waste his time on textual criticism. You will notice that in the gospels, you do not find Jesus Christ saying anything destructive about the word of God, but only about obeying it. This was because God had preserved his word intact through meticulous Jewish scribing.
2. I ask about the Alexandrian text types, and you reply and argue against the Byzantine. I will not be drawn away by such subterfuge. Answer the question, please.
2b. The NASB was translated from Nestle 26th edition. Where did that come from?
What does the regulative principle have to do with determining the correct bible text?
You again demonstrate your ignorance of the issues. There are numerous reasons why there are more Byzantine type mss than others, but how does this prove that they are closer to the autographs than the others?
Question wrote: 1. Yes John I have studied the said document more than once and am fully conversant with the problems both textual and translational. 2. Your second point shows profound ignorance of the textual problems. I suggest that you have read so much from the TBS that your judgement is clouded. Textual criticism has a long history: long before Messrs Westcott and Hort came on the scene! And whilst most modern conservative evangelicals who hold to the eclectic text reject higher criticism they do nevertheless see the Alexandrian and Western text types supported by quotes from the early church fathers whereas there is no unambiguous support for the Byzantine text type before the middle of the fourth century.
1. Excellent!
2. Is it possible that there is a verse of scripture which commands ordinary, everyday Christian folks to engage in textual criticism? If not, then ignorance of such is biblical. But then, maybe you do not accept the regulative principle.
3. Now you seem to know something about this. How about if you tell the world which mss were used in translating the NASB? And how many extant mss agree with them?
Yes John I have studied the said document more than once and am fully conversant with the problems both textual and translational.
Your second point shows profound ignorance of the textual problems. I suggest that you have read so much from the TBS that your judgement is clouded. Textual criticism has a long history: long before Messrs Westcott and Hort came on the scene! And whilst most modern conservative evangelicals who hold to the eclectic text reject higher criticism they do nevertheless see the Alexandrian and Western text types supported by quotes from the early church fathers whereas there is no unambiguous support for the Byzantine text type before the middle of the fourth century.
Question wrote: 1, But that is not the point is it? You want the inerrant word of God and yet the KJV translators themselves are saying that there are variant readings in the texts that they handled (as limited as they were) which throws doubt on the correct text!! 2. If the doctrine is not affected arguments holds for you, why not for other modern translations like the NASB that Frank uses?
1. If you read through the TTTR document, it will assist you in understanding the problems faced by Bible translation. They are enormous, and I am grateful that the KJV translators wrote about these problems. They were upfront about them, unlike the modern "scholars" who make simple broad statements which they hope everyone will accept without question. Did you know, for instance, that there are animals mentioned in the OT which even (consulted) Hebrew speakers could not identify.
2. The NASB was translated from a different text. Do you know how many greek texts agree with the one which was used? Suppose a man came to you with two new greek texts, found within the Catholic system, and they differed from each other. But he said that he was going to make a new Bible from them. Eh?
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Dr. Steven J. Lawson | 6/6/2010
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