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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  9/16/2014
SUNDAY, DEC 2, 2012  |  171 comments  |  1 commentary
Rick Warren Uncertain if Homosexual Behavior is Sinful, Says ‘Gays’ Go to Heaven
Controversy is stirring over recent comments made by Rick Warren, author of the best-selling book The Purpose-Driven Life and megachurch leader of Saddleback Church in California, who stated that homosexual behavior “might be” sinful, and that he believes homosexuals go to Heaven.

During an interview this week with the Huffington Post, Warren was asked by Marc Lamont Hill if having romantic feelings for a member of the same sex is a sin. Leading up to the question, Warren was explaining that he does not hate homosexuals, and that people should disagree politely on the subject of homosexuality.

“I have many, many gay friends, and have worked around the world with them in gay organizations to try to stop AIDS,” he said. “We’re doing ‘World AIDS Day’ this weekend at Saddleback Church. My wife and I have given millions of dollars to help people with HIV/AIDS and have worked with gay organizations on ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 171 user comment(s)
News Item12/12/12 6:36 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Frank wrote:
Nothing serious. I am an insulin dependent diabetic, so I have relatively frequent visits, but nothing abnormal so to speak. Thanks for asking fellow Pilgrim.
Good on yer, Pilgrim. It's just another trial en route to the celestial city.
171

News Item12/11/12 7:58 PM
get better  Find all comments by get better
The ‘disciple of Nero’: UK bishop castigates David Cameron over gay ‘marriage’ plans

by Hilary White
Mon Dec 10, 2012 17:10 EST

LONDON, December 10, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) – In a two-page letter to Prime Minister David Cameron, Joseph Devine, the Catholic bishop of Motherwell in Scotland, has compared Cameron to Nero, the Roman emperor who persecuted Christians, for his determination to bring forward “gay marriage.”

Cameron and his government are “devoid of moral competence,” wrote Bishop Devine, adding that that no one believes their promises that the churches will be immune from legal action by homosexualist activists if gay “marriage” is legalized.

170

News Item12/11/12 7:41 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
John UK wrote:
Nothing serious I hope?
I'm glad someone agrees with me about Jude 1. I'd never noticed that before, and it was a most wonderful thing to behold.
Nothing serious. I am an insulin dependent diabetic, so I have relatively frequent visits, but nothing abnormal so to speak. Thanks for asking fellow Pilgrim.
169

News Item12/11/12 5:21 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Frank wrote:
Thanks brother, your comment was a blessing to me as usual. I agree with literally everything you wrote without exception or nuance. As an aside, you were right about Jude 1. There is nothing wrong with checking with Calvin as long as Calvin isn't our final source. WE AGREE.
Off to see the doctor. Until later "Pilgrim".
Nothing serious I hope?

I'm glad someone agrees with me about Jude 1. I'd never noticed that before, and it was a most wonderful thing to behold.

168

News Item12/11/12 2:25 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
John UK wrote:
Quite so, brother. And I will stand with you on that.
It seems to me that the Roman Catholic Church, with whom we are at war, are gleefully prancing around the camp fire, rejoicing in having a few "evangelicals" stand with them on several of these "declarations" which, after all, are but pieces of paper with words written on them.
However, what they don't understand is that true evangelicals will NEVER stand with them on ANYTHING!! The RCC is a BIG ENEMY - always has been, always will be.
The most important thing in all the world - justification before God - can ONLY be by FAITH ALONE IN JESUS CHRIST ALONE. All other beliefs are works-salvation which lead men to hell, NEVER to come out again.
While nominal protestants and others will end up joining with other apostates and heretics, the true people of God will still be standing when the Lord returns.
Thanks brother, your comment was a blessing to me as usual. I agree with literally everything you wrote without exception or nuance. As an aside, you were right about Jude 1. There is nothing wrong with checking with Calvin as long as Calvin isn't our final source. WE AGREE.

Off to see the doctor. Until later "Pilgrim".

167

News Item12/11/12 1:56 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Frank wrote:
...In my way of thinking, I do seperate from men who signed the Manhatten Declaration and who have not repented of it. To me that document was heretical and severely watered down the gospel of our Lord and Savior, so any leader who signed it and didn't repent of it, is guilty of giving credence to a false gospel which is of course heresy.
Quite so, brother. And I will stand with you on that.

It seems to me that the Roman Catholic Church, with whom we are at war, are gleefully prancing around the camp fire, rejoicing in having a few "evangelicals" stand with them on several of these "declarations" which, after all, are but pieces of paper with words written on them.

However, what they don't understand is that true evangelicals will NEVER stand with them on ANYTHING!! The RCC is a BIG ENEMY - always has been, always will be.

The most important thing in all the world - justification before God - can ONLY be by FAITH ALONE IN JESUS CHRIST ALONE. All other beliefs are works-salvation which lead men to hell, NEVER to come out again.

While nominal protestants and others will end up joining with other apostates and heretics, the true people of God will still be standing when the Lord returns.

166

News Item12/11/12 11:45 AM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
2of wrote:
I suppose there are many ways in which we will disagree with current commentators like Grudem and for example J.I.Packer over controversial subjects. But please don't reject them out of hand over one topic. If anything they at least challenge us.
What a kind and thoughtful response. Since you noted Packer, then I am sure you are aware of the controversies surrounding both men and others. In my way of thinking, I do seperate from men who signed the Manhatten Declaration and who have not repented of it. To me that document was heretical and severely watered down the gospel of our Lord and Savior, so any leader who signed it and didn't repent of it, is guilty of giving credence to a false gospel which is of course heresy. At a minimum that would confuse their followers in some fashion and be displeasing to our Lord. I don't conclude they are not saved, but I seperate from them in the only manner available to me and that is to ignore what they say or write. I try to tell them that in writing, but they of course ignore my comments.

Disagreement is one thing, but acknowledging false gospels is another? But, your point has merit and is well taken. Thanks.

165

News Item12/11/12 10:18 AM
2of  Find all comments by 2of
Frank wrote:
I agree with the above; however it is troubling that Wayne Grudem who signed the Manhatten declaration agrees with me. He must have gotten it from a creed.
I suppose there are many ways in which we will disagree with current commentators like Grudem and for example J.I.Packer over controversial subjects. But please don't reject them out of hand over one topic. I have found Gruden and indeed Packer to be a good source of many current questions as well as theological ones. If anything they at least challenge us.
164

News Item12/11/12 5:23 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Er... hem wrote:
1. Tut tut!!
2. Looking for support from the commentaries? I thought that the Holy Spirit had spoken to you John. So why the looking for support?
3. And of all peeps you turn to Frenchy!! How desperate
1.
2. If I believed the Spirit had taught me something, and no theologian on earth taught the same, I should rethink, don't you think?
3. And what exactly is wrong with studying Mr Calvin? Do you not believe he is one of the best theologians this world has ever seen?
4. It was for your benefit that I looked him up anyway. But if you're not a Calvinist, you must be an Arminist, so no wonder your theology and Bible interpretation is incorrect.
5. However, if you believe you are correct, can you link me to one of your theologians who says the same?
163

News Item12/10/12 6:39 PM
Er... hem  Find all comments by Er... hem
John UK wrote:
Chime away Christopher, your posts are always interesting and thoughtful. After looking at Calvin's Commentary this morning, it sure looks like he agrees with me that "preserved in Christ Jesus" is not referring to doctrinal stability.
Tut tut!!

Looking for support from the commentaries? I thought that the Holy Spirit had spoken to you John. So why the looking for support?

And of all peeps you turn to Frenchy!! How desperate

162

News Item12/10/12 5:57 PM
Not his fault  Find all comments by Not his fault
"Heterosexuals will be quick to blame the [Supreme Court of the United States] same-sex marriage victory on the alliance between homosexual activists, liberal politicians, and the media but the actual battle was lost long ago.

"It was actually lost the moment American heterosexuals succeeded in formally disconnecting sex from marriage. The idea that anyone would be able to limit the sexual revolution to heterosexual adultery and fornication was like saying, “Don’t worry, we’re only going to let one or two evils out of Pandora’s box.”"

Andy Webb is a Teaching Elder in the Presbyterian Church America and serves as Pastor of Providence Presbyterian Church in Fayetteville, NC

Only gonna allow the formal cause of the sexual revolution in our churches. Not gonna allow the effect.

161

News Item12/10/12 5:52 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Rick Warren said his friend Barak Hussein Obama would make a good president.
160

News Item12/10/12 3:39 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
2of wrote:
"Definitive sanctification, as defined by John Frame, is "a once-for-all event, simultaneous with effectual calling and regeneration, that transfers us from the sphere of sin to the sphere of God’s holiness, from the kingdom of Satan to the kingdom of God." Definitive sanctification marks us out (or separates us) as God’s chosen people – Sanctification, in this sense, refers to a decisive and radical break with the power and pleasures of sin."
"Progressive sanctification, as defined by Wayne Grudem, is "a progressive work of God and man that makes us more and more free from sin and like Christ in our actual lives." According to John Frame, "We can think of sanctification as the outworking of the new life given in regeneration." It involves the gradual, incremental and (S)piritual work of both putting to death the remains of "indwelling sin" as well as putting on the likeness of Christ." (monergism.com)
I agree with the above; however it is troubling that Wayne Grudem who signed the Manhatten declaration agrees with me. He must have gotten it from a creed.
159

News Item12/10/12 3:15 PM
2of  Find all comments by 2of
"Definitive sanctification, as defined by John Frame, is "a once-for-all event, simultaneous with effectual calling and regeneration, that transfers us from the sphere of sin to the sphere of God’s holiness, from the kingdom of Satan to the kingdom of God." Definitive sanctification marks us out (or separates us) as God’s chosen people – His treasured and covenantal possession (Acts 20:32; Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:2; 6:11). So too, definitive sanctification redeems (or frees) us from the dominion (or slavery) of sin by uniting us to Christ, particularly in His death, resurrection and ascension. Sanctification, in this sense, refers to a decisive and radical break with the power and pleasures of sin."

"Progressive sanctification, as defined by Wayne Grudem, is "a progressive work of God and man that makes us more and more free from sin and like Christ in our actual lives." According to John Frame, "We can think of sanctification as the outworking of the new life given in regeneration." It involves the gradual, incremental and (S)piritual work of both putting to death the remains of "indwelling sin" as well as putting on the likeness of Christ." (monergism.com)

158

News Item12/10/12 3:04 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
The primary meaning of sanctification is be set apart, but one of the purposes of being set apart is that we should live holy and blameless lives which includes doctrinal purity; being conformed into the image of His son, Ro. 8:29 and 1 Thes. 5:23, among others. However, Jude 1 is referring to my positional sanctification; in other words, it is referring to the certainty of my calling and salvation, not my doctrinal positions. Notice the following admonition in Ephesians 4 that clearly show that although these Ephesians were in fact believers, they were being doctrinally confused and mislead. I personally have lapsed into some heretical thinking and then through the word came back to the truth. Anyone who can say they never deviate from doctrinal truth are being deceived by some creed or some dead theologians. The ones that were not gifted.

Ephesians 4:14. That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15. But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

157

News Item12/10/12 3:03 PM
always  Find all comments by always
Er... hem wrote:
And where did I say anything that suggests otherwise?
In the way which you are reading Scripture.
156

News Item12/10/12 10:17 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Christopher000 wrote:
Hey, John...sorry you're having to go through this after being so happy about your find yesterday morning. I wish I could chime in but I'm clueless...ha-ha. Oh well.
Chime away Christopher, your posts are always interesting and thoughtful. After looking at Calvin's Commentary this morning, it sure looks like he agrees with me that "preserved in Christ Jesus" is not referring to doctrinal stability.
155

News Item12/10/12 8:28 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Hey, John...sorry you're having to go through this after being so happy about your find yesterday morning. I wish I could chime in but I'm clueless...ha-ha. Oh well.
154

News Item12/10/12 6:57 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Er... hem wrote:
1. IOW one does not need a correct interpretation of the Bible to be blessed?! 2. You'd make a very good RC

3. Yeah...whatever....

1. Maybe I should show you passages in the Bible where a man was mightily blessed by the Lord Jesus Christ, and he never even knew that it was Jesus.

2. Silly comment ....... unbecoming.

3. So in your interpretation of Jude 1, you have God preserving his people from doctrinal error. But you are not willing to explain how it is that God doesn't preserve ALL his people from doctrinal error. For example, how is it that God does not tell Presbys to cease baptising unbelievers? Or to cease getting involved with the unbiblical practise of state involvement? How is it that he doesn't get his arminist believing children to believe the biblical doctrines of free and sovereign grace?

Maybe it is YOU has a lot to prove concerning Jude 1.

But then, I expect you got your interpretation from a commentary, and I got mine from God.

You ask, "How can a man be "preserved in Christ Jesus" when he doesn't even know Jesus?"

The same way he was "chosen in Christ Jesus" before he was even born.

Get liberated and be happy!

153

News Item12/10/12 5:36 AM
Er... hem  Find all comments by Er... hem
John UK wrote:
1. Me, I don't have to prove anything. Do you think scripture can be proven, or do you think it must be believed? Besides which, the main difference between you and me today, is that I have been really blessed by a text of scripture and you haven't.
IOW one does not need a correct interpretation of the Bible to be blessed?! You'd make a very good RC

John UK wrote:
2. I think it a grand thing that God preserved me alive before he called me, as he does for every other believer in the world. And I also think it grand that he has preserved me alive for so many years since he called me. Now if you want to be pedantic and play the theologian, maybe you can come up with a verse which says that, and then you can quote it and make yourself very happy. Me, I would far rather have the reality of the experience of the word of God, and see how effective it is.
p.s. I hope you don't think every Christian is "preserved" from errors continually. Even the great theologians debate issues like infant baptism.
But then, if you're a Presby, the WCF is infallible and accounted higher than scripture.
Yeah...whatever....
152
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