Obama Admin Tells Court: Hobby Lobby Must Obey HHS Mandate
The Obama administration told a federal court today that the Christian business Hobby Lobby must obey the HHS mandate that forces religious companies to pay for drugs for women that may cause abortions.
The administration‚Äôs arguments in this case are shocking. Here‚Äôs what they are saying: once someone starts a ‚Äúsecular‚ÄĚ business, he categorically loses any right to run that business in accordance with his conscience. The business owner simply leaves her First Amendment rights at home when she goes to work at the business she built. Kosher butchers around the country must be shocked to find that they now run ‚Äúsecular‚ÄĚ businesses. On this view of the world, even a seller of Bibles is ‚Äúsecular.‚ÄĚ Hobby Lobby‚Äôs affiliate, Mardel, sells Bibles and other Christian-themed material, but because it makes a profit the government has now declared it ‚Äúsecular.‚ÄĚ...
Jim Lincoln wrote: ..., but again what about the prenatal care?
For one OBAMACARE IS NOT FREE, we have been paying taxes for it since it passed even though it does not kick in until 2014, and MANY MORE TAXES start next year. Not to mention the $716 billion he took from medicare to pay for it thus depriving mainly seasoned citizens of coverage. Just because we DON'T believe it is the government's responsibility to get involved in healthcare does not mean we are against prenatal care. HEALTHCARE is NOT a legitimate government function. It is proven everywhere it is implemented long waits, little time with doctor, and higher mortality rates. We call trying the same thing and hoping for a different result insanity. You want to see how it will work, look at the deplorable care we give our veterans through veterans care. The government runs nothing efficiently. The president's main reason for Obamacare, same as for increase in welfare, more union workers for the government.
Ah, Mike of N.Y., you just see the speck of error in Obamacare, pills and abortion, something that a woman can choose or not, oh and something that 98% of fertile Catholic women choose, but you have forgotten,
BBC News wrote: Fact: Before ACA, pre-natal care wasn't normal women's care. Some 87% of insurance plans on the individual market did not offer maternity or labour and delivery as part of their coverage package.
Women have been going into debt, declaring bankruptcy, ruining their lives; all to give birth.
Again, I would have to ask, does N.Y., mandate this type of care, before Obamacare? Perhaps more women that work with Hobby Lobby will take advantage of prenatal care than they would abortion? I would think so. I really don't know what sort of health insurance Hobby Lobby had, probably quite good, but again what about the prenatal care?
Jim Lincoln wrote: ups, I have always stated that I opposed the contraceptive and abortion parts of the Obama bill, something that the GOP could have at least could have more loudly protested if they had stayed in the negotiations that of a healthcare bill that the GOP had actually originated. ---
You use the same faulty reasoning as John Yurich. He says he's opposed to the unscriptural parts of the Mass, he only participates in the Scriptural parts. You criticize him for the obvious error of his thinking. You're opposed to the evil parts of Obamacare, but happily accept the rest. In this you are blind to your own faulty reasoning. Easier to see the speck in John Y's eye, isn't it?
One of the reason there is such a large block of Independents such as myself is because of A Culture of Corruption.
Both parties need to be reformed. The Republicans need to distance themselves from the Romish Church, as can be seen in happening around the world, q.v., Pope Calls On Bishops To Revive Christian Faith (Yes, I know that title is real side splitter, but in many ways there's nothing funny about the influence of the Romish Church).
Jim Lincoln wrote: ups, I have always stated that I opposed the contraceptive and abortion parts of the Obama bill....
As previous documented the republicans worked throughout the process of the passage of Obamacare. Of the 788 amendments filed, 67 came from Democrats and 721 from Republicans. Don't confuse the fact that no republicans voted for the measures as they didn't try to work on the bill. Sorry, don't have any faith in anything Bill Moyer says, so your Ralph Reed quote is meaningless. The heritage foundation has numerous times said they were wrong to support individual mandate and what they supported and what is in Obamacare are two different things. You seem bent on finding fault with the republicans, nobody gonna say they are perfect, but they sure beat the alternative agenda put out by the democrats. Maybe if you stop making Huffington Post your primary news source it would help. We will probably have to respectfully disagree. But when people are not being able to see doctors, when they have to waits months for procedures that used to take days, when seniors are denied coverage and told to "take a pain pill", when r&d funds dry up and no new medications are being made, sadly you will see that I am correct.
Matthew 19 12 "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it."---NASB
I remember that was a convicted sexual pervert in Texas, who wanted to be castrated, but the great state of Texas wouldn't allow him to do it! I suppose because the Romish church had to great of influence in Texas.
ups, I have always stated that I opposed the contraceptive and abortion parts of the Obama bill, something that the GOP could have at least could have more loudly protested if they had stayed in the negotiations that of a healthcare bill that the GOP had actually originated, q.v., Republican Origins of Democratic Health Care Provision. I use various articles from sources which I thoroughly approve of to those which only the article itself may be the only thing I approve of. You seem to approve of the GOP, which helped in ...The Resurrection of Ralph Reed. I should ignore everything the GOP says? Perhaps not a bad idea?
Mike of N.Y., if you're paying attention to this thread, just how dependent are poor Catholics on the Catholic healthcare system? I agree with the Romish church on abortion and birth control, (though of course Catholic women don't on the latter issue) but definitely not on voluntary sterilization. So, is the Romish Church, in effect paying people to stay in the Romish church for financial rather than true belief?
Oh, John Y., you can answer that question as well.
Friday Nov 16, 2012 18:43 EST UN report: Religious objections to contraception and abortifacients violate human rights
"The world body [UN] declares it will support those who combat views that make contraception, including aboriton-including drugs, unacceptable. ‚ÄúUNFPA commits in particular to‚Ä¶supporting both men and women to transform gender attitudes and cultural barriers that impede access to and use of family planning,‚ÄĚ it states.
"Many believe the declaration of such ‚Äúbirth control‚ÄĚ measures is intended to pave the way for a global approval of abortion-on-demand.
‚ÄúWhat is to stop the UNFPA from declaring that abortion is a ‚Äėbasic human right‚Äô?‚ÄĚ Brian Clowes of Human Life International asked in a statement e-mailed to LifeSiteNews.com.
"The UNFPA report states, ‚ÄúThe right to family planning is also a gateway to the achievement of other rights.‚ÄĚ"
Jim Lincoln wrote: Oh, the bureaucracy are picked to carry out the orders of elected officials you know,....
Jim still has not explained why he quotes the liberally corrupt AARP as a source, however, the HHS mandate is indeed part of the Obamacare law. (you know the one that Pelosi said we won't know what is in it until we pass it) But to say that a company should obey its edicts based upon I Peter 2 (really now Peter was martyred for disobeying the law of the land) ignores Acts 5 where apostles said they ought to obey God rather than man. God's Word says you shall not kill, so Hobby Lobby is justified in taking a stand against dispensing the day after abortion pill whether or not they are a Christian company.
Let's see Mike of N.Y., their are a whole bunch of Commissions, e.g., Federal Communications Commission who are there to see that broadcasters play by the rules, the rules set up by elected officials. Now we may not like some of the rules, and I did say "we," because no doubt there are plenty of rules I don't like either, but hey that's the way the cookie crumbles. However, I don't care for the way some things operate.
Jim Lincoln wrote: Mike, at least I have the benefit of not being part of --- Oh, the bureaucracy are picked to carry out the orders of elected officials you know, 1 Peter 2 13 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, 14 or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right. 15 For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.---NASB ---
Your personal understanding of how you think the country is supposed to operate is noted, as well as your continued justification of corruption.
No, Bureaucracies are not to make their own laws. HHS mandate is not a legislative act.
Proverbs 17:15-NASB "He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to the Lord"
Obamacare cuts $716 billion from Medicare in order to pay for its $1.9 trillion expansion of coverage to low-income Americans. It‚Äôs one of the reasons why seniors are more opposed to the new health law than any other age group. So why is it that the group that purports to speak for seniors, the AARP, so strongly supports a law that most seniors oppose? According to an explosive new report from Sen. Jim DeMint (R., S.C.), it‚Äôs because those very same Medicare cuts will give the AARP a windfall of $1 billion in insurance profits, and preserve another $1.8 billion that AARP already generates from its business interests. (Forbes website) see also
Oh, the bureaucracy are picked to carry out the orders of elected officials you know,
1 Peter 2 13 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, 14 or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right. 15 For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.---NASB
Jim Lincoln wrote: 1) Yes, Hobby Lobby is a secular company. 2) I would suppose a company that is run by the Ku Klux Klan can discriminate in hiring because of their beliefs? ---
1) What is a secular company? Not that it is relevant to government telling a company it must obey a non-elected bureaucracy's order to pay for contraceptions or abortion-inducing meds. You just can't stay on track, can you, Jim?
2) Not relevant to HHS mandate. Your support of corruption seems boundless, and you're not even a Republican.
As a Christian business owner, your government is requiring you and your church to financially subsidze ripping the umbilical out of millions of unborn children every year. And you and your church's non-response is: "What if some unsavory person were running a company and wanted certain rights to ...
Cardinal Dolan: Catholic Church will ‚Äėnot obey‚Äô immoral HHS mandate
‚ÄúNo door is closed except the door to capitulation," said Cardinal Dola
By the way, look at my comment that starts with BTW on the Pope Calls On Bishops To Revive Christian Faith (If you can stop laughing long enough to get past the title of the thread, there is some interesting information in the comments section!)