By the opening years of the seventeenth century, the Reformation had turned European Christianity into a conglomeration of conflicting sects. The Roman Catholic Council of Trent drew a firm line between Catholics and Protestants by declaring that Roman Catholic tradition represents the final authority when it comes to interpreting the Bible.
In 1618, a war between Protestants and Catholics broke out when some Protestants tossed two Catholic ambassadors out a second-story window. Fortunately, the ambassadors survived. Unfortunately, they survived because they landed in a heap of horse manure. Historians have named this foul-smelling event the “Defenestration of Prague,” which proves once and for all that historians have no sense of humor when it comes to naming events.
The Defenestration of Prague—or, as I prefer to call it, “The Great Stinky Second-Story Window Tossing”—was how the Thirty Years’...
icamewithasword wrote: John UK & John for Jesus.... My prior comment would be better interpreted with a visual picture of my tongue planted in my cheek while typing it. John 11:43-- And when He finished saying these things, He cried out with a loud voice "Lazarus, would you like to come out?!". (or something like that)
Which, being interpreted means, "When oh when will the Free Willers understand the folly of their notions?"
John UK & John for Jesus.... My prior comment would be better interpreted with a visual picture of my tongue planted in my cheek while typing it. John 11:43-- And when He finished saying these things, He cried out with a loud voice "Lazarus, would you like to come out?!". (or something like that)
icamewithasword wrote: I think when Lazarus was on his way back to Mary and Martha's home, he was singing "I Have Decided to Follow Jesus".
Depends on which Lazarus of the New Testament you are talking about. The Lazarus in the parable about the rich man was sent to Abraham's Bosom at death because of his faith in God and was later received in heaven because of the work of salvation God performed at the cross.
I think when Lazarus was in the tomb four days, all bound up with grave cloths, and beginning to stink, he was not singing anything.
But the Lord Jesus Christ can raise such from the dead, with a simple command, such is his power. Exactly the same thing happens in the preaching of the gospel to spiritually-dead sinners. Just as Lazarus was selected for resurrection, so Jesus selects whom he will for a spiritual resurrection.
Laissez les bons temps rouler wrote: One side cries the other is 'damned'. The other accuses the first to be 'schismatic'. If neither side is damned, then one group is lying. If one side is damned, then the vast majority of Evangelicalism will not see God. If neither is right, then the battle was a tragic waste.
No, to be dead physically is to be alive with Christ because He has given us life. Not just eternal, but our spirits are born again. Physically though we must wait for the Ressurection. So our body is asleep, but not our spirit when we die. I don't believe Abraham received eternal life until the Holy Spirit was ent. He waited in a part of Hades until that time.
John for Jesus wrote: He was reckoned saved from the wrath of God which has not happened yet. He will be saved at that time from God's judgement by the righteousness of Christ which he had not received up to that time because Christ had not died and been raised. Maybe there is a better way to put it, but those who believe are saved from eternal death, but eternal life has not been realised yet until we are ressurected. If Abraham could get to heaven on his own merit then why the need of a Savior? Abraham needed to be made righteous before he could enter heaven by the righteousness of Jesus. Again, saved people didn't go to heaven. Where did Lazarus go?
Not trying to put words in your mouth, just seeking clarification. Are you saying that you believe in soul sleep until the resurrection of the just and unjust?
John for JESUS wrote: John UK...This is in response to your previous post a couple hrs ago. 1. The reason sanctification is first is because it is the work of God. 2. Faith in the truth is only an obedient act and not a work of salvation. 3. It is secondary to what does in saving us. 4. Of course, Jesus is knocking to be let in to ones life. What do you think it means?!
Thanks John. I must away to a different land. But I will answer your points first.
1. Right. God's work comes first. 2. Faith is in Christ, and we must never forget the object of faith. It is Christ who saves, not our faith. 3. His saving work comes down the channel of faith - it is the only route. 4. Listen to any sermon on the text and you will soon see that it is Christ exhorting his people to receive him again into their midst, seeing they have shut him out of the church. And that is a serious business. A sermon I would recommend on Rev 3:20 is by Peter Masters.
And I would also recommend this online book written by Ingleesi, called All of Grace
All chapters are short, and there are some good examples of what faith is.
John UK...This is in response to your previous post a couple hrs ago. The reason sanctification is first is because it is the work of God. Faith in the truth is only an obedient act and not a work of salvation. It is secondary to what does in saving us. Of course, Jesus is knocking to be let in to ones life. What do you think it means?!
But I would estimate that within christendom, of all the people who claim to have believed on Christ, only about 5% are actually understanding what that text means, and have actually believed on Christ to their salvation.
Unprofitable Servant wrote: God says Abraham was a saved man while he lived on this earth. Jesus said he communed with Abraham after Abraham had departed this life, are you saying that Jesus (who said He came down from heaven) was not in heaven? Also, (Acts 11:18) When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then HATH GOD also to the Gentiles GRANTED REPENTANCE UNTO LIFE. (see also II Timothy 2:25)
He was reckoned saved from the wrath of God which has not happened yet. He will be saved at that time from God's judgement by the righteousness of Christ which he had not received up to that time because Christ had not died and been raised. Maybe there is a better way to put it, but those who believe are saved from eternal death, but eternal life has not been realised yet until we are ressurected. If Abraham could get to heaven on his own merit then why the need of a Savior? Abraham needed to be made righteous before he could enter heaven by the righteousness of Jesus. Again, saved people didn't go to heaven. Where did Lazarus go?
Abraham rejoiced to see my day and saw it, and was glad. (John 8:56) Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed (Galatians 3:6-8) God says Abraham was a saved man while he lived on this earth. Jesus said he communed with Abraham after Abraham had departed this life, are you saying that Jesus (who said He came down from heaven) was not in heaven? Also, (Acts 11:18) When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then HATH GOD also to the Gentiles GRANTED REPENTANCE UNTO LIFE. (see also II Timothy 2:25)
John for Jesus wrote: Even Jesus says that He stands at the door and knocks. How can they hear unless someone is sent? God sent forth His words by the preaching of the gospel so that people could hear and respond in obedience. It is God who calls it the obedience of faith (Rms 5:2).
This door-knocking is NOT the Lord trying to get in to a sinner's heart. It is part of a letter to the saints.
Yes it is through the "foolishness of preaching" that God chooses to save his elect, through "sanctification of the Spirit, and belief of the truth". Please note the order: sanctification of the Spirit, then the belief of the truth.
John UK wrote: Again John, you are putting the man's salvation firmly at his own door. But the poor man is dead spiritually, deaf and blind. He is incapable of believing spiritual things, and needs the quickening power of the Spirit to bring him to life, open his stopped ears, and enable him to comprehend what is the length and breadth, depth and height, and to know the love of God which surpasses knowledge. Even the saints cannot comprehend this without God's grace and enlightenment.
Even Jesus says that He stands at the door and knocks. How can they hear unless someone is sent? God sent forth His words by the preaching of the gospel so that people could hear and respond in obedience. It is God who calls it the obedience of faith (Rms 5:2). Also, people who are living are spiritually dead, not physically dead. They can at some point understand the light of creation and the gospel message enough to either suppress it or obey it. When Peter was asked by the people on Pentecost what they must do to be saved, he says they must believe and be baptised. He didn't say there was nothing they could do to save themselves.
Jim Lincoln wrote: By the way, I hope some others have, but has anyone looked at the article? For awhile I thought it might have came from the Charisma source, which SA sometimes refers to. Now the verses really give some good material why at least 4 of the 5 petals of TULIP aren't wilted (I might just have to cut out and save that part somewhere, ) Oh, and sermons such as Calvinism and Arminianism from which this excerpt, . The article was so very wrong in not supporting the idea of We Must Stand Against False Doctrine--Avoid Unbiblical Doctrines & Practices
One side cries the other is 'damned'. The other accuses the first to be 'schismatic'. If neither side is damned, then one group is lying. If one side is damned, then the vast majority of Evangelicalism will not see God. If neither is right, then the battle was a tragic waste.
John for Jesus wrote: Good! Lol. Faith isn't a work, so God isn't obligated to save us by it. He has commanded that we obey His word and then He will freely save us by His grace, not by works lest anyone boast.
Again John, you are putting the man's salvation firmly at his own door. But the poor man is dead spiritually, deaf and blind. He is incapable of believing spiritual things, and needs the quickening power of the Spirit to bring him to life, open his stopped ears, and enable him to comprehend what is the length and breadth, depth and height, and to know the love of God which surpasses knowledge. Even the saints cannot comprehend this without God's grace and enlightenment.
By the way, I hope some others have, but has anyone looked at the article? For awhile I thought it might have came from the Charisma source, which SA sometimes refers to. Now the verses really give some good material why at least 4 of the 5 petals of TULIP aren't wilted (I might just have to cut out and save that part somewhere, ) Oh, and sermons such as Calvinism and Arminianism from which this excerpt,
Gil Rugh said or, wrote: Many people think that when you talk about a subject like Calvinism, Arminianism, you are in an area that primarily involves theologians bickering about points that don't really make a lot of sense. I think this issue is at the heart of how we live the Christian life. Your convictions here, whether you realize it or not, to a large extent determine how you face each day as a child of God.
John UK wrote: So a man can be full of faith (faithful), yet not saved unless God goes on to choose them? Phew! That's not even arminist!
Good! Lol. Faith isn't a work, so God isn't obligated to save us by it. He has commanded that we obey His word and then He will freely save us by His grace, not by works lest anyone boast.
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all Christians should want to understand the Bible as accurately as possible, 
