David Siegel, the owner of Westgate Resorts, sent a surprising email to his employees Monday. It said that if President Barack Obama wins re-election and raises Siegel's taxes, he will have to lay off workers and downsize his company - or even shut it down.
"If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, as our current President plans, I will have no choice but to reduce the size of this company," he wrote. "Rather than grow this company I will be forced to cut back. This means fewer jobs, less benefits and certainly less opportunity for everyone."
In a version of Romney's "47 percent" remarks, Siegel added that "people like me who made all the right decisions and invested in themselves are being forced to bail out all the people who didn't. The people that overspent their paychecks suddenly feel entitled to the same luxuries that I earned and sacrificed 42 years of my life for."...
Neil wrote: 1. How would you like it if you asked me my procedure for how to choose a toaster to buy, & I reply that I bought brand X & think it's great. Is that really helpful? 2. Now your explanation gives me no heartburn, except that it begs this question: WHO IS NEEDY? Are there legions of starving people in the UK or USA? Do widows & orphans go hungry nowadays, as in David Copperfield?
1. A lot of commerce works this way Neil. Word of mouth, internet reviews etc.
2. Good question, although in my last I did not mention poverty but "needy". A rich man can be needy if his health is poor. A middle-class man can be needy if he is being mugged on the street. The poor can be needy if falsely accused of a crime. Anyone can be needy if suffering a breakdown. The parable of the samaritan must extend to a great number of circumstances.
If we are to fulfil the "law of Christ" and "bear one another's burdens", we first must need to know one another, and share our dilemmas and trials. I realise this is not happening in most churches, which is why the subject needs to be aired in the hope that we will think more seriously about our Lord's desires for his body.
John UK wrote: Both are beneficial, Phoebe. John said: Matthew 3:11 KJV 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
John UK wrote: This was your question Neil, and it was you that made it personal, when you said "your procedure". Okay, I will try to answer the question without being specific. The problem with that is, that you will probably argue that a generalisation is of no help. Which is why I thought an anecdote would actually be of assistance in answering your question.
How would you like it if you asked me my procedure for how to choose a toaster to buy, & I reply that I bought brand X & think it's great, & how dare you "personalize" things by even asking the question?
Now your explanation gives me no heartburn, except that it begs this question: WHO IS NEEDY? Are there legions of starving people in the UK or USA? Who goes hungry nowadays, as in David Copperfield?
It's easy for a widow to tithe a lot more than 1/64 day's wages when she gets a gov't benefit check every week or month. So glib references to the Bible, written in ancient times, are not enough to help me apply its teachings to the modern situation, unless I moved to E. Africa or some such place.
Phoebe wrote: John UK - Fire or Water? Shall I chose for you?
Both are beneficial, Phoebe.
John said:
Matthew 3:11 KJV 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Neil wrote: ...then what is your procedure, please, since you've told us you're a man of the streets, presumably wise in such things?
This was your question Neil, and it was you that made it personal, when you said "your procedure".
Okay, I will try to answer the question without being specific. The problem with that is, that you will probably argue that a generalisation is of no help. Which is why I thought an anecdote would actually be of assistance in answering your question. But that was to no avail, so I will have to now try something else.
"Love thy neighbour". Agreed!
Who is thy neighbour?
In the course of life, because of God's providence, we come into contact with people. These ones, arranged by God, are our neighbour.
Some of these are needy people, and some are not needy people. So we can focus on the former. Are we in a position to assist? If yes, how can we assist? Once decided on how to assist, we then assist. Not to gain brownie points with God, but because we have "the mind of Christ", and "love our neighbour" truly, not in hypocrisy.
I did a large study once in the OT concerning how God viewed "the poor", and was thrilled to know that he cares much for "the poor".
Orlus wrote: --- Everybody in your town can work out who is rich and who is poor probably from something as simple as your address. But you're still defending the wealth group so I'll have to make my own mind up.. As for Jesus words and teachings at that part of Scripture, he was an unemployed carpenter with no house of His own. That identifies His status and absolutely identified the status of the rich man. --- 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. And; 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Jesus was a skilled tradesman. What makes you think he was poor? If so, it came during his ministry.
Verses still about covetousness on the young man's part. Not being rich, but making idol of riches.
Look at our race for president. The present one does his best to create more envy among the non-rich. Is envy among the so-called working class a lesser sin than covetousness among the rich?
John UK wrote: You speak in riddles woman. Why do you never say what you mean and mean what you say? If you have a defective view of the atonement (which you have), it becomes all of us on this site to assist you and preach to you the gospel of God, which is Jesus Christ as a propitiatory and substitutionary sacrifice of atonement, where he took in his own body the wrath of God due unto sinners.
Perhaps it the fault is on your side John. Try just reading the plain words that are before you, rather than attempting to see behind the supposed veil.
Phoebe wrote: John. John. Don't you realise that your own words, as Scripture says, are witnessing against you now.
You speak in riddles woman. Why do you never say what you mean and mean what you say?
If you have a defective view of the atonement (which you have), it becomes all of us on this site to assist you and preach to you the gospel of God, which is Jesus Christ as a propitiatory and substitutionary sacrifice of atonement, where he took in his own body the wrath of God due unto sinners.
a helper wrote: Neil. A warning from the great man himself.
At first I thought you meant Jesus Christ. But instead, it's merely from Calvin, as if commentators, like Rabbis in Judaism, are authoritative. You did not even try to compare his reasoning to mine on the passage.
John UK, you gave AN answer which was merely a pious anecdote. Was I supposed to learn from that?
John UK wrote: Good evening Phoebe No I don't speak Maori, nor have I ever been to the South Pacific, much as I would love to. But I was merely trying to obey the following scriptures.... 1 Corinthians 9:20-22 KJV 20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. Sure, I have failed. But surely it is better to have tried and failed than never to have tried at all? I went to all the trouble of looking up Maori dictionaries, and tried to evaluate what you were saying. Ah well.
John. John. Don't you realise that your own words, as Scripture says, are witnessing against you now.
I can only warn you stop. It is your choice whether you take that advice or not. You are elected to receive that choice today. What will you chose? Fire or Water?
Phoebe wrote: @John - He reo Māori tōu? John - where did you get the macron? What mind game where you planning on playing with that? What mind-games do you have in store for visitors to this site today?
Good evening Phoebe
No I don't speak Maori, nor have I ever been to the South Pacific, much as I would love to. But I was merely trying to obey the following scriptures....
1 Corinthians 9:20-22 KJV 20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
Sure, I have failed. But surely it is better to have tried and failed than never to have tried at all?
I went to all the trouble of looking up Maori dictionaries, and tried to evaluate what you were saying. Ah well.
John - where did you get the macron? What mind game where you planning on playing with that? What mind-games do you have in store for visitors to this site today?
"A rich man will with difficulty enter. Christ warns them, not only how dangerous and how deadly a plague avarice is, but also how great an obstacle is presented by riches. In Mark, indeed, he mitigates the harshness of his expression, by restricting it to those only who place confidence in riches. But these words are, I think, intended to confirm, rather than correct, the former statement, as if he had affirmed that they ought not to think it strange, that he made the entrance into the kingdom of heaven so difficult for the rich, because it is an evil almost common to all to trust in their riches. Yet this doctrine is highly useful to all; to the rich, that, being warned of their danger, they may be on their guard; to the poor, that, satisfied with their lot, they may not so eagerly desire what would bring more damage than gain. It is true indeed, that riches do not, in their own nature, hinder us from following God; but, in consequence of the depravity of the human mind, it is scarcely possible for those who have a great abundance to avoid being intoxicated by them." (John Calvin)
Neil wrote: 1) So you accused me of having problems w/ obedience, but you're not charging me w/ anything. Right! But I'll let it pass. 2) I never implied we can't obey the Bible, however imperfectly. That's a strawman. 3*) I wasn't asking for an anecdote. You know, I wouldn't DARE talk up a charitable act of mine before men; almsgiving is Biblically supposed to be private, so that God might reward us openly. And "in my wisdom" is not a useful procedure anyway.
1. Neil, you openly admitted having a problem with obedience. For one thing, you can't even evaluate WHO the poor are.
2. That's okay then. So you CAN evaluate who the poor are in need of help.
3. You asked the question, I gave you the answer. If you've done me out of my reward, on your own head be it.
Plus, it was you used the expression "in your wisdom". Are you now saying that it was a cynical comment. Neil, I am surprised at you.
John UK wrote: 1. No charge intended nor made; you must have made that up. 2. Oh dear. What then? We cannot obey the Bible in case we make mistakes, being fallible and all. 3a. No, of course not. The welfare state does, and makes a right mess of it. 3b. In my wisdom, I went out fishing for bass twice last week. I hoped to get a fish big enough for a local (unsaved) family who are living on scraps, one for my Bible teacher who I cannot support with cash as I have very little, and the third (if I was lucky) for myself.
Morena. Here again laying traps for others - you deceitful, deceitful men.
John UK wrote: 2. Oh dear. What then? We cannot obey the Bible in case we make mistakes, being fallible and all. 3a. No, of course not. The welfare state does, and makes a right mess of it. 3b. In my wisdom, I went out fishing for bass twice last week...
1) So you accused me of having problems w/ obedience, but you're not charging me w/ anything. Right! But I'll let it pass.
2) I never implied we can't obey the Bible, however imperfectly. That's a strawman.
3*) I wasn't asking for an anecdote. You know, I wouldn't DARE talk up a charitable act of mine before men; almsgiving is Biblically supposed to be private, so that God might reward us openly. And "in my wisdom" is not a useful procedure anyway.
Neil wrote: 1. No, for I just admitted that one could with subjective (imperfect) personal experience evaluate a poverty case satisfactorily. And if Paul & James said they knew about poor people, I believe them because they are Apostles. How readily you charge people with disobedience! 2. But I do have a problem with unsubstantiated, extrabiblical modern generalizations such as you seem to endorse. They aren't infallible Scripture! 3. Do you believe everyone who claims they are poor, esp. in welfare states such as we live in? Or if not, then what is your procedure, please, since you've told us you're a man of the streets, presumably wise in such things?
1. No charge intended nor made; you must have made that up.
2. Oh dear. What then? We cannot obey the Bible in case we make mistakes, being fallible and all.
3a. No, of course not. The welfare state does, and makes a right mess of it.
3b. In my wisdom, I went out fishing for bass twice last week. I hoped to get a fish big enough for a local (unsaved) family who are living on scraps, one for my Bible teacher who I cannot support with cash as I have very little, and the third (if I was lucky) for myself.
Orlus wrote: Thats a cop out! Everybody in your town can work out who is rich and who is poor probably from something as simple as your address.
So should we judge by appearances, contrary to Scipture? Or do you have some occult power of knowing people's private finances? And sure I defend the wealthy, or anyone else, against unsubstantiated charges of sin. Neither the rich nor the poor should be unduly favored in judgement; that's Scripture too!
So have YOU sold everything you have, so that you might have treasure in Heaven?
Neil wrote: That's none of your business, since it's logically irrelevant, but I'll indulge you anyway since it suggests a good question: I don't know, since rich is a highly relative term. I have no idea what you mean by it. Am I rich in the sense Jesus intended
Thats a cop out! Everybody in your town can work out who is rich and who is poor probably from something as simple as your address. But you're still defending the wealth group so I'll have to make my own mind up there. As for Jesus words and teachings at that part of Scripture, he was an unemployed carpenter with no house of His own. That identifies His status and absolutely identified the status of the rich man. All it takes is to look at the local community with your eyes open.
Remember Jesus' warning Neil. 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. And; 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
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rev sun myong moon
'when he [moon] was around 10 years..."
