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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA News
FRONT PAGE  |  5/26/2015
Choice News WEDNESDAY, SEP 5, 2012  |  40 comments
Same-sex marriage support will make history at DNC
The Democratic Party will make history Tuesday when it is expected to be the first major party to endorse same-sex marriage in its platform.

While the plank packs no legal power, it marks a cultural milestone.

"Another important societal cue that things are shifting," said Amy Simon, an Oakland pollster who is working for advocates who want to legalize gay marriage in Maine and Washington. "As people are working through their conflicting feelings on this, they're looking for cues and this is another one." ...


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
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· Page 1 ·  Found: 40 user comment(s)
News Item9/10/12 2:48 PM
Hugson  Find all comments by Hugson
Mike wrote:
Not trying to change the topic. I agree that the lost cannot bear Christian fruit, Frank. Perhaps we're talking around one another? Unless I missed it the term "Christian fruit" didn't appear until the last post. What I'm talking about is whether the good that an unbeliever might do can contain any fruit that has spiritual benefit, though it may not benefit him spiritually(unless it is a step moved in him by the Holy Spirit, ultimately drawing him to the Lord.) I say yes the fruit of saving lives contains positive spiritual benefit regardless of who is doing the preserving. If it were not so, the killing of the unborn could not be said to have negative spiritual content. Do you know of any Christians who do not think abortion is an evil in the spiritual realm as well as the physical?
Mike
May I ask a question. What is a quote, "spiritual benefit"?

BTW In reponse to your question, "Do you know of any Christians who do not think abortion is an evil in the spiritual realm as well as the physical?"

Death is a sin and causing premature death, ie murder, is obviously a sin too. Therefore on both sides of the divide abortion is sin.

40

News Item9/10/12 2:04 PM
Frank | Clearwater, FL  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Mike wrote:
Not trying to change the topic. I agree that the lost cannot bear Christian fruit, Frank. Perhaps we're talking around one another? Unless I missed it the term "Christian fruit" didn't appear until the last post. What I'm talking about is whether the good that an unbeliever might do can contain any fruit that has spiritual benefit, though it may not benefit him spiritually(unless it is a step moved in him by the Holy Spirit, ultimately drawing him to the Lord.) I say yes the fruit of saving lives contains positive spiritual benefit regardless of who is doing the preserving. If it were not so, the killing of the unborn could not be said to have negative spiritual content. Do you know of any Christians who do not think abortion is an evil in the spiritual realm as well as the physical?
Mike, sorry about the late response. Are you referring to the concept of "common grace"? In other words, the goodness that God allows mankind to do so that societies and cultures can funtion to some degree. This definition was not well thought out, but I'm sure you are familiar with the concept of common grace.
39

News Item9/10/12 8:46 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Frank wrote:
You are adding to what I said.
The discussion was whether Romney could produce "Christian fruit". Why would you do that?
If the lost obeyed Christ, it would be a better world, but that wouldn't make them Christian and it wouldn't result in their works becoming Christian fruit.
Now, if you want to change topics, please say so and I will oblige.
Not trying to change the topic. I agree that the lost cannot bear Christian fruit, Frank. Perhaps we're talking around one another? Unless I missed it the term "Christian fruit" didn't appear until the last post. What I'm talking about is whether the good that an unbeliever might do can contain any fruit that has spiritual benefit, though it may not benefit him spiritually(unless it is a step moved in him by the Holy Spirit, ultimately drawing him to the Lord.) I say yes the fruit of saving lives contains positive spiritual benefit regardless of who is doing the preserving. If it were not so, the killing of the unborn could not be said to have negative spiritual content. Do you know of any Christians who do not think abortion is an evil in the spiritual realm as well as the physical?
38

News Item9/9/12 5:25 PM
Frank | Clearwater, FL  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Mike wrote:
Interesting that the real world outcome doesn't matter. Or is it that when we speak of fruit, we don't connect it with anything that can be seen, fruit being spiritual, you see. So when an unborn is killed, it must be that it doesn't have any spiritual content, for Roe v Wade was not put into effect by Christians. And if a fruitless politician fought against abortion, and succeeded, the result of saving the unborn would also not have any spiritual content, for he doesn't fit the proper definition of fruit-bearer? This is pitiful. No wonder we lose our way.
You are adding to what I said.
The discussion was whether Romney could produce "Christian fruit". Why would you do that?

If the lost obeyed Christ, it would be a better world, but that wouldn't make them Christian and it wouldn't result in their works becoming Christian fruit.

Now, if you want to change topics, please say so and I will oblige.

37

News Item9/9/12 4:43 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Frank wrote:
If someone is in the vine and they are against abortion and homosexuality, then that "could" be Christian fruit. If Romney or Ryan is against them, then that "can't be bearing fruit.
---
Interesting that the real world outcome doesn't matter. Or is it that when we speak of fruit, we don't connect it with anything that can be seen, fruit being spiritual, you see. So when an unborn is killed, it must be that it doesn't have any spiritual content, for Roe v Wade was not put into effect by Christians. And if a fruitless politician fought against abortion, and succeeded, the result of saving the unborn would also not have any spiritual content, for he doesn't fit the proper definition of fruit-bearer? This is pitiful. No wonder we lose our way.
36

News Item9/9/12 1:53 PM
Frank | Clearwater, FL  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
John Yurich USA wrote:
Frank. Answer a simple yes or no question will you? Is being against abortion and homosexuality biblical? The answer is an unquestionable yes. So logically if being against abortion and homosexuality is biblical then how can being against abortion and homosexuality be a bad fruit? Logic dictates that being against abortion and homosexuality is a good fruit.
If someone is in the vine and they are against abortion and homosexuality, then that "could" be Christian fruit. If Romney or Ryan is against them, then that "can't be bearing fruit. Look at it this way and it will be clear. Muslims are against abortion and homosexuality. Are they bearing fruit?

Now you would say Ryan is in the faith because he believes in the trinity. I have already refuted that on a previous post; so simply compare Romney to the Muslim and your question is answered. Let's make Romney the sole issue.

My recommendation is you read the scriptures I have sent you and simply ponder what they mean. In order for someone to bear fruit for Christ, they have to be in Christ. Now before your mind gets distracted by that; simply think about the Muslims and their stance against abortion and homosexuality and it will clear.

35

News Item9/9/12 1:37 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
John Yurich USA wrote:
Frank. Answer a simple yes or no question will you? Is being against abortion and homosexuality biblical? The answer is an unquestionable yes. So logically if being against abortion and homosexuality is biblical then how can being against abortion and homosexuality be a bad fruit? Logic dictates that being against abortion and homosexuality is a good fruit.
Biblical "fruit" is either the deed of faith (love God, believe in the Son), which is life from the tree of life, or the deeds of the law, which is death from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It is not whatever your "logic" wants it to be; for or against this or that.

If you would stop being such a hardhead and test this explanation across the breadth of scripture for a couple years you'd learn that it meets the test of non-contradiction and upholds exactly what Jesus taught....

Matthew 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

34

News Item9/9/12 1:14 PM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Frank. Answer a simple yes or no question will you? Is being against abortion and homosexuality biblical? The answer is an unquestionable yes. So logically if being against abortion and homosexuality is biblical then how can being against abortion and homosexuality be a bad fruit? Logic dictates that being against abortion and homosexuality is a good fruit.
33

News Item9/9/12 12:40 PM
Frank | Clearwater, FL  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
John Y. I have already answered your question, but will add more below.

That is correct, Romney cannot produce good fruit. He is a Mormon and not in Christ. My opinion is meaningless; Christ said "they cannot".

Luke 6:43. For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Matthew 7:17. Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

John 15:4. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5. I am the vine, ye are the branches: ...

32

News Item9/9/12 4:39 AM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Frank wrote:
Luke 6:43. "For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit.
What is the matter with you? Why can't you answer a simple question? Yes or no? Is being against abortion and homosexuality biblical? If the answer is yes then how can being against abortion and homosexuality not be a good fruit? That goes against the laws of logic to state that being against abortion and homosexuality is a bad fruit because being against abortion and homosexuality is biblical.
31

News Item9/8/12 11:25 PM
Russ | Texas  Find all comments by Russ
You guys are splitting hairs over things that are not really important. 1. Being totally depraved doesn't mean that we can do no good, just that every part of us is sinful and depraved. Romney is still bound in his depravity, but still able to some good. 2. The good fruit that is being discussed by Christ is not just external acts, but also goes to the heart level. Is Romney opposing these things in order to gain his salvation or because he has been redeemed. I think we all know that Mormonism is works based so while his external works may appear good, like the Pharisees, yet he is still attempting to earn a right standing which we all know is not going to get him anywhere.
30

News Item9/8/12 3:25 PM
Frank | Clearwater, FL  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
John Yurich USA wrote:
I agree that because Romney is a Mormon that he is not saved. But the fact is that Romney is against abortion and homosexuality. So how can being against abortion and homosexuality not be a good fruit? Being against abortion and homosexuality is biblical. Every normal Evangelical Protestant believes that being against abortion and homosexuality is a good fruit. Only abnormal Evangelical Protestants believe that being against abortion and homosexuality is a bad fruit.
Luke 6:43. "For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit.
29

News Item9/8/12 10:35 AM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Frank wrote:
That is correct, Romney cannot produce good fruit. He is a Mormon and not in Christ. My opinion is meaningless; Christ said "they cannot".
Matthew 7:15. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17. Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
I agree that because Romney is a Mormon that he is not saved. But the fact is that Romney is against abortion and homosexuality. So how can being against abortion and homosexuality not be a good fruit? Being against abortion and homosexuality is biblical. Every normal Evangelical Protestant believes that being against abortion and homosexuality is a good fruit. Only abnormal Evangelical Protestants believe that being against abortion and homosexuality is a bad fruit.
28

News Item9/7/12 8:40 PM
Frank | Clearwater, FL  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
John Yurich USA wrote:
You don't call Romney being against abortion and homosexuality a good fruit? Those two abominations of abortion and homosexuality are what is resulting in God lifting His hand of protection slowly from the United States. Romney will put judges on the courts that are Pro Life and against homosexuality to end abortion and to put back on the books laws against homosexuality.
That is correct, Romney cannot produce good fruit. He is a Mormon and not in Christ. My opinion is meaningless; Christ said "they cannot".

Matthew 7:15. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17. Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

27

News Item9/7/12 7:27 PM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Frank wrote:
A good tree can't bear bad fruit and a bad tree can't bear good fruit. But within that framework it is certainly possible for two bad trees to bear a different amount of bad fruit and vice versa. So, if someone wanted to argue they were going to vote for one or the other, then as long as they don't say one tree is good and one bad, I can understand that. But, with certainty both Romney and Obama are bad trees and neither can bear good fruit. If I don't vote for either, then I am not guilty of supporting either one.
Total depravity 101!
You don't call Romney being against abortion and homosexuality a good fruit? Those two abominations of abortion and homosexuality are what is resulting in God lifting His hand of protection slowly from the United States. Romney will put judges on the courts that are Pro Life and against homosexuality to end abortion and to put back on the books laws against homosexuality.
26

News Item9/7/12 3:49 PM
Frank | Clearwater, FL  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Overcomer wrote:
Mitt Romney is a charlatan. He has a political past for anyone who cares to investigate. He is not, I repeat, NOT pro-life. He is not opposed to sodomy. Mitt Romney has blood on his hands.
Please brethren to do not be deceived.
http://massresistance.org/romney/
Yes, but let me add; "all" politicians are charlatans. And by all, I mean each and every one of them that hold any kind of high office. I doubt whether you and I agree on that point, but we do agree on Romney. I often refer to Obama as a wolf and Romney as a wolf in sheep's clothing.

The site you posted is very good. I only had the opportunity to glance at a couple of things, but it is interesting. Thanks!

25

News Item9/7/12 3:06 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Overcomer, I use to say that politicians have to have a backbone of a wet noodle to be good at it, If a politician wants to get elected that is true, one should read about the President Bill Clinton of the 19th century -- but who had integrity, The Gilded Age -- Grover Cleveland. It's a very short read, and not nearly long enough for us history lovers! But anyway,

Prolife Profiles wrote:
...Mitt Romney:
- created RomneyCare which is terribly similar to ObamaCare but even worse for it openly funds all abortions, on demand
- put Planned Parenthood on the so-called "independent" board he created that offers $50 co-pay abortions
- thereby instituted tax-funded abortion on demand two years after his orchestrated "pro-life" conversion...
excerpt from, Mitt Romney Mitt's main interest seems to be pushing Mormonism, and the answer is No! to, We're Christians just like you!

So, I'm glad you're paying attention to the "Dynamic Duo," of the Republican Party.

24

News Item9/7/12 2:43 PM
Overcomer | USA  Find all comments by Overcomer
Mitt Romney is a charlatan. He has a political past for anyone who cares to investigate. He is not, I repeat, NOT pro-life. He is not opposed to sodomy. Mitt Romney has blood on his hands.

Please brethren to do not be deceived.

http://massresistance.org/romney/

23

News Item9/7/12 2:23 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Quite correct, Frank. Actually Mitty was proud that abortions only cost $50 under the Romneycare plan. The main religion of these men are lining their pockets, and both may have "higher," (or lower goals if your Christian, (Roman Catholics, Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses ) especially as I see Mitty's hypocrisy to further the acceptance of Mormonism.

If one lives in one of the dyed in the Red or Blue states, I don't see any problem in making a protest vote, because it will not have any effect on the outcome, and when one actually looks at it, God determines the outcome anyway. The Believer and Politics.

But in purple states such as Florida, which seems to swing between maroon and violet One may very well weigh the idea of a protest vote, for one side or the other.

22

News Item9/7/12 11:57 AM
Frank | Clearwater, FL  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
John Yurich USA wrote:
Romeny and Ryan are against abortion and homosexuality and thus the Republican party's interpretation of the Bible is not abominable since the Romney, Ryan and the Republican party accept the biblical teaching that abortion is wrong and that homosexuality is an abomination before God. So that means that Romney would be a much better president then Obama is since Romney would do away with homosexual marriage and would start the process of outlawing abortion. Anybody who is against Romney is for Obama.
A good tree can't bear bad fruit and a bad tree can't bear good fruit. But within that framework it is certainly possible for two bad trees to bear a different amount of bad fruit and vice versa. So, if someone wanted to argue they were going to vote for one or the other, then as long as they don't say one tree is good and one bad, I can understand that. But, with certainty both Romney and Obama are bad trees and neither can bear good fruit. If I don't vote for either, then I am not guilty of supporting either one.

Total depravity 101!

21
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