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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  9/16/2014
TUESDAY, JUN 19, 2012  |  20 comments  |  2 commentaries
As Baptists Prepare to Meet, Calvinism Debate Shifts to Heresy Accusation
A statement by a non-Calvinist faction of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) has launched infighting within the nation's largest Protestant denomination, and tensions are expected to escalate Tuesday as church leaders descend on New Orleans.

While the election of the denomination's first African American president in its 167-year history will dominate the meeting's headlines, water-cooler talk is sure to be fixated on a theological dirty word that, for the past two weeks, has spiked the blood pressure of theologians as much as it has Baptist visits to Wikipedia. ...


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www.christianitytoday.com

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 20 user comment(s)
News Item6/22/12 3:16 PM
oneder  Find all comments by oneder
""We are obviously not semi-Pelagians," Patterson said. "We do believe that the entire human race is badly affected by the fall of Adam. However, we don't follow the Reformed view that man is so crippled by the fall that he has no choice.""

Like the Arminians (Semi-Pelagians) these guys underestimate sin.

Alternatively sin itself as a power (dominion) over man in his natural estate, prevails upon the sinner to prevent him perceiving all truth. This then may be the sign of an unconverted church goer!

20

News Item6/22/12 2:50 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
I'm going to have to read the article entirely through, parts like this means it might be quite good!
Christianity Today wrote:
One sliver of the document's second article particularly drew their ire. It reads, "We deny that Adam's sin resulted in the incapacitation of any person's free will."

Even though the two scholars represent opposite ends of the evangelical spectrum on salvation, both made essentially the same allegation: the wording seems, at best, theologically careless and, at worst, represents a heretical understanding of sin, human nature, and the human will.

From a site which has no use for Calvin, but espouses Calvinist ideas,
John Nelson Darby wrote:
"Arminianism, or rather Pelagianism, pretends that man can choose, and that thus the old man is ameliorated by the thing it has accepted. The first step is made without grace, and it is the first step which costs truly in this case."

"I believe we ought to hold to the Word; but, philosophically and morally speaking, [indeterminist, libertarian] free-will is a false and absurd theory. Free-will is a state of sin."

excerpt from,
John Nelson Darby

C&A

19

News Item6/22/12 12:46 PM
John for Jesus | usa  Find all comments by John for Jesus
"The statement's language displeases our Calvinist and Arminian friends not because it is heterodox, but because their terminology and categories are not employed. That's all the charge of semi-Pelagianism really means: 'You aren't following our rules. You have to pick.'"

Eric Hankins (the primary author of the SBC statement)

18

News Item6/21/12 11:12 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Jesus in my heart wrote:
NEW ORLEANS (BP) -- Messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention approved Wednesday morning June 20 at their annual meeting a resolution identifying what is frequently described as a "Sinner's Prayer" as a biblical way of expressing repentance and faith.
Since this "prayer" is not of the Bible, what even is it? When it's faith alone, how does tacking on a little undefined prayer save you?
The SBC may be going doolally, in keeping with much of christendom, but to say that the prayer, "God be merciful to me, a sinner" is not of the Bible, is a blatant error. Have you never prayed that prayer?
17

News Item6/21/12 10:55 AM
Jesus in my heart  Find all comments by Jesus in my heart
NEW ORLEANS (BP) -- Messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention approved Wednesday morning June 20 at their annual meeting a resolution identifying what is frequently described as a "Sinner's Prayer" as a biblical way of expressing repentance and faith.

Since this "prayer" is not of the Bible, what even is it? When it's faith alone, how does tacking on a little undefined prayer save you?

16

News Item6/20/12 2:50 PM
John for Jesus | usa  Find all comments by John for Jesus
Mike wrote:
John. Why is it, a person can go to church there whole life, here the Gospel, and not be conformed. And then the person they are sitting next to does, and bares fruit? If they both have a free will, should they both, not accept it ?
They reject because they don't abide in the truth and they love the darkness rather than light or they don't want to come to the light so that their evil deeds are exposed.
15

News Item6/20/12 2:43 PM
Mike | Florida  Find all comments by Mike
John. Why is it, a person can go to church there whole life, here the Gospel, and not be conformed. And then the person they are sitting next to does, and bares fruit? If they both have a free will, should they both, not accept it ?
14

News Item6/20/12 10:59 AM
John for Jesus | usa  Find all comments by John for Jesus
howcan wrote:
How can a sinner in his natural estate make this decision?
How can a sinner in his natural estate perceive that a savior is necessary, when he is in spiritual darkness?
The sinner in his natural estate ie pre-spiritual awareness has no comprehension of spiritual discernment, salvation and his actual estate at that time in his life.
How does this perception come upon the (dead and blind) sinner?
The sinner is aware of God through the light of creation and they are aware if their sin through their conscience. They are made aware of their savior through the preaching of the Gospels. I believe to be spiritually dead means one is seperated from God. That doesn't mean one is unable to respond to God. That would mean spiritually dead people could not sin against God.
13

News Item6/20/12 10:13 AM
howcan  Find all comments by howcan
John for Jesus wrote:
we must decide to believe in the Savior.
How can a sinner in his natural estate make this decision?
How can a sinner in his natural estate perceive that a savior is necessary, when he is in spiritual darkness?

The sinner in his natural estate ie pre-spiritual awareness has no comprehension of spiritual discernment, salvation and his actual estate at that time in his life.

How does this perception come upon the (dead and blind) sinner?

12

News Item6/20/12 9:54 AM
John for Jesus | usa  Find all comments by John for Jesus
from Bible stance wrote:
Why do you Pelagians always ignore sin and its power over man?
Your posts sound as though you really don't want - or need? - a mediator whether to deal with sin or justification?
I believe we need a savior to save us because we can't save ourselves. However, we must decide to believe in the Savior.
11

News Item6/20/12 9:35 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
John for Jesus wrote:
I don't like the arrogance of the Calvinist view...
Actually, if you think about it, it is only the old time Calvinist view which can lead to genuine humility. Don't be fooled by modern neo-Calvinists, some of whom are as cold as ice, and twice as hard. They do not represent Calvinism, but a fatalistic form of the beautiful Biblical Doctrines of Free and Sovereign Grace.

Note, it is the devil's work to turn folks away from the genuine truth, by having some profess it who you would not wish to spend any time with.

10

News Item6/20/12 9:13 AM
from Bible stance  Find all comments by from Bible stance
John for Jesus wrote:
It's not a mystery as to how people receive faith. The Bible is clear that it is through the preaching of the gospel. It never teaches that God decides for anyone what they must decide for themselves
Why do you Pelagians always ignore sin and its power over man?

Your posts sound as though you really don't want - or need? - a mediator whether to deal with sin or justification?

9

News Item6/20/12 8:58 AM
John for Jesus | usa  Find all comments by John for Jesus
It's not a mystery as to how people receive faith. The Bible is clear that it is through the preaching of the gospel. It never teaches that God decides for anyone what they must decide for themselves. I don't like the arrogance of the Calvinist view that feels free to insert their beliefs into scripture.
8

News Item6/20/12 8:27 AM
Mike | Florida  Find all comments by Mike
Amen brother Bill. John. All I can say, pray and read the scriptures. Nobody is saying, we worship John Calvin. We worship Christ Alone! And He makes the rules, not men.
7

News Item6/20/12 12:01 AM
Bro Bill | Montana  Contact via emailFind all comments by Bro Bill
Is God sovereign? Can man thwart the will of God? I grew up believing the Arminian doctrine as preached in the American Baptist churches but was never at peace or satisfied. When I was introduced to the Doctrines Of Grace it was like the scales had fallen from my eyes. I was blind but now I see! All of the Bible makes sense to me. I now have true peace because I know the truth. God IS sovereign! Hallelujah!
6

News Item6/19/12 10:41 PM
Russ | Texas  Find all comments by Russ
John,

It's getting tiring going round and round about this. I think he quoted Spurgeon since he is one of the most notable Baptists. Spurgeon's point was that the Gospel is inseparable from the ideas that we now label "Calvinism". He was right. So call it what you will, but know that we are quoting Scripture that happens to be the source of the doctrines that Calvinism espouses.

5

News Item6/19/12 9:15 PM
John for Jesus | usa  Find all comments by John for Jesus
back to the drawing board wrote:
"A statement by a non-Calvinist faction of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) has launched infighting within the nation's largest Protestant denomination"
"non-Calvinist"???
"The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again."—C. H. Spurgeon
There is a reason you resort to quoting Spurgeon, because Calvinism can't be found in scripture.
4

News Item6/19/12 8:12 PM
Alyhandro | Arizona  Find all comments by Alyhandro
I think back to the drawing board is very dramatic
3

News Item6/19/12 3:24 PM
back to the drawing board  Find all comments by back to the drawing board
"A statement by a non-Calvinist faction of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) has launched infighting within the nation's largest Protestant denomination"

"non-Calvinist"???

"The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again."—C. H. Spurgeon

2

News Item6/19/12 7:22 AM
Mike | Florida  Find all comments by Mike
I'm so glad I am not affiliated with this organization anymore!
Come out among them! The
" new Calvinist " are not any better. They are just emergent, with a name at the end of it.
If u can call mark Driscoll a Calvinist, something's wrong.
Then u have people like James McDonald. Who calls td jakes, a brother in Christ. Someone who denies the trinity! Sorry give me a old Puritan preacher, not willing to compromise, just to be hip!
1
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