in a move whose consequences are simply impossible to judge. White House sources told me that after the interview with ABC News, the president felt as if a weight had been lifted off him. Yes, he was bounced into it by Joe Biden, the lovable Irish-Catholic rogue who couldn’t help but tell the truth about his own views on TV (only to be immediately knocked down by David Axelrod on Twitter). But Obama had been planning to endorse gay marriage before his reelection for a while. White House sources say that if Obama had been a state senator in New York last year when the Albany legislature legalized gay marriage, he’d have voted in favor. But no one asked. The “make news” reveal was scheduled for The View. In the end, scrambling to catch up with his veep, he turned to his fellow ESPN fan, Robin Roberts, a Christian African-American from Mississippi, to quell the sudden kerfuffle. Even this was calculated:...
Faks wrote: But Romans 11 says Jews are BROKEN OFF BRANCHES that CAN be grafted in again IF they believe. And Christians are warned not to be proud they're of the tree and Jews broken off branches, because just as God broke off the Jews for unbelief, he can (and will) also break Christians off for unbelief.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
The discussion started by Russ (see below) is on Romans 11, which he misapplied to mean ALL Jews will be saved.
But Romans 11 says Jews are BROKEN OFF BRANCHES that CAN be grafted in again IF they believe. And Christians are warned not to be proud they're of the tree and Jews broken off branches, because just as God broke off the Jews for unbelief, he can (and will) also break Christians off for unbelief.
Romans 11:
20: Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches (Jews), take heed lest he also spare not thee (Christians).
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness,IF thou continue in his goodness: OTHERWISE thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, IF they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree.
Faks wrote: so can Christians be broken off if we stop believing
Arminianism!
5th point of Arminian Remonstrance; "Those who believe and are truly saved can lose their salvation by failing to keep up their faith, etc. All Arminians have not been agreed on this point; some have held that believers are eternally secure in Christ--that once a sinner is regenerated, he can never be lost.
This was the system of thought contained in the "Remonstrance" it was submitted by the Arminians to the Church of Holland in 1610 for adoption but was rejected by the Synod of Dort in 1619 on the ground that it was unscriptural.
Russ wrote: "Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins." As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all."(Romans 11:25-32 ESV)
"Mercy to ALL," means forgiveness to all who obey, a remnant, not universal salvation to every human. Bible says: Jews are "broken off branches," (tree is Jesus), but can be grafted in again IF THEY BELIEVE (obey), and so can Christians be broken off if we stop believing (obeying).
KJB says "unbelief" not "disobedience." Same animal.
Russ wrote: Jpw The Jews have experienced a partial hardening until all of God's elect from among the nations have been brought in. And while they are at times enemies of the gospel, there will come a time when that is not the case. So instead of going off on conspiracy rabbit trails, IMO we need to focus on faithfully being and making disciples.
Amen!
Gil Rugh said or, wrote: .... Details of the mystery being revealed include the partial hardening of the Jews and how previous revelation fits together with the new revelation without changing the previous. The Old Testament had many details, but not enough to fit together a complete overall picture.
As further details were revealed, the coming judgment for Jews and Gentiles became more understandable. Presently Israel as a nation, while under God's is experiencing a partial hardening until God completes His plan of salvation focused on Gentiles. Once complete He will resume His plan with Israel.
Russ and others, thanks for the awesome reminders of God's providence in redeeming the lost in Romans 11.
The natural branches were being cut off because of unbelief. The remedy was teaching the gospel. Many gentiles would believe, some Jewish people, in the end looks like more Jewish people will believe. This is all good news and strategy to the business of a Christian. How can we serve the nonbelieving Gentile or Jew -- share the gospel, live in peace as is possible.
Many early Christians fled Jerusalem -- So I'm having difficuly finding the sword and the crusade in this chapter...
I asked a specific question about how Christ is portrayed in some "holy" books, and it seems no one really wants to look behind the door. I am no expert, but neither am I on the Koran, etc, I do my best to research and learn. There's always the excuse of language and the like..... but the noahide laws are readily available...
I am just not of the belief that someone is saved because of their race. If they trust in Christ, He provides the way. If they try on their own merits they will never be holy enough before a holy God.
To compromise this position is to say there are two ways of salvation.
First the rabbit trail comment that I made is really directed toward Faks' conspiracy rants.
The scriptural support for my comments is : "Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
"The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob";
"and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins." As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all."(Romans 11:25-32 ESV)
jpw wrote: can you provide scripture reference to your first two points?
Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches........
Russ wrote: Jpw The Jews have experienced a partial hardening until all of God's elect from among the nations have been brought in. And while they are at times enemies of the gospel, there will come a time when that is not the case. So instead of going off on conspiracy rabbit trails, IMO we need to focus on faithfully being and making disciples.
Russ -- can you provide scripture reference to your first two points? and also a scriptural reference as to why knowing what is said about Christ in other religions is useless rabbit trails? (since in my experience, every possible cult or religion is thorougly analzed in Christian bookstores). have we hit upon the CZ's political correct area?
The Jews have experienced a partial hardening until all of God's elect from among the nations have been brought in. And while they are at times enemies of the gospel, there will come a time when that is not the case. So instead of going off on conspiracy rabbit trails, IMO we need to focus on faithfully being and making disciples.
from what I understand, Noahide law, which all gentiles would be expected to follow, trusting in Messiah is idolatry.
that would make sense, if you have rejected the Messiah....
so we have the CZ's conducting the crusades, portions of the ME conducting jihad, and a race to who gets the spoils of the west: darwin, noahide law, or sharia (and darwinist China).....because the Christians have fallen for the fervor instead of the New Covenant, a covenant of grace.
is anyone here capable of responding to faks concerns about the talmud?
I would also point out, this comment that lasts forever,
Genesis12:1 Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you; 2 And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing; 3 And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."---NASB
Pay no mind to the garbage faks is spewing -- I'm going to take the Christian side of the whole thing and remind everybody that anybody without Christ is condemned already. That means that Muslims and Jews have no hope of salvation apart from Christ. Also, Muslims are some of the most blood-thirsty people on the planet, looking to further Shia Law and kill of the opposition. Strangely, every conspiracy theorist wants to blame everything in history on those "evil Jews," never mind the fact that they are completely surrounded by people who want to massacre them.
Kevin Swanson has done some really good programs on conspiracies here at Sermon Audio and the Biblical response to them. I recommend Faks check them out. Also, Russ from Texas has made some excellent points and I pray Faks will come to see the truth of what he said.
Faks wrote: What is your point? Some take-off on total depravity, that all humankind is pure evil and so Christians (so-called) should blow up the planet for the Jews? Children too? What about "Suffer the little children, and whoever offends one it would be better to have a millstone tied around the neck and thrown in the ocean?" --- What goes around comes around. America is hanging by a thread, Fukishima is spilling radioactivity throughout the globe (we can thank Mossad for that too, along with 9/11), and who knows what other intrigue and murder the Luciferian, Freemasonic Judaics have in store, but we can be sure it will mean lots of death and misery. ---
Point? Wow lady, "Suffer the little children" yet, while Muslim rockets pound Israeli women and children daily. If you're going to be an apologist for the Muslim pure in heart, at least admit it.
Mossad wrought the Fukushima disaster? How exactly did the they bring about a tsunami? Perhaps they all got together(with millstones) and jumped off a big ship at the same time?
Mike wrote: What, no "wink, wink" after all that? Or did Muslims miss the Fall somehow?
What is your point? Some take-off on total depravity, that all humankind is pure evil and so Christians (so-called) should blow up the planet for the Jews? Children too? What about "Suffer the little children, and whoever offends one it would be better to have a millstone tied around the neck and thrown in the ocean?"
A religion that gives license to hate and kill is worse than no religion at all.
Talmudic Judaism gives license/command to kill all the nonJews, that it's a virtue and a blessing to do so. Seems like Christian Zionists have adopted the same ideology: no compassion, no mercy, no justice, no humility, just greed and pride and rejoicing in evil.
What goes around comes around. America is hanging by a thread, Fukishima is spilling radioactivity throughout the globe (we can thank Mossad for that too, along with 9/11), and who knows what other intrigue and murder the Luciferian, Freemasonic Judaics have in store, but we can be sure it will mean lots of death and misery.
2 Tim. 2:19 Let every one that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
when a false gospel is taught by evangelicals and jokes are made about foreign adventures that lead to Christian genocide...... when it is taught that it is inevitable and that it leads to armageddon, stoke fire.....
I must come to the conclusion that Iz is no different than the Am CZ Church. political sides working for wwiii.
"For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
"....For I am the least of the apostles...because I persecuted the church of God...
"...If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts of Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not?..
"Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." taken from 1 Corinth 15 -- the resurrection chapter, what is coming for the chosen nation of 1 Peter 2?
Christ's second coming is for the resurrection of the dead.... judgement for sin....to put all things under his feet.....to conquer death.....
Faks wrote: (A) innocent Muslim nations... ... humble, God-fearing, family loving people who love righteousness and hate sin, don't abort, fornicate, sodomize, or live for greed...
(B) 'oh most proud' America
(A) Good joke Faks.
(B) "The real menace of our Republic is the invisible Government which like a giant Octopus, sprawls its slimy legs over our cities, states, and nation." - John F. Hylan - Mayor NYC 1918-1925
"The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know that a financial element in the large centers has OWNED the Government of the U.S. since the days of Andrew Jackson." (History points to the last truly honorable and incorruptible American President as "Old Hickory") - FDR to Col. E. Mandell House 11/21/1933
"Give me control of a Nation's money and I care not who makes the laws." - Mayer Amschel Bauer (Rothschild)
"The United Nations is the greatest fraud in all History! Its purpose is to destroy the United States ." - John Rankin , U.S. Congressman
"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our Banking and Monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a Revolution before tomorrow morning." - Henry Ford
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Good joke Faks.
