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WEDNESDAY, APRIL 16, 2014 | TIPS Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
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WEDNESDAY, MAY 2, 2012| 73 comments| 1 commentary
NC Megachurch Pastor Says It's a Sin to Forbid Speaking in Tongues


J. D. Greear

A Durham, N.C., megachurch pastor recently asserted that he would not forbid people from speaking in tongues and to do so is a sin.

"You're never going to hear me either publicly or privately tell somebody that they should not be speaking in tongues in their private prayer times," The Summit Church Pastor J. D. Greear stated on Sunday to his congregation, noting that the Apostle Paul was clear on this. "That's not going to be forbidden at our church."

During the series, Greear noted that his denomination – the Southern Baptist Convention – has in many ways restricted speaking in tongues and believes "they are wrong and they are in sin for doing that." ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 73 user comment(s)
News Item5/11/12 12:48 PM
San Jose John | San Jose, CA  Find all comments by San Jose John
millercl wrote:
Right, if it is a demon, wouldn't she bear the fruit there of? Why would you stifle something that you can't definitively say is dangerous and helps her feel closer to the God of the Bible?
Sure, if she starts becoming disobedient, you might find some causation or correlation, but why don't you encourage your sister, build her up like you should? I understand the warning, but again, unless she isn't bearing fruits of the spirit then there is no need for correction or such...
Her life has been a huge mess for at least 2 decades. No fruit of any kind that I or anyone else can see; but she does have mental issues too, so THAT could be at least part of the "demon" she's dealing with, and apparently has been for some time now. Not a very good testimony for "tongues" at all.

My original point was that as Christians we are to test the spirits to see if they are from God, which my sister, and so many like her today who foolishly pray words they don't understand nor ever seem to at least TRY to, never seem to do.

If Paul says 5 words in a known tongue are worth more than 5000 in an unknown tongue, who today is going to waste time on the latter?

73

News Item5/8/12 6:05 PM
Regenerated | Faroe Islands  Find all comments by Regenerated
Dear brothers! Here is a wonderful and powerful testimony from brother Paul Washer. It's wonderful to hear how God touched him by His power.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=5612211420

72

News Item5/7/12 2:53 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Lurker wrote:
Ask and ye shall receive.
1Cr 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
(Source: Is 28:11 in context) Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine! Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Thank you brother.

You might be right, but currently I do not see it. The Lord regularly "spoke" to his wayward people through "foreigners"; not by a "voice", as in speech, but by armies and tribulation, in order to their national repentance. This pattern is most consistent throughout the OT. He spoke first through his own prophets, but when they were ignored, through attacks of his enemies, or even through physical afflictions et al.

I'm keeping an open mind though.

71

News Item5/6/12 6:33 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
John UK wrote:
If you find one scripture that shows tongues as "God speaking to men" in the NT, please put me straight on that.
Ask and ye shall receive.

1Cr 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

(Source: Is 28:11 in context) Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine! Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.

For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. (Is 28:1-29)

The "mighty and strong one" (v2) was Paul; born a Roman citizen and spoke their language. Why, do you suppose, did God speak to the rulers of the people of Jerusalem in "another tongue" if they were Hebrew Jews?

70

News Item5/6/12 5:37 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
jes askin wrote:
Yes John, the Greek for tongue in 1Cor 12-14 is the word "glossa" G1100 γλῶσσα
"glōssa" ~ Of uncertain affinity; the tongue; by implication a language (specifically one naturally unacquired): - tongue.
Does that mean that the use of 'glossa' in Corinthians indicates it was not a known language but, as the pentecostals would have it, a heavenly one? Or is the uncertainty of the origin a hindrance to getting at the truth?
69

News Item5/6/12 5:27 PM
jes askin  Find all comments by jes askin
John UK wrote:
Here in the UK we have several different and complex dialects, and although the language is English, it can be almost impossible sometimes to grasp what another is saying. I don't know if that applies here (as the greek word for 'language' v6 and 'tongue' v8 is the same word 'dialektos'. Either way, it is a definite language immediately understood by those visitors from abroad.
Yes John, the Greek for tongue in 1Cor 12-14 is the word "glossa" G1100 γλῶσσα

"glōssa" ~ Of uncertain affinity; the tongue; by implication a language (specifically one naturally unacquired): - tongue.

68

News Item5/6/12 4:37 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
jes askin wrote:
Thanks for that John. BTW In regard to your point above; how do you read the use of the word "language" at Acts 2:6, and its further explanation in v7-11?
Also have you read the site ref which "tonguetied" provided below = Here
And the historic point made about Corinthe as a sea port?
Here in the UK we have several different and complex dialects, and although the language is English, it can be almost impossible sometimes to grasp what another is saying. I don't know if that applies here (as the greek word for 'language' v6 and 'tongue' v8 is the same word 'dialektos'. Either way, it is a definite language immediately understood by those visitors from abroad.

I did have a quick look at the article, but weariness prevented me from studying it, sadly. Maybe tomorrow. (Unless you can give a potted version of it?)

67

News Item5/6/12 4:11 PM
jes askin  Find all comments by jes askin
John UK wrote:
Pentecost to me is a one-off, and we do not have any evidence that the apostles and disciples made use of the spiritual gift in order to preach the gospel in a foreign language abroad.
Thanks for that John. BTW In regard to your point above; how do you read the use of the word "language" at Acts 2:6, and its further explanation in v7-11?

Also have you read the site ref which "tonguetied" provided below = Here
And the historic point made about Corinthe as a sea port?

66

News Item5/6/12 3:32 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
jes askin wrote:
My original question still stands, "Why on earth would you stand up in the midst of the congregation you attend, and start speaking in a foreign language?"
Jes askin

To answer the question, I will first of all have to define what was being accomplished by the one speaking in tongues.

Let me state categorically that tongues is "man speaking to God" and prophecy is "God speaking to man".

Pentecost to me is a one-off, and we do not have any evidence that the apostles and disciples made use of the spiritual gift in order to preach the gospel in a foreign language abroad.

But if my definition is correct, then imagine what a church service would have been like. Some would have started up a Psalm, which would have been sung by the congregation; others would prophesy or give a word of instruction; some would pray, and some would pray in tongues which required an interpreter.

It becomes easy then to understand why Paul was more concerned that men would prophesy, rather than have lengthy prayers which would then require a lengthy interpretation.

p.s. If you find one scripture that shows tongues as "God speaking to men" in the NT, please put me straight on that.

65

News Item5/6/12 3:10 PM
jes askin  Find all comments by jes askin
tonguetied wrote:
You must consider what Corinth was in NT times and with God's help this article will answer your own question.
The Problem of Tongues in I Corinthians 14
http://www.alliancenet.org/partner/Article_Display_Page/0,,PTID307086_CHID560462_CIID1415642,00.html
Thanks.

Good article! I am looking at it deeper having just skimmed over first.

64

News Item5/6/12 3:02 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Ahem

1 Corinthians 14
27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and let one interpret;
28 but if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.---NASB

Indian Hills Community Church almost always has a person translating what Gil says during almost every sermon of Gil's at the same time Gil is preaching it. Gil would be speaking in a tongue for some people, who wouldn't know Gil was teaching, except for the fact that we have a person doing sign language for those who have a severe hearing problem. It has seemed to work out quite well. If memory serves one of our signers got a state job, because of the training she got in signing at the Hills.

But thankfully we aren't a pentecostal church where people are yelping at the moon and writhing on the floor --foaming at the mouth-- like some rabid dog.

63

News Item5/6/12 1:58 PM
tonguetied  Find all comments by tonguetied
jes askin wrote:
My original question still stands, "Why on earth would you stand up in the midst of the congregation you attend, and start speaking in a foreign language?"
The 'action' itself doesn't make any sense.
So we need to look for another avenue to approach this.
You must consider what Corinth was in NT times and with God's help this article will answer your own question.

The Problem of Tongues in I Corinthians 14

http://www.alliancenet.org/partner/Article_Display_Page/0,,PTID307086_CHID560462_CIID1415642,00.html

62

News Item5/6/12 1:28 PM
jes askin  Find all comments by jes askin
John UK wrote:
However, on pentecost, the languages spoken were not previously known by the disciples, but were spontaneous. And it may even be possible that the disciples did not know what they said until the foreigners exclaimed it
I think you will agree that the Pentecost gift of Tongues was a very practical solution to evangelism by the disciples on their future journeys to other countries which spoke different languages.
Therefore 'speaking in tongues' within your local church setting is a different circumstance. eg: 1Cor 14.

My original question still stands, "Why on earth would you stand up in the midst of the congregation you attend, and start speaking in a foreign language?"

The 'action' itself doesn't make any sense.

So we need to look for another avenue to approach this.

Why 'in effect' would Paul teach that we are not to speak in foreign languages in the church we attend, when the people in the pews beside us are not going to understand it?

Logically it would be a stupid thing to do. For example, question, Is the person speaking in foreign language trying to communicate/teach? When he knows those around him speak in an entirely different language.

So what are we really dealing with here?

61

News Item5/6/12 7:41 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Michael Hranek wrote:
Brother John
Oops, looks like I am a "cessationist" just not like the hyper ones I met in the South (U.S.)
Thanks for your enccouraging post back.
Bro Michael (and Bro Mike)

It is a bit of a minefield this subject, and difficult to prove either way. But if you would care to ponder this very short and sweet article by Phil Johnson I think you will find it immensely profitable.

BTW Mike, thanks for that, quite correct.

60

News Item5/6/12 7:11 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
Dear bro
1. So the "signs of an apostle" are no longer, therefore you hold a cessationist position.
---
Speaking with tongues, and healings,etc., may be signs of an apostle, but were not limited only to the apostles, made clear by these verses:

1 Corinthians 12:28-31
"And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way."

59

News Item5/6/12 6:57 AM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
John UK wrote:
Dear bro
1. So the "signs of an apostle"
Brother John
Oops, looks like I am a "cessationist" just not like the hyper ones I met in the South (U.S.)

Thanks for your enccouraging post back.

58

News Item5/6/12 6:50 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Michael Hranek wrote:
Dear Brother John,
As to 'apostolic power' I am not in the least worried we do not have 'apostles' today through whom God is doing miracles, that is not my point.

Cessationists make it out like God has changed when He is the very same God He was in Acts, Who we can grow to know, love and joyfully serve (only by His Grace) every bit as much as the early believers did in Acts and we don't have to speak in tongues to do so BUT DO desperately need THE ONGOING MINISTRY of the Holy Spirit.

Dear bro
1. So the "signs of an apostle" are no longer, therefore you hold a cessationist position.

2. Amen and amen! I wholeheartedly agree with this. I believe that the current evangelical church system is in grave danger, abiding in a middle position halfway between vibrant Christianity and full apostasy. And except the Holy Spirit is given his rightful place, it won't be long before the gospel itself disappears, congregations become nominal, and apostasy takes hold.

Sure, the ministry of the Spirit is mostly absent at meetings these days. And I believe he will continue to be absent so long as we imagine we can get on without him. Whatever happened to weeping in prayer for his manifestation?

57

News Item5/6/12 6:04 AM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
John UK wrote:
Dear bro
Methinks the hypercalvs have turned your mind against the beautiful doctrines of grace, and hyper-cessationists have also turned your mind.
Here is example of apostolic power:
Dear Brother John,

If anyone was wrongly opposed and maligned for displaying the power (of the Spirit), the Grace and the Sovereign Authority of God, the Entire Trustworthiness of the Scriptures it is our exceedingly precious Savior Who gave Himself for us on the Cross.

IMHO Calvinists do not begin to do the Grace of God justice in their systematic theology so concentrating on predestination they often fail to speak of Grace in terms of God's provision for our salvation and Grace in terms of God's supernatural empowerment that we might do (live out) His will in our lives.

As to 'apostolic power' I am not in the least worried we do not have 'apostles' today through whom God is doing miracles, that is not my point.

Cessationists make it out like God has changed when He is the very same God He was in Acts, Who we can grow to know, love and joyfully serve (only by His Grace) every bit as much as the early believers did in Acts and we don't have to speak in tongues to do so BUT DO desperately need THE ONGOING MINISTRY of the Holy Spirit.

56

News Item5/6/12 5:01 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Michael Hranek wrote:
"Cessationists" I have met have been so against "tongues" they act like His help has ceased, when the Truth is we so need THE PRESENT DAY HELP (far more than gifts) of the Holy Spirit to live for Christ. OOS
Dear bro
Methinks the hypercalvs have turned your mind against the beautiful doctrines of grace, and hyper-cessationists have also turned your mind.
Here is example of apostolic power:

Acts 3:2-8
2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.
4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.
5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.
6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.

I see none doing this today.

55

News Item5/6/12 12:22 AM
Praying For Bob  Find all comments by Praying For Bob
I agree John UK. These IFB and Bob Jones people do not read their own bible concerning the giftsd of the spirit. They claim that speaking in tongues has been done away with but have no verses to show. Even Paul says that if you do not have something to say in a unknown tongue to be prohesied on that would edify the church then he preferred you speaking in the known language adn he did not say do not do it at all. Paul distinguished between knowing when and by being sure you are led by the spirit because if it is of you it wil not edify the church. Tha is all he meant and not to never speak in tongues.

The Bob Jones type are very close minded
and most of his followers just do not read for themselves instead they may as well just repeat what ever dr. Bob says.

By the way he never erned a degree out of his high school diploma and first four years of college. His doctorate degree was granted to him as well as his master or seminary diploma.

He should humble himself and listen and quit hating black people & hiding rapist pastors on his board because people are watching him very close now.

He is considered a cult leader because if you do not agree with him even when he is dead wrong & just like with chuck Phelps who hid a Rapist & thats why Chris was kicked out

54
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