Wycliff Bible Translators agrees to review after criticism over substitutions for ‘Son’ and ‘Father’
Last month, Wycliffe agreed to an independent review of its policies by the World Evangelical Alliance, which plans to appoint a panel of experts to determine whether Wycliffe and affiliated groups are improperly replacing the terms “Son of God” and “God the Father.”
The decision comes after a growing number of critics decried the materials as attempts to avoid controversy that fundamentally altered Christian theology. The dispute moved from Internet forums and online petitions to concern from large Christian bodies. The Assemblies of God — one of the largest Pentecostal fellowships, with more than 60 million members in affiliated churches worldwide — announced it would review its longstanding relationship with Wycliffe.
Wycliffe, which is involved in more than 1,500 Bible translation programs in roughly 90 countries, generally prefers a method known as “dynamic equivalent translation,” Creson...
"The facts in the case are these. The KJ translators used Greek MSS that represent the type of Greek text supported by an overwhelming majority of extant Greek MSS of the New Testament. There are, according to Wilbur N. Pickering, more than 5,000 Greek MSS of the New Testament. Eighty to ninety percent of these MSS are in basic agreement among themselves. The Greek text contained in this majority of MSS is known as the Majority Text, the Byzantine Text, or the Traditional Text (TT). The text of the KJV, which belongs to this majority of MSS, but is not perfectly identical with the TT, is known as the Textus Receptus(TR) - the "Received Text." This text was accepted as the authentic text of the New Testament by the Protestant Church from the Reformation to the nineteenth century and by the Greek Church for more than a thousand years before the Reformation.
In the nineteenth century, Westcott and Hort asserted the superiority of a type of text represented by a small minority of Greek MSS, particularly Codex Vaticanus (B) and Codex Sinaiticus (Aleph), which had recently been discovered" (Rev D Englesma)
Modern versions NASB/NIV etc, use the Westcott and Hort text.
James May wrote: There are many Christians who do not understand the very serious nature of the King James Only heresy. They suppose that KJVers prefer the 1611 Bible over all other translations, believe that it is the very best of English versions, and perhaps use the KJV to the exclusion of all other Bibles. Unfortunately the King James Only movement goes far beyond such a moderate belief and practice. Instead it teaches that the KJV is the one and only perfect Bible and that all modern translations are corruptions of the Word of God. Christians who do not exclusively use and defend the KJV as the perfect Word of God are viewed as disobedient and/or ignorant. King James Onlyism teaches that true blue KJVers should separate from their less obedient brethren, or at least diligently seek to win them to “The Truth.” Those who teach these false views frequently display a smug confidence that they alone are the true defenders of the Word of God. More extreme forms teach that people can only be saved through the words of the AV 1611....
Jim Lincoln wrote: Why should I listen to heresy, and that is what a Baptist would say about a Bible done by an Anglican Church that hated Baptists
It is not heresy Jim. As you know the KJB has been used by God for four centuries and is still in divine hands use today.
But I will tell you what is heresy! And that is some of the works, ideas, convictions and theologies of Westcott and Hort the two Liberal Anglicans whose work is used by Nestle-Aland Greek texts which are the texts which support the modern versions of the Bible, such as NASB/NIV etc.
Why should I listen to heresy, and that is what a Baptist would say about a Bible done by an Anglican Church that hated Baptists, It is heresy to say the AV is directly inspired. The Influence of An Anglican Archbishop on the KJV. Though there seems to be trouble today in accessing URLs by the standard SA tag for them, that one can be found at:
http://www.kjv-only.com/rick/bancroft.html
Know your Bible wrote: Jim Lincoln You really really need to listen to these sermons on Sermonaudio. Sermons on KJB
Jim Lincoln wrote: 'Was the translation process from original languages into English of 1611 A.D. protected from error by direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit?
Jim Lincoln You really really need to listen to these sermons on Sermonaudio. Sermons on KJB
Original James want another quotation! I'm more than happy to oblige! 'Was the translation process from original languages into English of 1611 A.D. protected from error by direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit? "KJV only" advocates say yes! The Facts say NO!'
Steve Rudd wrote: King James Version (KJV) ONLY??? Irrefutable proof the translators were not inspired Introductory notes 69 Questions for "KJV only" advocates 1611 marginal notes devastating!!! Indisputable, universally recognized errors in the KJV Inconsistency in translation A Good Translation, But Nothing More Egyptian Corruption Argument refuted Historical bloodline of "KJV only" false teachers Archaic Language of the KJV: 419 examples! The Original translators Preface to the 1611 Edition
SOLA AUTOGRAPHA or SOLA APOGRAPHA? A CASE for the PRESENT PERFECTION and AUTHORITY of the HOLY SCRIPTURES Dr. Jeffrey Khoo
"... But I believe that the Bible is the Word of GOD-and I believe that GOD's Word must be absolutely infallible. I shall therefore believe the Bible to be absolutely infallible,-until I am convinced to the contrary."
"No, Sirs! The Bible (be persuaded) is the very utterance of the Eternal;-as much GOD's Word, as if high Heaven were open, and we heard GOD speaking to us with human voice ... [T]he Bible, from the Alpha to the Omega of it, is filled to overflowing with the Holy Spirit of GOD: the Books of it, and the sentences of it, and the words of it, and the syllables of it,-aye, and the very letters of it." Amen and Amen!" (Dean Burgon)
Dean Burgon defends the King James Version of the Word of God!
Jim You should go back to quoting when you talk about this stuff without it you sound ridiculous. Your ignorance is astounding. And your buddy James white is a Jesuit and I suspect so are you. Council of Trent's primary mission to discredit the Erasmus text responsible in large part for the Reformation
Mike wrote: Yet somehow it is those oldest of churches that have been around the longest, that are at the forefront of apostasy. Why did't the KJV prevent their drift, which began before version influence? Could it possibly be something in the heart of man?
Forget the translation war. It's the Woodstock factor: Sex. Drugs. Rock-n-roll. Once these pastors got caught up in this birth-controlled world, their Christian moorings were shot. Overlay the Internet on our SDR culture and few will remain loyal to our Lord and Savior. The oppression is real. Its power is unprecidented. Watch Obama wield it with skill, agility and finesse as your church and mine pays for the abortive SDR lifestyle.
TS wrote: --- Since, again, we can always come back and declare that God used the KING JAMES VERSION 'and' the Textus Receptus to build His Church over the last four hundred years!!!!!! Both are therefore authorised by God Himself - The "AV" Whereas your modern versions are produced within a time of such abject apostasy!!!!
Yet somehow it is those oldest of churches that have been around the longest, that are at the forefront of apostasy. Why did't the KJV prevent their drift, which began before version influence? Could it possibly be something in the heart of man?
Jim Lincoln wrote: Really don't talk to me about the minor faults of Westcott and Hort --when compared to some of the translators of the AV-- it's really an argumentum ad hominim the much more serious faults of the AV.
Rubbish arguement Jim!!
Since, again, we can always come back and declare that God used the KING JAMES VERSION 'and' the Textus Receptus to build His Church over the last four hundred years!!!!!!
Both are therefore authorised by God Himself - The "AV"
Whereas your modern versions are produced within a time of such abject apostasy!!!!
Oh, TS, of course one still has to compare the accuracy of translation to the good rational standards and the Textus Receptus which was by Roman Catholic priest, and was designed to appeal to the Romish sentiments of the day, is a very bad translation, remember, Novum Instrumentum omne the Greek New Testament by Erasmus? Go read about it on Wikipedia. Really don't talk to me about the minor faults of Westcott and Hort --when compared to some of the translators of the AV-- it's really an argumentum ad hominim the much more serious faults of the AV.
Istead of Dean Burgon we can go to the actual personal letters of Westcott and Hort, Jim. Here are some heretical practices you may also like to follow!
Hort in one of his letters wrote..
October 17, 1865 – to B.F. Westcott -- On Roman Catholicism
"I have been persuaded for many years that Mary-worship and ‘Jesus’-worship have very much in common in their causes and results…we condemn all secondary human mediators as injurious to the One, and shut our eyes to the indestructible fact of existing human mediation which is to be found everywhere. But this last error can hardly be expelled till Protestants unlearn the crazy horror of the idea of priesthood."" (F.J.A.Hort) _______
Westcott in one of his letters wrote
Second Sunday after Epiphany, 1847 -- To His Fiancée -- On Mariolotry
"After leaving the monastery, we shaped our course to a little oratory which we discovered on the summit of a neighboring hill…Fortunately we found the door open. It is very small, with one kneeling place; and behind a screen was a ‘Pieta’ the size of life [i.e., a Virgin and dead Christ]…Had I been alone I could have knelt there for hours.’" (B.F.Westcott)
Jim Lincoln Are you such a popish fan of maryolatry too?
As James May pointed out,--"KJVers of whatever stripe make a regular habit of misrepresenting the views of various men of the past in order to support their false position. This author, for example, has spent considerable time examining the many false, vicious and wicked accusations that have been made against Brooke Foss Westcott.... "Burgon, Anglican Churchman and Greek scholar, was a contemporary and vigorous opponent of Westcott and Hort. While Burgon spoke highly of their character and ability, he opposed the Westcott and Hort Greek New Testament and the English Revised Version derived from it with very harsh language. KJVers make a false assumption, however, when they assume that the enemy of their enemy is their friend. Burgon differed with the Dean Burgon Society first in regard to the process which led to the creation of the Textus Receptus and the King James Bible, and secondly in regard to the alleged perfection of the TR and KJV. In reality, the position and teachings of John Burgon demonstrate him to be the greatest enemy of King James Onlyism."--from, Dean Burgon: The Greatest Enemy of King James Onlyism
""Now I submit that it is a sufficient condemnation of Codexes B/Aleph/C/D as a supreme court of judicature (1) That as a rule they are observed to be discordant in their judgements: (2) That when they thus differ among themselves it is generally demonstrable by an appeal to antiquity that the two principal judges B and Aleph have delivered a mistaken judgement: (3) That when these two differ one from the other, the supreme judge B is often in the wrong: and lastly (4) That it constantly happens that all four agree, and yet all four are in error." [Dean Burgon, The Traditional Text]
Not only are these four old uncials distorted and mistaken, but they contradict each other as well as the Traditional Text. Dean Burgon also said of these old uncials:
"No progress is possible in the department of Textual Criticism until the superstition--for we are persuaded that it is nothing less--which at present prevails concerning certain of the old uncials (as they are called) has been abandoned." [Dean Burgon, The Traditional Text]
Unfortunately, our modern self-styled "textual critics" failed to heed this word of warning. Instead, they continue the "superstition."" (Dean Burgon Soc)
all good wrote: KJV brought to you Nasb and ESV brought to you Arabic translations brought to you All Bibles brought to you
Obviously you are not a Christian. Otherwise you would be aware of where God fits in.
Psalm 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
Here is a Bible message for the Roman Catholics. Isaiah 41:29 Behold, they are all vanity; their works are nothing: their molten images are wind and confusion.
Isaiah 42:17 They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye are our gods.
Isaiah 44:10 Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing?
Hab 2:18 What profiteth the graven image that the maker thereof hath graven it; the molten image, and a teacher of lies, that the maker of his work trusteth therein, to make dumb idols?
Jim Lincoln wrote: Erasmus was the supporter of Satan, so you really should stop, Westcott & Hort: Victims
Jim Lincoln So you confirm that you are into the Anglican Liberal - Roman Catholic sympathiser philosophy of these two heretics? OK fair enough we accept thats where you are at Jim.
But I really wish you were more aware of heretics like Erasmus proved that he was...
"Erasmus of Rotterdam (1466-1536) had travelled to England in 1499 to meet with Thomas More, and Erasmus had ample opportunity to observe the corruption and cynicism of the Roman Church. In 1509 Erasmus published his Ecomium Moriae, or The Praise of Folly, which stirred theologians to an uproar with its biting satire on the absurdities of Church teaching, its ridicule of the Pope and celibacy and other sacred tenets of Catholicism. Erasmus reserved his chief scorn for his fellow clergy:
"...whose brains are the rottenest, intellects the dullest, doctrines the thorniest, manners the brutalest, life the foulest, speech the spitefullest, hearts the blackest, that ever I encountered in the world." [p.25]" Dean Burgon Soc.
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Dr. Alan Cairns | 3/16/2009
Brian Edwards | 7/17/2008
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The other two fellows I would suggest should read, 
christopher000 from rhode island: "thanks...i'm very careful about who i give to as..."
