It’s official. The concern pro-life organizations had about the ObamaCare legislation funding abortions has been confirmed, as the Obama administration has issued the final rules on abortion funding governing the controversial health care law.
Nestled within the “individual mandate” in the Obamacare act — that portion of the Act requiring every American to purchase government — approved insurance or pay a penalty — is an “abortion premium mandate.” This mandate requires all persons enrolled in insurance plans that include elective abortion coverage to pay a separate premium from their own pockets to fund abortion. As a result, many pro-life Americans will have to decide between a plan that violates their consciences by funding abortion, or a plan that may not meet their health needs....
Neil wrote: 1) You did not argue from Scripture; 2) You beg the question that national healthcare actually results in better health for all; 3) You assume my philosophy follows from my circumstances, which is uncharitable. Three strikes: you're out!
Let Jim have his dollar abortions and free contraceptives for college students, Neil. Are you a meany Bush-oil Republican or something?
Jim Lincoln wrote: yes, Neil, we know you got yours [how?], (health insurance provided by company perhaps?) So the rest can go jump in the lake.
1) You did not argue from Scripture; 2) You beg the question that national healthcare actually results in better health for all; 3) You assume my philosophy follows from my circumstances, which is uncharitable & insulting. Sounds like you're projecting your value system (it is right because it benefits Jim) onto me.
Jim Lincoln wrote: yes, Neil, we know you got yours, (health insurance provided by company perhaps?) So the rest can go jump in the lake. It is probably true that it is cheaper to have healthcare for all, because it is cheaper to keep people healthy and productive for one thing. Anyway, people have to pay for the privilege for all the benefits they get from living in the United States. Oh, as far as the Romish church is concerned, a famous aide to Robert E. Lee, one Mr. Dabney who became pastor Dabney, at this point to make about the power-hungry Romish church, The Perils of Popery.
yes, Neil, we know you got yours, (health insurance provided by company perhaps?) So the rest can go jump in the lake. It is probably true that it is cheaper to have healthcare for all, because it is cheaper to keep people healthy and productive for one thing. Anyway, people have to pay for the privilege for all the benefits they get from living in the United States.
Oh, as far as the Romish church is concerned, a famous aide to Robert E. Lee, one Mr. Dabney who became pastor Dabney, at this point to make about the power-hungry Romish church, The Perils of Popery.
OP wrote: To Prolific How dare you judge me! You missed my point altogether. I dismiss you as someone who is ignorant. I am not going to defend my position to you.
If you don't want your comments judged don't post them.
Your opening comment indicates a greater concern over the public financing of healthcare than over the murder of the unborn.
God's concern is NOT over how a murder is funded.
When David murdered Uriah the Hittite God did not take him to task for employing and wasting federal resources in doing so regardless of whether it cost 1 shekel or 10,000 shekels. God judged him for murder.
I stand by my assessment of your comment.
You are welcome to judge my comment, it is a public forum.
Mike wrote: Imo, ihe RCC isn't made up to favor limited government, for it is a command and control, top down arrangement itself , like its secular big governmant counterparts.
Akin to "No bishop, no king." Birds of a feather...
Neil, good observation. Imo, ihe RCC isn't made up to favor limited government, for it is a command and control, top down arrangement itself , like its secular big governmant counterparts.
A sample: "[Rerum Novarum] and the related social teaching of the Church had far-reaching influence in the years bridging the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. This influence is evident in the numerous reforms which were introduced in the areas of social security, pensions, health insurance and compensation in the case of accidents, within the framework of greater respect for the rights of workers." - Centesimus Annus, John Paul II
I have a difficult time finding any language supporting laissez-faire capitalism & limited gov't in official Catholic teaching; maybe you can help me here. Also note the explicit support given to Federal health care legislation by U.S. cardinals:
"We stayed in the conversation until the end, because the bishops have always been adamant about the need for genuine health care reform and want to see health care reform happen, Saile said." - MSNBC, 11/2009
And they didn't mean less oversight, but more. The ONLY complaint I have ever heard from Catholic leaders regarded abortion/contraception provisions (which Jim seems unconcerned about). Can you cite a single quote showing Vatican opposition to the very idea of nationalized health care, in this country or any other?
I find it interesting that whenever the news subject is Obamacare, Jim feels compelled, like Pavlov's Dog, to remind us what's wrong with the Repub plan, using Democrat language. Even the abortion/contraceptive provisions are of little interest to him.
When people demand something free from the gov't, this is a backdoor way of saying they want some other chump to pay their bills. I think we have become a nation of thieves, from paupers to the rich & famous.
U.N. Universal Declaration of Human Rights[sic], Article 25:
"Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control."
Similar language is found in Catholic Social Teaching.
To Prolific How dare you judge me! You missed my point altogether. I dismiss you as someone who is ignorant. I am not going to defend my position to you.
Stick with your N. Ireland Roman Catholic hospitals. They're required to promote life. Government, Methodist, Lutheran Presbyterian and Baptist hospitals are a mixed bag often erring on the side of death.
There is no abortion allowed in N. Ireland so candidates go to England for health service "terminations" paid for by...you know who. Recent exposures reveled hospitals were "illegally" carrying out abortions because parents where choosing the sex & wether or not to end the life. Abortion, when introduced, was was supposed to be authorized by two docs & only under the most restricted Circumstances but now,under a vail of secrecy, it is generally accepted that anything goes & any pretence will do. I try not to dwell on it as I find it grievous to think of these little ones without a voice are being murdered without a second thought.
Cliff, what do they do in the United Kingdom about abortion coverage? The Republicans had an excellent chance of having a say and universal health care, since it is basically their idea that is being implemented,Republican Origins of Democratic Health Care Provision. That is before their new program no doubt sponsored by insurance companies and some of the medical profession, became: 1. Don't get sick. 2. If you do get sick, die quickly.
Modern, civilized countries have universal health care. Some of them no doubt can implement it better than others.
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frank: "
mike
we had a former homosexual speak at our church awhile back...."
