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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  9/2/2014
Choice News FRIDAY, MAR 9, 2012  |  500 comments
Gay marriage driven by elites, not the people
Redefining marriage is not being driven by the people, it is being pushed by a liberal elite who want to feel superior over the rest of us, a commentator says.

Brendan O’Neill says homosexual marriage is a tool of the elite – a litmus test of cosmopolitan values – rather than a demand of the people.

It is a way for its backers to “look down with undiluted snobbery” on people who believe marriage should be between a man and a woman, he writes.


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
www.christian.org.uk

Attitude Toward Homosexuality?
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News Item4/11/12 7:41 PM
Dictionary | Scotland  Find all comments by Dictionary
BB wrote:
"Bogus"? Means counterfeit, sham???
....
No dunderhead. Bogus means,

"false, not real or not legal"

So for instance

"On investigation, his claim was found to be bogus..."

"She produced some bogus documents to support her application..." etc.

So Mike's use to state that your interpretation of Romans 1 is false or bogus is quite correct!

500

News Item4/11/12 7:13 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
BB wrote:
"Bogus"? Means counterfeit, sham???
Tell you what Mike you call me George Whitefield and I'll call you John Wesley! Or we can do the 5th century version I'll be Augustine and you can be Pelagius?
---
Why will you not deal with what Scripture says? Is keeping the tulip patch well watered more important? You are wiser than that.
499

News Item4/11/12 5:41 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Just Asking wrote:
Ah
So I was right John.
Nothing like commending yourself, Presby.

Tell me this, because all this highbrow theology has to actually work in practise or it is just armchair theologian nonsense.
Have you read Pilgrim's Progress? If not, why not? What was it that caused Christian to "flee from the City of Destruction", seeking answers when he became convinced that the "wages of sin is death"? Hmmmmmm?

Was Bunyan "indwelt" by the Spirit at this point? Or was the Spirit working in his heart, causing a trembling before the holy God he had angered by his ungodly life?

I realise that the sensible answer to these questions will blow your theory right out of the water, but you must needs consider this, and every other testimony, of real life conversions, where the Spirit has worked a work before the sinner has repented and been justified.

498

News Item4/11/12 5:23 PM
Understanding  Find all comments by Understanding
Just Asking wrote:
Ah
So I was right John.
You believe that the regeneration is worked from a remote location - by remote control...
Ah back to your puny localised deity who could not do anything without being near and who half enters an unregenerate person (even though the sinner is a God hating rebel, a sin lover, estranged from the thrice holy God and hellbound) and then manages to squeeze the rest himself in after the sinner believes; presumably depending on how thin or fat he is.

What sort of god do you worship who can be remote from anything? Certainly not the God of the Bible!

You call yourself reformed, you pathetic miscreant?! Go read Charnock on the attributes to get a worthy conception of the God of the Bible. God has given you a few grey cells between your ears to use. Save them from complete atrophy by using them.

Just Asking wrote:
Do you still believe this verse?
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his"
Every believer is indwelt by the Spirit. That is all that this verse says. What is there in it NOT to believe?
497

News Item4/11/12 5:06 PM
Just Asking  Find all comments by Just Asking
John UK wrote:
What you are trying vainly to say is that regeneration is accomplished by the Spirit indwelling
Ah
So I was right John.
You believe that the regeneration is worked from a remote location - by remote control.

You believe in the twofold visit version then John.

Once remotely from a distance of X feet the Spirit calls and regenerates!!

Then

Second visit He comes to indwell!!

This is what you believe eh John.

BTW
Can you just explain where you and your "team" find this in the Bible.

BTW.2
Can you also suggest where the Spirit goes after His first visit, and how long is it between His two visits?

BTW.3
Do you also believe that when the Spirit leaves after the first visit - the sinner who without the Spirit at this stage (in the flesh) can he spiritually discern, is he dead in sin and still at enmity with God.

OR Besides regeneration - Is he also able to believe and repent under his own steam?

PS;
Do you still believe this verse?
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his"

496

News Item4/11/12 4:15 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
BB wrote:
Paul teaches indwelling as I have repeated many times.
Indwelling sure; but not indwelling as a prerequisite to faith. You've not shown one verse to support that. Every Christian is indwelt by the Spirit of God. What you are trying vainly to say is that regeneration is accomplished by the Spirit indwelling, and that this comes first before anything else. And yet you still want to say that justification comes later. Man your ordo is all over the place.
495

News Item4/11/12 4:06 PM
Understanding  Find all comments by Understanding
BB wrote:
Thats a lie John. Christians should tell the truth.
What is it when one makes assertions for which no evidence can be produced? Yes, that's right A LIE. What does that make you?

BB wrote:
Paul teaches ..Here it is again. Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.....
See many other refs which I have posted below.
This is a passage addressed to Christians viz. those who are already indwelt. Where in the passage does it say anything about the unregenerate being indwelt to bring them to faith?

See! Just another devilish LIE! Adding to scripture ! Who is your daddy?

494

News Item4/11/12 3:58 PM
BB  Find all comments by BB
Mike wrote:
Bogus
"Bogus"? Means counterfeit, sham???

Tell you what Mike you call me George Whitefield and I'll call you John Wesley! Or we can do the 5th century version I'll be Augustine and you can be Pelagius?

___________

John UK wrote:
you have not produced one verse of scripture to prove your theory of indwelling before faith.
Thats a lie John. Christians should tell the truth.

Paul teaches indwelling as I have repeated many times.
Here it is again. Please read carefully.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.....

See many other refs which I have posted below.

493

News Item4/11/12 3:46 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
1. Correct. Incorrect.
2. A repentant sinner is not dead in sin.
3. John 16:27
27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
4. It is the Spirit that convicts of sin - OF UNBELIEF.
5. It is the LORD JESUS CHRIST, not Jesus!
6. Be anxious for nothing!
7. The word is arminian, named after Jacob Harmensen.
7a. Every thing I say I can produce scripture to prove it. However, you have not produced one verse of scripture to prove your theory of indwelling before faith. And what's more, you never will, because there isn't one text in the whole Bible which teaches that.
492

News Item4/11/12 3:28 PM
Bible Believer  Find all comments by Bible Believer
John UK wrote:
(1) arminists will remain to proclaim

(2) promising that those who repent and put their trust in the Saviour will receive....

(3) the promised Holy Ghost, who will come to indwell

(4) after successfully bringing them to their knees in remorse for sin and enlightening them as to the truth,

(5) believe on God's Son, the Lord Jesus Christ,

(6) indwell the newborn believer;

(7) and if this is arminist theology

(1) As I have told you before John there is no such word as "arminist" This is part of your deception!

(2) So the Arminian human action you teach and describe brings salvation?
Even though the sinner cannot discern spiritually, is the enemy of God and dead in sin.

(3) John now teaches that God the Holy Spirit comes as a reward for the sinners actions??? The RCC works based theory!

(4) Only now do they perceive sin and their need of a Saviour?
I wonder if regeneration ever comes into this hypothesis?

(5) Ah Jesus does eventually get a part to play in this scenario???

(6) Ah regeneration at last!! Phew I was worried there!

(7) So this is the "arminist" - John's invention and theory??? Confusing to say the least.

Why not just stick with Scripture instead John?

491

News Item4/11/12 3:11 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Rom1 wrote:
Oh Mike;
---(Arminian) ---
(1) I assume from this statement that you have been a converted Christian from the day you were born?
Also that everybody all 7 billion of us are converted believers?
Rom 1:18ff clearly identifies the reprobate unbeliever. ... Also Total Depravity being a Calvinist doctrine - you clearly advocate a lesser power in sin and a lesser power in the dominion ..."But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1Cor 2:14.
(2) This also is the Arminian doctrine of man-power. Man you are saying can reject his salvation! This God, This Christ and this Holy Spirit you proclaim are weak failures beaten by the average sinner. You have ditched sovereignty!! Does "Potter" and "clay" mean nothing but rhetoric??? in Scripture?
Bogus. Rom 1:18ff speaks of the unconverted to whom light has been gived but rejected, though it has been made clear. You incorrectly assume no light can be given unbelievers, thus you deny God's sovereign right to do so, and you deny the very words themselves. The rejecters are given over to uncleanness, to vile affections, to a reprobate mind as a consequence. (1:24-28)
490

News Item4/11/12 3:02 PM
Understanding  Find all comments by Understanding
Bible Believer wrote:
Thankyou Satan. I see you are still at large.
...
He is your daddy and that's why you are on SA to vex the saints.

John UK wrote:
.....I can only regard it as mighty fine and worthy of all acceptation
489

News Item4/11/12 2:47 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Rom1 wrote:
I usually avoid using the "A" word (Arminian) with you because you have rejected it in past.
BUT...
In the entire world, there is only one non-Arminian, and that is Presby, who alone holds forth as the sole Flag Flyer. When he departs this world for another one, his beliefs will go with him, and only arminists will remain to proclaim the gospel to the lost, promising that those who repent and put their trust in the Saviour will receive the same gift the disciples received on the 50th day, namely, the promised Holy Ghost, who will come to indwell them permanently as adopted children of God, after successfully bringing them to their knees in remorse for sin and enlightening them as to the truth, which work he does not do for every man, but in accordance with his grace and purpose and sovereign will, he brings them to believe on God's Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, and believing, they are justified, adopted and sealed by the Spirit, when he comes to indwell the newborn believer; and if this is arminist theology then I can only regard it as mighty fine and worthy of all acceptation.
488

News Item4/11/12 2:36 PM
Bible Believer  Find all comments by Bible Believer
Understanding wrote:
A very good explanation of the nonsense you post up.
Thankyou Satan. I see you are still at large.

But we Christians have been forewarned and forearmed by our Master Jesus, the Son of God.

He teaches us....
Matt 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

487

News Item4/11/12 2:29 PM
Understanding  Find all comments by Understanding
Rom1 wrote:
...."But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1Cor 2:14.
...
A very good explanation of the nonsense you post up.
486

News Item4/11/12 2:06 PM
Rom1  Find all comments by Rom1
Mike wrote:
(1) "Manifest in them" means it has been made to be clearly seeable to them

(2) It is a matter of refusing the light that has been given.

Oh Mike;
I usually avoid using the "A" word (Arminian) with you because you have rejected it in past.

BUT
(1) I assume from this statement that you have been a converted Christian from the day you were born?
Also that everybody all 7 billion of us are converted believers?
Rom 1:18ff clearly identifies the reprobate unbeliever. You have vested too much power and knowledge in the sinner in his natural estate. Also Total Depravity being a Calvinist doctrine - you clearly advocate a lesser power in sin and a lesser power in the dominion of sin. That also is an Arminian concession to people power.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1Cor 2:14.

(2) This also is the Arminian doctrine of man-power. Man you are saying can reject his salvation! This God, This Christ and this Holy Spirit you proclaim are weak failures beaten by the average sinner. You have ditched sovereignty!! Does "Potter" and "clay" mean nothing but rhetoric??? in Scripture?

485

News Item4/11/12 9:22 AM
Questions  Find all comments by Questions
pleopost wrote:
....So after the ascension of Christ, when according to Seaton the Spirit came with authority to confer new gifts and indwell a soul?
Thats Biblical! EG: Indwelling is new!
Not according to Seaton! If you're not Seaton, check out the postings by dwellology, Post pentecost, Presby - these being just some of the monikers used by him.

pleopost wrote:
NB: After Glorification and Pentecost.
Where do the Bible or the reformed commentators say anything about it being essential for the Spirit to indwell?..
Read the question! It was not merely about indwelling. But, indwelling of sinners to bring them to faith!

pleopost wrote:
The truly Reformed always teach Bible doctrines....
That's a matter of opinion! Not one I share!
484

News Item4/11/12 5:54 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
It is you assumes failure on the Holy Spirit's side when men's rejection is the failure. Note also it is not church witnessing to society spoken of here. It is God himself who has shown that which may be known of himself unto them. "Manifest in them" means it has been made to be clearly seeable to them. They are without excuse because and only because they reject even that which has indeed been made clear.
Quite agree, Mike. As it also says in the Psalm:

Psalms 19:1-3
1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

And still men reject the one, true God!

483

News Item4/10/12 7:40 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Rom1, it is sad that you miss what Scripture plainly says.

You said:
"This does not mean the Holy Spirit has "revealed" the truth to them, and failed."

"These reprobates "know" of God because the church has witnessed to society and the Bible is in plain sight for all to see."

Rom 1:19 says:
"Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them."

It is you assumes failure on the Holy Spirit's side when men's rejection is the failure. Note also it is not church witnessing to society spoken of here. It is God himself who has shown that which may be known of himself unto them. "Manifest in them" means it has been made to be clearly seeable to them. They are without excuse because and only because they reject even that which has indeed been made clear.

They cannot have the Holy Spirit indwelling, for they do not hold the truth in righteousness. But God has revealed that which may be known of himself, yes even the invisible things of him per v20, and that without the indwelling. It is not that they cannot see without it, it is a matter of refusing the light that has been given.

482

News Item4/10/12 3:33 PM
pleopost  Find all comments by pleopost
Questions asked.

Why does the Spirit have to be situ?

He doesn't! (isn't) Space and time have zero effect in the spiritual realm.

Is he less than the Father?

Nope! Same as.

What does Seaton?

Who is this Seaton guy?

So after the ascension of Christ, when according to Seaton the Spirit came with authority to confer new gifts and indwell a soul?

Thats Biblical! EG: Indwelling is new! NB: After Glorification and Pentecost.

Where do the Bible or the reformed commentators say anything about it being essential for the Spirit to indwell?

Romans 8, 1Cor 3:16, 2Cor 6:16, Eph 3:17, Col 3:16, 2Tom 1:14, James 4:5, 1John 3:24, 1John 4:12,13,15,16.
The truly Reformed always teach Bible doctrines.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
{Why is Jesus saying this when the Holy Spirit is right there with them?}
# And Why does Mattew Henry say of this Verse, quote; "We have more in this verse concerning the Holy Ghost than in any one verse besides in the Bible"???

481
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