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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  8/31/2014
WEDNESDAY, JAN 11, 2012  |  28 comments  |  2 commentaries
Poll: Pastors oppose evolution, split on earth’s age

Pastors overwhelmingly believe that God did not use evolution to create humans and think Adam and Eve were literal people, according to a recent survey by LifeWay Research.

The survey of 1,000 American Protestant pastors also found that ministers are almost evenly split on whether the earth is thousands of years old.


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 28 user comment(s)
News Item1/12/12 1:01 PM
dusty  Find all comments by dusty
Evolution is for NON-Christians.

"Christians" know that God wrote the Bible.

The sort of doubts one observes from eg: the Roman Catholic church, helps us see that the religious reprobate cannot see the truth in Scripture. They have no faith.

Hence...
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

The NON-Christian is worldly both in terms of his/her existence and his/her knowledge.

28

News Item1/12/12 12:10 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Mike wrote:
Neil, thanks for the info.
Glad to help. It seems to me that Hubble's Law, relied on by cosmologists today, is wide open to logical objection. Consider this regression plot of Hubble Constant. The data points are all over the place, yet they ASSUME a linear regression (of a logarithmic plot) is sufficient to describe the function. Maybe it looks pretty. Yet from basic algebra, we are taught that an infinite number of curves can pass thru those points, as Dr. Gordon Clark observed. Thus, the probability that the line is accurate is the inverse of ∞, namely, zero. Yet they call this science!

Physical equations like this are *chosen*, never discovered, as Clark also observed. Scientists pick the one that appeals to them subjectively, then call it a law of nature.

27

News Item1/12/12 11:32 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Neil, thanks for the info.
26

News Item1/12/12 11:31 AM
jpw  Find all comments by jpw
Neil--this was not a failure of logic.

You give a pill to a kid. They get maimed.

So you tell the docs to give the pills out to all the pregnant women--then their babies get maimed.

This was a success in logic.

It is easier to admit science failed, yes, it would be easier to not care.

But to take the easier way, I would not be honest with myself.......because the science didn't fail, and I would be admitting nothing, except that my conscience is free from caring.

This is the essence of post-modern post-rationalism. It is not the next step in development but the next step in degeneration. When science divorced from conscience had bad outcomes we just decided to throw it all out and give up.

Christ has given us an understanding of creation that runs counter to this conversation--and it is the use of our mind in relation to our conscience and in relation to His law--love thy neighbor, love thy God. It is a very costly way.

25

News Item1/12/12 10:42 AM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
jpw wrote:
Neil,
no---not a failure of science
a failure of conscience
http://www.vaccinetruth.org/thalidomide.htm
You would rather hunt for conspiracies & look for witches to burn, instead of addressing the logical problems in science. I'm not going there.
24

News Item1/12/12 10:12 AM
jpw  Find all comments by jpw
Neil,

no---not a failure of science

a failure of conscience

http://www.vaccinetruth.org/thalidomide.htm

23

News Item1/12/12 7:45 AM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Mike wrote:
“For example, we face the reality that nothing travels faster than the speed of light. And that billions of light years separate us from distinct galaxies."
Mike, NY

Scripture tells us that God stretched out the heavens, I am of the opinion and I trust it is on sound reasoning that since God cannot lie in the literal 6 day creation (I am a young earth believer) He indeed stretched out the heavens and that included light, even from the furtherest seen star, after all was not light a part of creation??? now/today with the heavens stretched out we find light traveling at about 186,000 miles per hour.

Blessings

22

News Item1/12/12 1:05 AM
Brian PCA | Philadelphia  Find all comments by Brian PCA
Hey guys,

Here is a link to Humphrey's explanation of the starlight issue - this is a short article summarizing the main argument of the book.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c005.html

It's actually a very plausible theory, and I would encourage you to read the article.

21

News Item1/12/12 12:03 AM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
jpw wrote:
funny, science can in its cold way describe its mechanisms for preventing life with a pill, describe all its mechanisms for aborting the natural processes of a woman's body for life (which includes the third mechanism which is not in dispute among pill-makers), and the Christian comes along and pontificates on the weaknesses of evolutionists for facing up to the truth.
You bet science is relational.
She can take a pill, the fetus is aborted.
Science is just a pot of benign theories?
Weak.
Its not the incorrect theories that are of grave concern to human-life....its the successful theories made by immoral men.
You're conflating the ethics of applied science with the alleged descriptive powers of theoretical science. In this forum, I have no compulsion to expand the discussion to medical ethics.

But it is manifestly untrue that incorrect theories are not of grave concern to human life – how many have been harmed by pharmacologists' hasty generalizations that their drugs, such as Thalidomide, were safe? Or how about the theories that certain ethnic groups are innately inferior, if not dangerous?

20

News Item1/11/12 11:26 PM
jpw  Find all comments by jpw
funny, science can in its cold way describe its mechanisms for preventing life with a pill, describe all its mechanisms for aborting the natural processes of a woman's body for life (which includes the third mechanism which is not in dispute among pill-makers), and the Christian comes along and pontificates on the weaknesses of evolutionists for facing up to the truth.

You bet science is relational.

She can take a pill, the fetus is aborted.

Science is just a pot of benign theories?

Weak.

Its not the incorrect theories that are of grave concern to human-life....its the successful theories made by immoral men.

19

News Item1/11/12 10:23 PM
Not you, pope  Find all comments by Not you, pope
If an orthodox old-Earth preacher is exegeting Genesis 1, how does he describe our human progression?

"First there were Adam and Eve who fruitfully multiplied and filled the Earth mightily until Noah.

"This full Earth was subsequently wiped out because of sin and through the Great Flood and there were only 8 survivors.

"We conclude the first million years here. Then this pattern was roughly followed another 5,000 times until our current epoch.

"Now anywhere there's soil, we find human remains because there were literally trillions and trillions of people before you and me."

Isn't this a suspect story?

But now 1/2 of preachers think this way?

Hmmm.

18

News Item1/11/12 10:06 PM
CAS | S.Cal  Find all comments by CAS
I believe the below statement supplements what Neil has already been cogently expressing about empiracism in vs. biblical knowledge in several posts:

There is no science to which final appeal can be made; there are only scientists and their various theories. No scientific or observational proof can be given for the uniformity of nature, and much less can experience demonstrate that “the scientific method is the sole gateway to the whole region of knowledge.” On the contrary, a plausible analysis showed that science was incapable of arriving at any truth whatever.

Gordon Clark; A Christian View of Men and Things; p227

17

News Item1/11/12 9:42 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
jpw wrote:
Neil--first question 'yes' and second question---science cannot enlighten us to God by itself. Knowledge of God is relational. I can taste and say it is sour, but to taste and see that the Lord is good, that comes from God … Beyond this we would have to define the term science.
I don't see how a having a ”relationship” with God (I assume you mean a favorable one) redeems science from its limitations. In fact I don't see any connection at all.

“Science” in general is a synonym for knowledge, particularly of nature, but it could be of anything. Knowledge consists of true intellectual propositions, statements of fact. Who offers such propositions (implied by your ”relationship” qualification) is immaterial to the truth of them. Obviously a Christian will believe certain true propositions about Christ, but that is no assurance his unrelated beliefs also will be true.

16

News Item1/11/12 8:07 PM
jpw  Find all comments by jpw
Neil--first question 'yes' and second question---science cannot enlighten us to God by itself. Knowledge of God is relational. I can taste and say it is sour, but to taste and see that the Lord is good, that comes from God. Science devoid of relationship to God is quite limited. (leads to such things as "developments" and "progeress" such as abortifacient pills--science devoid of wisdom has a long track record of causing harm) Christ came to us, as does the Holy Spirit---the bible reveals much--but not with intellect alone but through the Spirit of God.

Man cannot reach God on his own.

But science being dead, is quite an affront to creationism.

Beyond this we would have to define the term science.

15

News Item1/11/12 7:56 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Mike wrote:
How is this determined? How can anything of that distance be claimed, when if true, what is observed may not now be out there at all, and if it is, may be somewhere else entirely.
Stellar Parallax
Note well, this theory of measurement presupposes more basic theories (such as geometry & trigonometry) are valid for the cosmos. As the article states, Red Shift is used for ranging more distant objects, which assumes that Hubble's Law is true everywhere.

Dr. Russell Humphreys has an interesting theory using Relativity to reconcile the size of the cosmos and c (speed of light) with 6-day Creation, but of course it's only a theory & I would not use it to "prove" Scripture to a skeptic. It's in his book "Star Light and Star Time," but some of it's heavy going for me since I don't understand tensor mathematics, though he tries to make it easy.

14

News Item1/11/12 7:47 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
“For example, we face the reality that nothing travels faster than the speed of light. And that billions of light years separate us from distinct galaxies."

I admit ignorance when distance measured in light years is asserted. How is this determined? How can anything of that distance be claimed, when if true, what is observed may not now be out there at all, and if it is, may be somewhere else entirely. I know approx how far it is to the grocery store because I have been there and back. But when someone says a certain galaxy is, oh, 10 billion light years away, I get real skeptical as to whether they have a clue, or are blowing smoke. But I'm somewhat teachable, so any explanations?

13

News Item1/11/12 7:19 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
jpw wrote:
...a clear observation of the world is that it is sin-ridden... a clear observation scientifically is that sod. is a testimony against the human body.
science is a gift to mankind from God, observing and gaining understanding.
"a clear observation of the world is that it is sin-ridden" is true because the Bible tells me so, not science, which cannot reveal "ought", let alone "is."

"science is a gift to mankind from God" Where did you learn this, the Bible? It depends on what you mean by "gift." It certainly isn't a gift in revealing truth outside His revelation, since it has a disastrous record of error which could impugn God's character if it was supposed to be a source of truth. Remember Ptolemaic Geocentrism? Do any doctors still believe the Humoral Theory? Is Classical Mechanics still used by cosmologists? Science has nothing to offer but models of how nature works, which are useful perhaps, but never true. Only in this sense might I call it a "gift."

12

News Item1/11/12 7:11 PM
jpw  Find all comments by jpw
but I would not go as far as to say that science offers nothing. a clear observation of the world is that it is sin-ridden, yet many cling to the idea that they can spiritually evolve the world through their own powers. a clear observation scientifically is that sod. is a testimony against the human body.

science is a gift to mankind from God, observing and gaining understanding. but it is not an end in itself. the end is to know God better. He has revealed Himself through nature and provided, we are without excuse. Yet to have our eyes opened, we need the work of the Holy Spirit as we are spiritually dead.

11

News Item1/11/12 7:06 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
"For example, we face the reality that nothing travels faster than the speed of light."

How does Hanegraaff know this? Has he or anyone else inspected every corner of the cosmos, for all time? Only God can verify such universal truth claims. Science has nothing to report on nature or spiritual questions; it has logically fatal methodological problems which are stubbornly ignored by Christians & atheists alike.

10

News Item1/11/12 7:05 PM
jpw  Find all comments by jpw
One must ask the question why there seems to be a need to mold creationism into the darwinist box?

darwinism is might makes right (survival of the fittest)---I can therefore I should.

the moral dilemmas aren't there.

I can see why people would sway that way, if they have an option and can go for a more darwin-friendly approach, then the moral questions won't come up as often.

Empiricism and objectivity in itself are relation-less and God's approach tends to be relational. We can observe life from afar--but from afar we do not really know it. To know something is to be intricatlly involved in it. This is how a believer is known by God and knows God. This blessed wisdom the world can never know.

9
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