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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  10/25/2014
SATURDAY, DEC 3, 2011  |  53 comments
Church of Scotland rejects proposals to legalise gay marriage

The Church of Scotland has rejected proposals to legalise marriage for gay men and lesbians, claiming the Scottish government's proposals undermine society and the meaning of marriage.

The church, the most influential within Scotland, has added its weight to a growing backlash against same-sex marriage by religious groups. It claimed that allowing gay marriages contradicted the fundamental and historical basis of the institution.

Its intervention is a further blow to Alex Salmond's government, and follows the launch on Wednesday outside the Scottish parliament of a new multi-faith campaign against the reform called Scotland for Marriage led by Scotland's most senior Catholic, Cardinal Keith O'Brien, and a senior Church of Scotland figure, Ann Allen. ...


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
www.guardian.co.uk

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 53 user comment(s)
News Item12/8/11 4:11 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
Sloppy Joe wrote:
Seriously? Only 24 hrs to consult with the Scottish Government on this earth-shattering issue?
I don't know how long the opportunity has been on the Christian Institute website. I only just heard about it tonight, and if I hadn't bothered to inform, then you wouldn't have known about it either. It is not a consultation with government, merely a chance to voice your view, which will possibly be taken into account. Have you done it yet? Or are you just a cynic who has given up?
53

News Item12/8/11 4:01 PM
Sloppy Joe  Find all comments by Sloppy Joe
Seriously? Only 24 hrs to consult with Scotland about this earth-shattering, family-shredding, church-whacking issue?

Sounds like they plan to sweep the few ultra-conservative Christian comments under the rug and do what they want to do anyway:
Make same-sex "marriage" the law of the land.

52

News Item12/8/11 3:16 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
I have just received an e-mail from N. Ireland informing me of the opportunity to fill out a response, which I have done. It says:

"The Scottish Government is consulting on whether to redefine marriage in order to allow two men or two women to marry. The Scottish Government’s “initial view” is that it supports redefining marriage, but it is also listening to all views.
The Christian Institute would encourage as many people as possible to participate in the consultation, which ends on 9 December.
The information provided will be sent directly to the Scottish Government."

If any others would like to do the same, go to the Christian Institute website. It needs to be done tonight.

51

News Item12/8/11 11:06 AM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
Presby wrote:
1. Well! Well! Well!
2. John;
3. Straight to the papal antichrist - How typical of the devout hyper-Weslyan.
4. You really have immersed yourself in the old by works religious theories haven't you John.
5. John your dismissing and insulting the Covenanters...
1. A trinity of wells? New religion, P?
2. Named after John Baptist or the brother of James. Biblical.
3. You reckon I'm hyper-Wesleyan?
4. Those that hold to works salvation are not saved. Therefore you are saying that I am not saved.
5. Considering point 4, my comments concerning them is tame compared to you calling a child of God a child of the devil.

Presby, it is time for you to get your life into shape. What a nonsense when a Calvinistic cult rejects, insults, and dismissses true believers, because they don't see eye to eye on every point of doctrine. You even decry fellow Calvinists as unconverted because they don't obey your documents and manuscripts, nor baptise the non-elect when babies.

I don't find this kind of attitude from the Reformed Baptist side of the fence. You've been brainwashed P, and it is time you got your Bible out again and studied it for yourself. The fruit of the indwelling Spirit begins with love....

50

News Item12/8/11 10:30 AM
Presby  Find all comments by Presby
John UK wrote:
Amazing! What kind of man is this? He now wants me to consult the dead and apologise to them for behaving like Catholics
Well! Well! Well! John;
Straight to the papal antichrist - How typical of the devout hyper-Weslyan.

You really have immersed yourself in the old by works religious theories haven't you John.

John your dismissing and insulting the Covenanters is of course the position of popery and prelacy (the other side) which they sought to bring to an end.

As someone has posted below the Covenanters suffered for their faith and adherence to 'ALL' of Scripture. Whereas the Roman-Arminian appeals to human resources for their religious philosophies, Traditions and the like. In those formative centuries of the UK, it was Biblical Christianity (Covenanters) versus man-made religions, thence do we find John deep in his affiliation to popery and prelacy.

"The Solemn League and Covenant
Cost Scotland blood - cost Scotland tears:
But it seal`d Freedoms sacred cause -
If thou`rt a slave, indulge thy sneers."
(R.Burns)

49

News Item12/8/11 9:54 AM
Sloppy Joe  Find all comments by Sloppy Joe
John UK wrote:
I suppose that is similar to when there was a Catholic on the throne in England, and all the Christians who refused the unbiblical mass and denounced transubstantiation were put to death, often by fire. Difficult days.
Sovereign God seats and unseats kings and queens. We're to obey these sinners as did David's subjects of old.

But Scotland presumed that God wasn't their ultimate sovereign and chaos reigned because everyone did what was right in his own eyes. Judges 17:6

This is the replay in our day: Stick a fork in Presbyterianism, it's finally done.

48

News Item12/8/11 3:44 AM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
Scottish Covenanters wrote:
"Between 1638 and 1688 Scotland was in an almost constant state of civil unrest because many people refused to accept the Royal decree that the king was head of the church. When those who refused signed a Covenant, which stated that only Jesus Christ could command such a position, they were effectively signing their own death warrants. And so began one of the bloodiest periods of Scottish history, the Killing Times."
I suppose that is similar to when there was a Catholic on the throne in England, and all the Christians who refused the unbiblical mass and denounced transubstantiation were put to death, often by fire. Difficult days.
47

News Item12/7/11 9:52 PM
Sloppy Joe  Find all comments by Sloppy Joe
Apparently Presbyterians have been dismantling their side of the house from the get-go.

First through bloodsheda, of late through complete and utter apathy to the Word of God.

Now they sit in the rubble and call Gay Presbyterianism good.

46

News Item12/7/11 7:56 PM
Scottish Covenanters  Find all comments by Scottish Covenanters
"Between 1638 and 1688 Scotland was in an almost constant state of civil unrest because many people refused to accept the Royal decree that the king was head of the church. When those who refused signed a Covenant, which stated that only Jesus Christ could command such a position, they were effectively signing their own death warrants. And so began one of the bloodiest periods of Scottish history, the Killing Times."

"Better that Scotland were hacked by Claverhouse for cleaving to the Lord, than that she should be flattered by infidels for her gradual departure from the faith. Let not the blood of the Covenanters be spilt in vain...
I am glad you are writing on Scots Worthies. Oh, that Scotland may stand fast in this evil day!" (Charles Spurgeon, probably written to Andrew Bonar).

WILLIAM GUTHERIE
(17th Century Scottish Covenanter preacher and author)
"Every one who is come to years of understanding and heareth this gospel, is obliged to take to heart his own condition, and God's gracious offer of peace and salvation through Jesus Christ, and speedily to flee from the wrath to come, by accepting and closing with this offer, heartily acquiescing therein as a satisfying way for the salvation of perishing sinners."

45

News Item12/7/11 5:24 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
Buchan wrote:
John,
It seems that Presby has shown that he is a liberal Presbyterian after all, and profoundly disagrees with the actual Covenanters and framers of Presbyterianism:-

Sadly, this is not a good thing as, like all liberals, he forms his theology out of experience only and not from the Bible. Feelings, opinions and experiences are their authority. How sad that he does not form his theology from the Bible which plainly teaches what these misguided men, for all their backbone, rejected (contrary to the teachings of Christ):-

It is a strange contradiction that he thinks you should apologise to dead men for rightly rejecting the errors of the Covenanters, when he also rejects them as well.
No wonder he put RP into a tailspin.

Aye aye, Buchan. I think he ought to change moniker to E. Presley instead of Presby. I would not dare to use "Reformed Baptist" as mine own moniker for fear of misrepresenting the RB's, whose doctrine I generally accept as biblical.

Unfortunately, with regard to the topic, I know insufficent history of these Covenanters to really comment on them. Were they the original Presbys? Or yet another splinter group who no longer exist? It is shame they never followed the Bible, though.

44

News Item12/7/11 5:12 PM
RP  Find all comments by RP
The most dangerous enemy we can have is the enemy that we trust. The enemy we recognize, while dangerous, cannot possibly cause us as much harm as the one who has gained our trust and confidence.

Romans 16:17-18 "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

43

News Item12/7/11 4:58 PM
Buchan  Find all comments by Buchan
John,

It seems that Presby has shown that he is a liberal Presbyterian after all, and profoundly disagrees with the actual Covenanters and framers of Presbyterianism:-

Presby wrote:
the Covenanters who at least tried and succeeded for a short while. By there (sic) action ecclesiastical history found out that this was not the way God chose.
Sadly, this is not a good thing as, like all liberals, he forms his theology out of experience only and not from the Bible. Feelings, opinions and experiences are their authority. How sad that he does not form his theology from the Bible which plainly teaches what these misguided men, for all their backbone, rejected (contrary to the teachings of Christ):-

Presby wrote:
By there (sic) action ecclesiastical history found out that this was not the way God chose. And we today would not have known this unless courageous Christians such as Puritans and Covenanter tried it.
It is a strange contradiction that he thinks you should apologise to dead men for rightly rejecting the errors of the Covenanters, when he also rejects them as well.

No wonder he put RP into a tailspin.

42

News Item12/7/11 4:07 PM
RP  Find all comments by RP
Presby wrote:
By their action ecclesiastical history found out that this was not the way God chose.
I would appreciate clarification here or should I say, You have clarified your position. Certainly wherein they confessed their sins, because all sin, the Lord was faithful and just to forgive them their sins and cleanse them from all unrighteousness. But the remnant of the United Societies took up the same Covenants again in the Auchensaugh Deed, the best pattern for a renovation. They left out the civil portion other then for confession of national sin. As a small remnant they bound their souls to God to continue their ecclesiastic duties to Him and their brethren. No Covenanter believes the covenants a mute point or that these brave men and women died Heb. 12:4 for a way other than God's. No they were/are Christians "men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof." Where ever they have been scattered in this dark day Isa.26:20
41

News Item12/7/11 3:48 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
Presby wrote:
Apologise John to the Covenanters who at least tried and succeeded for a short while.
Amazing! What kind of man is this? He now wants me to consult the dead and apologise to them for behaving like Catholics.

And then he calls me an arminist with popish tendencies.

Too much haggis, Presby. You really must cut down on that and get your fruit and veggies daily.

40

News Item12/7/11 3:42 PM
Buchan  Find all comments by Buchan
RP wrote:
The then Scottish Church was constantly examining themselves as to their faithfulness
Why post the link and then demonstrate that you abjectly failed to read and absorb Rutherford's testimony?
39

News Item12/7/11 3:22 PM
Presby  Find all comments by Presby
John UK wrote:
Thank you Buchan, for sharing your knowledge and thoughts on this subject. The more I grasp what these folks were attempting to do, the more I see in it popish behaviour, and a desire to dominate
Good grief John
You are insulting the Covenanters of Scotland with this historically ignorant insult. MANY of whom died for the cause of Christ.

These courageous Christians had the backbone to try to get government onto a Biblical form, unlike the many whimps in the pew and pulpit of modern times.

Apologise John to the Covenanters who at least tried and succeeded for a short while. By there action ecclesiastical history found out that this was not the way God chose. And we today would not have known this unless courageous Christians such as Puritans and Covenanter tried it.

Or does your Arminian convictions put you on the side of the papal antichrist?

38

News Item12/7/11 3:14 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
RP wrote:
There are those who fear an oath and others like Mr.Rutherford that fear not to keep it. The then Scottish Church was constantly examining themselves as to their faithfulness 1 Cor.11:31-32 to the Covenant of Redemption as regarded their loving obedience to Christ; keeping his commandments and loving the brethren. His reference "we were more to set up a state opposite to a state; more upon forms, citations, leading of witnesses, suspensions from benefices, than spiritually to persuade and work upon the conscience," what Presby eluded to. These Covenanters were Noblemen, Barons, Knights,Gentlemen, Citizens, Burgesses, Ministers of the Gospel and Commons of all sorts in the three kingdoms. They acted as one people in their place, calling and station Ps.79:9
Wherefore Mr Rutherford's fear? Was he not familiar with James 5:12?
37

News Item12/7/11 3:05 PM
RP  Find all comments by RP
Isaiah 40:10-12 "Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.
He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young. Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?

There are those who fear an oath and others like Mr.Rutherford that fear not to keep it. The then Scottish Church was constantly examining themselves as to their faithfulness 1 Cor.11:31-32 to the Covenant of Redemption as regarded their loving obedience to Christ; keeping his commandments and loving the brethren. His reference "we were more to set up a state opposite to a state; more upon forms, citations, leading of witnesses, suspensions from benefices, than spiritually to persuade and work upon the conscience," what Presby eluded to. These Covenanters were Noblemen, Barons, Knights,Gentlemen, Citizens, Burgesses, Ministers of the Gospel and Commons of all sorts in the three kingdoms. They acted as one people in their place, calling and station Ps.79:9

36

News Item12/7/11 2:07 PM
Ruthtest  Find all comments by Ruthtest
When our land and church were thus contending for that begun reformation, ...; and there was not then wanting men from among ourselves, men of prelatical spirits, who, with some other time-serving courtiers, did not a little undermine the building; and we, doating too much upon sound parliaments, and lawful general assemblies, fell from our first love, to self-seeking, secret banding, and little fearing the oath of God.

Afterwards, our work in public was too much in sequestration of estates, fining, and imprisoning, more than in a compassionate mournfulness of spirit toward those whom we saw to oppose the work. In our assemblies, we were more to set up a state opposite to a state; more upon forms, citations, leading of witnesses, suspensions from benefices, than spiritually to persuade and work upon the conscience, with the meekness and gentleness of Christ. The glory and royalty of our princely Redeemer and King was trampled on, as any might have seen in our assemblies. ... And if the meekness and gentleness of our Master had got so much place in our hearts, that we might have waited on gainsayers, and parties contrary minded; and we might have driven gently, as our Master Christ, who loves not to over-drive, but 'carries the lambs in his bosom.'

35

News Item12/7/11 1:42 PM
RP  Find all comments by RP
http://www.swrb.com/newslett/actualNLs/ruthtest.htm
34
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