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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  7/29/2014
SATURDAY, OCT 29, 2011  |  500 comments
Jesus' name ruled 'unconstitutional'

A board of county commissioners in North Carolina is asking the Supreme Court for help: Its members don't believe they should have to forbid volunteers from mentioning the name of Jesus in prayers offered before their meetings.

But the American Civil Liberties Union and Americans United for Separation of Church and State are standing by their victory in a U.S. circuit court decision that states even "a solitary reference to Jesus Christ" in invocations before the Forsyth County Board of Commissioners' meetings could do "violence to the pluralistic and inclusive values that are a defining feature of American public life."

Furthermore, wrote Judge James Harvie Wilkinson III in the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals majority opinion, legislative invocations offered in Jesus' name are inherently "sectarian" and thus should be censored lest they make some attendees feel "uncomfortable, unwelcome and ...


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News Item1/8/12 5:17 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
Piqued my interest wrote:
Well Friends, I must bid you all adieu. My brief excursion on these forums has ended.
Au revoir mon ami.

I am glad you had a brief excursion and explained a lot; I have learnt much.

And if the Spirit grants it, come again and sharpen some iron.

500

News Item1/8/12 5:08 PM
Piqued my interest | UK  Find all comments by Piqued my interest
Well Friends, I must bid you all adieu. My brief excursion on these forums has ended.

I must say I have enjoyed my time here, even though I had no intention of participating. But I felt RP's historical inaccuracies could not go unchallenged.

For anyone who is interested to persue further the historical facts surrounding the struggle for religious freedom in England in the period from the Long Parliament to the Restoration, I cannot recommend highly enough the 4 volume work of W K Jordan entitled "The development of religious toleration in England". This reveals in great detail the desperate attempts by the Scottish Presbys to foist their polity on the English peoples even though there was little or no sympathy in the nation towards them. We find for instance that though the Presbys pretended to try and find accommodation with the Independents, Robert Baillie's correspondence reveals that they were in reality only waiting for the Scottish army to invade England to force a Presbyterian settlement!!

I am aware that there is a deeply felt need on the part of some Presbys to rewrite history. But hopefully there are enough of us interested in history to check their attempts.

The Lord bless all who seek to maintain biblical and historical truth.

Goodbye to you all!

499

News Item1/8/12 4:32 PM
Angela Wittman | Southern Illinois  Find all comments by Angela Wittman
Thanks Lurker.
498

News Item1/8/12 3:51 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
Romans 10:12-17 KJV
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Whether Acts 2:38, Acts 16:31, wherever in the Bible you turn, it all slots together.

"...the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." Ah yes, these are wonderful words of encouragement to any sinner anywhere, burdened with guilt and wondering if he can come to Christ or not.

"Him that cometh to me, I will in no wise cast out." says the Lord Jesus Christ.

There is meat and milk in this verse and its context, but milk is for the unsaved sinner, and meat is for those weaned already.

497

News Item1/8/12 3:07 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Nassovian wrote:
John Adams "legal" National Day of Prayer.May 9, 1798:
This thread has been off topic for so long that I failed to realize your post was actually topical.

Thanks for your post and thank God that in days gone by this once great and blessed country actually had a few God fearing people in high places.

Too bad we can't say that any more.

. . .

Angela,

I think Observer counts you among those "we are right glad to have fellowship with".

496

News Item1/8/12 2:05 PM
Angela Wittman | Southern Illinois  Find all comments by Angela Wittman
Dear Observer,
I'm not quite sure what to make of your comment to me; but what I was referring to is the contentious attitude displayed by some who comment here. And I was reminded of Paul's admonishment to the Corinthian church in 1 Cor., chapter 1.
495

News Item1/8/12 1:51 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Let's see here....

Eph 4:4-6 [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

Is there a paedobaptist who can explain how this one NC baptism is the eighth day male circumcision in the flesh God enjoined to Abraham and His seed in Genesis 17? And don't forget this from Paul....

Gal 5:1-4 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

If you can't bridge the gap, then from whence will you appeal to justify the baptism of infants when the consistent command is....

Act 2:38 Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

494

News Item1/8/12 1:37 PM
Nassovian | Northeast. U.S.A.  Find all comments by Nassovian
John Adams "legal" National Day of Prayer.May 9, 1798:

"Whereas the safety and prosperity of nations ultimately and essentially depend on the protection and blessing of Almighty God, and the national acknowledgment of this truth is not only an indispensable duty which the people owe to him, but one also the natural influence of which is favourable to the promotion of that morality and piety without which social happiness cannot exist, nor the blessings of a free government be enjoyed...I do hereby recommend... that Thursday the 26th day of April next be observed, throughout the United States, as a day of solemn humiliation, fasting and prayer:

...That the citizens of these States, ...offer their devout addresses to the Father of mercies, agreeably to those forms or methods which they have severally adopted as the most suitable and becoming:

That Christian congregations do, with the deepest humility, acknowledge before God the manifold sins and transgressions with which we are justly chargeable as individuals and as a nation; beseeching Him, at the same time, of His infinite grace us the Redeemer of the world, freely to remit all our offences, and to incline us, by His Holy Spirit, to that sincere repentance and reformation which may afford us reason to hope..."

493

News Item1/8/12 1:12 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
Observer wrote:
Angela, there are many Presbyterians who have moved on from the attitudes held during the first and second reformations, and we are right glad to have fellowship with them!
However, sadly there are groups who are stuck in a time warp and they bring a most distateful attitude to these forums and in their dealings with their fellow Presbyterians.
I wonder if our dear sister will respond truthfully to Observer's post? I sure hope so.
492

News Item1/8/12 12:24 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
tidbit wrote:
This may also explain why some Presbys on these forums display such disdain for Baptists, and sometimes even vent their spleen. They are not here to learn but to bring the heretics into the fold.
And, naive me, believing that everyone who professed Sola Scriptura actually meant it; their conscience would be convinced by it. But in fact the paleo hardliners have their own three legged stool of scripture, tradition and teachers much like the RCC.
BTW wrote:
By the way Lurker, you cannot copy and paste the e-texts while viewing it on Google or the Archive, but if you download the file in pdf format you should then be able to copy and paste.
Hope this helps.
It does help. Thanks, bro.
Angela Wittman wrote:
Without having viewed all 900+ comments please let me say that I am Reformed Presbyterian and wholly repent of having a prideful or superior attitude. It really is unbecoming to the Gospel and more than likely grieves the Holy Spirit of God.
I've read and appreciated your comments over the years and have never sensed anything but an attitude of Christian compassion and charity. May God continue to bless you as you fulfill His calling in your life.
491

News Item1/8/12 12:11 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
didntyouknow wrote:
REGENERATION AND BAPTISM
BY REV. JOHN CHARLES RYLE
10. “But do not all infants receive baptism worthily...? and are they not consequently all regenerated, as a matter of course, the moment they are baptized?”
“Certainly not. No infant is of itself worthy to receive grace, because, as the Catechism says, it is “born in sin and a child of wrath.” It can only be received into the Church and baptized on the faith and profession of its parents or sponsors.”
Did you not know that every anglican minister had to accept every of the 39 articles of religion and the liturgy in order to be a minister? It was all written out and folks had to abide by it.

I recommend you read some of his commentary on John's Gospel. Most highly regarded by the vast majority of the Christian Church. Well, except you, that is.

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 2:22 KJV

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

490

News Item1/8/12 11:13 AM
didntyouknow  Find all comments by didntyouknow
John UK wrote:
Ahhhhh, give me the warmth of a man like John Ryle,
Or someone like Charles Spurgeon,
REGENERATION AND BAPTISM
BY REV. JOHN CHARLES RYLE

10. “But do not all infants receive baptism worthily...? and are they not consequently all regenerated, as a matter of course, the moment they are baptized?”

“Certainly not. No infant is of itself worthy to receive grace, because, as the Catechism says, it is “born in sin and a child of wrath.” It can only be received into the Church and baptized on the faith and profession of its parents or sponsors.”

Teaching of Thomas Aquinas who was a Catholic theologian 1225–1274.

“And therefore Christ’s Passion was not only a sufficient but a superabundant atonement for the sins of the human race; according to 1 John 2:2: “He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.” Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, Part 3, Q 48.2.

1 John 2:22 “He is the propitiation for our sins, for some efficaciously, but for all sufficiently, because the price of his blood is sufficient for the salvation of all: but it has no efficacy except for the elect because of an impediment.” Thomas Aquina, “Commentaria 1 Tim. 2:1-6a,” in Omnes D. Pauli Apostoli Ep

489

News Item1/8/12 10:24 AM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
I understand now that Presby regards me as unregenerate. He has to, or he himself will be regarded as unregenerate by his own folks. What a sad state of affairs when the writings of men takes precedent over the writings of God.

With regard to the text 1 John 2:2, the meaning is clear. But some come back with LOGIC, rather than accept what God has said. "But it CAN'T mean that, because of blah blah blah blah!"

The same thing happens with other texts from the other side. Such as John 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. "But it CAN'T logically mean that because of blah blah blah blah!"

Ahhhhh, give me the warmth of a man like John Ryle, who believed all the scriptures, and was not afraid to preach from any text without tearing it apart or wresting it to conform to some manmade system of theology.

Or someone like Charles Spurgeon, who accepted that the atonement of the Saviour was of infinite value with a finite application, simply because of the divine person accomplishing it.

And I too reckon the term "Westminster Divines" should be eradicated from the saints' vocabulary. It gives the impression they knew what they were talking about.

I'm glad we shall be 'stripped naked' on the Day of Judgment.

488

News Item1/8/12 9:52 AM
Observer  Find all comments by Observer
Angela Wittman wrote:
Without having viewed all 900+ comments please let me say that I am Reformed Presbyterian and wholly repent of having a prideful or superior attitude. It really is unbecoming to the Gospel and more than likely grieves the Holy Spirit of God.
Angela, there are many Presbyterians who have moved on from the attitudes held during the first and second reformations, and we are right glad to have fellowship with them!

However, sadly there are groups who are stuck in a time warp and they bring a most distateful attitude to these forums and in their dealings with their fellow Presbyterians.

487

News Item1/8/12 9:18 AM
Angela Wittman | Southern Illinois  Find all comments by Angela Wittman
Without having viewed all 900+ comments please let me say that I am Reformed Presbyterian and wholly repent of having a prideful or superior attitude. It really is unbecoming to the Gospel and more than likely grieves the Holy Spirit of God.
486

News Item1/8/12 8:58 AM
BTW  Find all comments by BTW
By the way Lurker, you cannot copy and paste the e-texts while viewing it on Google or the Archive, but if you download the file in pdf format you should then be able to copy and paste.
Hope this helps.
485

News Item1/8/12 8:19 AM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
Lurker wrote:
I remember well, John. At the time I knew nothing about the presbys and I'm still just beginning to learn but what I'm learning so far leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.
I read a bit more @ the SWRB site about paleo vs. neo presbys. The sheer arrogance which reeks from the article is disgusting. No wonder I frequently sense an elitist attitude from the presbys.
Jesus said: "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." But the presbys, like the Pharisees of old, would increase the burden of all they can affect with layers of the letter of their laws and covenants which kill the simplicity of Christ.
If the presby second reformation was of God how is it that it didn't flourish and spread over the face of the earth with God going before?
The vernacular bible, free of the dictates of church and state, is what flourished and overspread the earth and continues to do so to this day. That is what God blessed.
The evidence is stacking up bro, and indeed a bitter taste is the result. Yet truth becomes clearer and even more precious.

I wonder what the NP's have to say about the PP's?

484

News Item1/8/12 7:34 AM
Angela Wittman | Southern Illinois  Find all comments by Angela Wittman
I haven't read all 500 comments, but would offer this consideration: Christ's church is bigger than any one denomination and frankly the attitude of trying to "convert" others to one belief (or sect or denomination when they clearly already are Christian and sound in doctrine) has had me avoid interacting in this forum. We are all works in progress and a little Christian charity would be welcome.
483

News Item1/8/12 6:59 AM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
tidbit wrote:
Historically, Presbys have viewed all Baptists as heretics and believing as they do in a State Church they have never been slow to use the Magistrate to put heretics to death. So Baptists and other non-conformists have to be aware of history to ensure that it does not repeat itself!
This may also explain why some Presbys on these forums display such disdain for Baptists. They are not here to learn but to bring the heretics into the fold
tidbit

I can well identify with and appreciate what you post.

Having been raised in a Roman Catholic family, and now saved by the grace of God, I will never be a Roman Catholic again ever, I can see heartbreaking similarities between the RCC and some/many Calvinistic Presbyterians, for one their bent on being the offical state church (a spiritual whore) to persecute those they label as heretics.

AND here is what seems to lie at the core of their hostility against Baptist-type believers and non-conformists. Everyone of us with genuine testimony of new birth has literally come to know God in Salvation, even the least of us and belong to Christ and growing in our knowledge of Him and obedience of faith, we expose as false those who only know things about Him but not Him.

482

News Item1/8/12 6:41 AM
tidbit  Find all comments by tidbit
Michael Hranek wrote:
Did I really read someone calling Spurgeon a heretic?

3 John 1:9,10
John 9:24-34
My apologies to all. The "Outside the Camp" crew are apparently non-denominational, not Presbyterian. So I retract my previous post. There is nevertheless plenty of other evidence on the web of Presbys trying to outdo each other.

However, it is still true that historically, Presbys have viewed all Baptists as heretics. Believing as they do in a State Church, where they have been in control of such they have never been slow to use the Magistrate to put heretics to death. So Baptists and other non-conformists have to know their history to ensure that history does not repeat itself!

This may also explain why some Presbys on these forums display such disdain for Baptists, and sometimes even vent their spleen. They are not here to learn but to bring the heretics into the fold

481
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