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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  10/25/2014
WEDNESDAY, OCT 26, 2011  |  34 comments
Dawkins: Jesus Would Have Been An Atheist
In a recent interview with the The Guardian’s John Harris, Dawkins when discussing Jesus Christ, said:

“I wrote [an] article called ‘Atheists for Jesus,’ I think it was… Somebody gave me a t-shirt: ‘Atheists for Jesus.’ Well, the point was that Jesus was a great moral teacher and I was suggesting that somebody as intelligent as Jesus would have been an atheist if he had known what we know today.”


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
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· Page 1 ·  Found: 34 user comment(s)
News Item10/28/11 4:51 PM
Alan H | Washington State  Protected NameFind all comments by Alan H
"If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself."
2 Timothy 2:13
34

News Item10/27/11 12:49 PM
TT | TN  Find all comments by TT
Wow, the depths of his willing ignorance is staggering!
33

News Item10/26/11 6:14 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
ZTA wrote:
You're one of the few who can, at least, articulate one version of justification.
Ah yes, the only version.

I commend to you the following two hymns, and please pay particular attention to how this Bernard of Clairvaux viewed the Lord Jesus Christ. Any man who knows and loves HIM could write, if they had the ability, a similar poem about their beloved Saviour.

Jesus, the very thought of Thee

Jesus, Thou Joy of Loving Hearts

Both hymns are here on SermonAudio.com and are worth meditating over, that we might conclude the Christian faith is far more than mere doctrine, but a reconciliation with the Lord God of Heaven.

G'night all!

32

News Item10/26/11 5:34 PM
ZTA  Find all comments by ZTA
John UK wrote:
You're one of the few who can, at least, articulate one version of justification.

Recently heard of a chap who was baptized decades ago living as a Bible Christian. Long after that big day, someone casually mentioned that Jesus, the second Person of the Trinity, is God. This Christian was shocked to hear of this completely-new revelation.

Unlike you, there are many Christians running around out there without a clue who Jesus is. To mention faith alone, justification, imputation, monergism, double-predestination, solas, TULIP, Nicene Creed, WCF, LBCF, L&SC or some other religious jargon would cause their eyes to roll back in their heads as they lapse into a boredom-induced coma. As long as they're saved, they couldn't care less about the details.

31

News Item10/26/11 5:06 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
ZTA wrote:
This brief moment of time when Justification emerged and was considered an issue by some, is over.
On the contrary Ziggy

When in 1979 I, as an ungodly chappy in his 20's, heard for the first time the gospel message that Jesus Christ the Lord of Glory had died for THE UNGODLY, that they might be forgiven and given eternal life as a free gift, I began calling upon the Lord for forgiveness, and that he might fill me with his Spirit and make me a new man. After much prayer, I received full assurance that the Lord had received me as an adopted son, and was filled with enlightenment by his Spirit. I was not able to articulate it then, knowing so little about doctrine or scriptural words, but the truth was that I had been justified by faith in Jesus Christ and had received eternal life by God's grace NOT because of MY works but HIS, and that he had promised to never leave me nor forsake me, being my God in heaven who had left the glory to seek and save that which was lost, namely me, and plenty of other sinners who humbly bow the knee to the Lord Jesus Christ, acknowledging sin and its guilt and penalty, and pleading only the merits of Christ by faith, to receive eternal life.

30

News Item10/26/11 4:42 PM
Street-Preacher  Find all comments by Street-Preacher
BR. HYLES USED TO SAY "NO ONE GOES TO HEAVEN 'HEAD-1st' BUT 'HEART-1st' " !

MEANiNG: "SPIRIT RE-BORN 1st" NOT "SOUL RE-FORM 1st" !

"BUT WITHOUT FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE HIM (GOD): FOR HE THAT COMETH TO GOD MUST BELIEVE THAT HE IS; AND THAT HE IS A REWARDER OF THEM THAT DILIGENTLY SEEK HIM." HEBREWS 11:6

"YEA, A MAN MAY SAY (NOTICE, IT DOESN'T SAY 'GOD MAY SAY' &-OR 'GOD HAS SAID'), THOU HAST FAITH, AND I HAVE WORKS: SHOW ME THY FAITH WITHOUT THY WORKS, AND I WILL SHOW THEE MY FAITH BY MY WORKS." JAMES 2:18

"BUT WILT THOU KNOW, O VAIN MAN, THAT (MAN'S-NOT GOD'S) FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD ?" JAMES 2:20

"FOR AS THE BODY (OF MAN-NOTICE; IT DOESN'T SAY 'THE BODY' [OF GOD]: THAT IS, 'THE BODY' [OF CHRIST])
WITHOUT THE SPIRIT (OF MAN-NOT 'THE SPIRIT' [OF GOD]) IS DEAD,
SO (MAN'S-NOT GOD'S) FAITH WITHOUT (MAN'S-NOT GOD'S) WORKS IS DEAD ALSO." JAMES 2:26

"I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB ? GOD IS NOT THE GOD OF THE DEAD, BUT OF THE LIVING." MATT. 22:32

"HE (CHRIST) IS NOT THE GOD OF THE DEAD (HUMAN FAITH & WORKS), BUT THE GOD OF THE LIVING (GOD'S FAITH & WORKS):

YE (ROMAN-"CATHOLICS") THEREFORE DO GREATLY ERR." MARK 12:27

MAN'S FAITH+WORKS CAN'T SAVE HIM !

**"zta" IS LOST & MUST BE BORN-AGAIN ALA JOHN 3:1-16 !

29

News Item10/26/11 4:12 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Street-Preacher wrote:
---
**"zta" IS LOST & MUST BE BORN-AGAIN ALA JOHN 3:1-16 !**
ZTA needs ask himself if he's a born-again Christian, with "born again" having the biblical meaning. It seems easy enough to understand there is no seeing of the kingdom of God without being born again, per the very words of Christ.

John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Isn't it amazing how often the Lord makes the seemingly complicated, simple? No such thing with religion, however. That's why it needs layers of authorities to interpret.

28

News Item10/26/11 3:30 PM
Street-Preacher  Find all comments by Street-Preacher
THE LORD JESUS CHRIST WOULD'VE BEEN & STILL IS THE ALMIGHTY GOD, GRADE-A, THEIST OF ULTIMATE "BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS" !

"BUT WITHOUT FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE HIM (GOD): FOR HE THAT COMETH TO GOD MUST BELIEVE THAT HE IS; AND THAT HE IS A REWARDER OF THEM THAT DILIGENTLY SEEK HIM." HEBREWS 11:6

"YEA, A MAN MAY SAY (NOTICE, IT DOESN'T SAY 'GOD MAY SAY' &-OR 'GOD HAS SAID'), THOU HAST FAITH, AND I HAVE WORKS: SHOW ME THY FAITH WITHOUT THY WORKS, AND I WILL SHOW THEE MY FAITH BY MY WORKS." JAMES 2:18

"BUT WILT THOU KNOW, O VAIN MAN, THAT (MAN'S--NOT GOD'S) FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD ?" JAMES 2:20
"FOR AS THE BODY (OF MAN--NOTICE; IT DOESN'T SAY 'THE BODY' [OF GOD]: THAT IS, 'THE BODY' [OF CHRIST])
WITHOUT THE SPIRIT (OF MAN--NOT 'THE SPIRIT' [OF GOD]) IS DEAD,
SO (MAN'S--NOT GOD'S) FAITH WITHOUT (MAN'S--NOT GOD'S) WORKS IS DEAD ALSO." JAMES 2:26

"I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB ? GOD IS NOT THE GOD OF THE DEAD, BUT OF THE LIVING." MATTHEW 22:32

"HE (CHRIST) IS NOT THE GOD OF THE DEAD (HUMAN FAITH & WORKS), BUT THE GOD OF THE LIVING (GOD'S FAITH & WORKS):

YE (ROMAN-"CATHOLICS") THEREFORE DO GREATLY ERR." MARK 12:27

**MAN'S FAITH & WORKS WILL NEVER SAVE HIM !

**"zta" IS LOST & MUST BE BORN-AGAIN ALA JOHN 3:1-16 !**

27

News Item10/26/11 3:27 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
That's purely historical argument, which quite apart from the verification problems inherent in any such empirical approach, carries no weight with me.

Words like "perhaps" and "by some" suggests you know this, too. Why not study the Scriptures, as the noble Bereans did even with an authority like Paul, instead of testing the prevailing theological winds? Ex. 23:2 is a warning against following bandwagons.

26

News Item10/26/11 3:23 PM
ZTA  Find all comments by ZTA
Neil wrote:
Argument from silence. And why should the agenda of television broadcasters (few of which call themselves "Protestant" anyway) dictate what is worth teaching & what is not? I have even encountered Fundy Baptists on this site who distance themselves from Protestantism.
I don't care if justification gets "buried under the sands of time" or not. I don't care if billions have died & will die in unbelief; justification by faith alone in the imputed righteousness of Christ is what Scripture clearly teaches, & that is enough for me.
Perhaps Justification was buried under 1,600 years of sand, then, Luther grabbed it as soon as it emerged. But because he didn't identify those who would continue to hold it in succeeding generations, there's not one person (denomination) who has a grip on it.

Now five (or more) different Christian groups claim to be holding the correct Justification -- the view that Luther gripped.

Whichever was the one correct Justification, it's now quickly submerging under the stands of time.

This brief moment of time when Justification emerged and was considered an issue by some, is over.

25

News Item10/26/11 3:13 PM
Street-Preacher  Find all comments by Street-Preacher
THE AUTHORIZED+HOLY+BIBLE:

THE LORD JESUS CHRIST WOULD'VE BEEN & STILL IS THE ALMIGHTY GOD, GRADE-A, THEIST OF ULTIMATE "BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS" !

"BUT WITHOUT FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE HIM (ALMIGHTY GOD): FOR HE THAT COMETH TO (ALMIGHTY) GOD MUST BELIEVE THAT HE IS; AND THAT HE IS A REWARDER OF THEM THAT DILIGENTLY SEEK HIM." HEBREWS 11:6

"YEA, A MAN MAY SAY (NOTICE, IT DOESN'T SAY 'GOD MAY SAY' &-OR 'GOD HAS SAID'), THOU HAST FAITH, AND I HAVE WORKS: SHOW ME THY FAITH WITHOUT THY WORKS, AND I WILL SHOW THEE MY FAITH BY MY WORKS." JAMES 2:18

"BUT WILT THOU KNOW, O VAIN MAN, THAT (MAN'S--NOT GOD'S) FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD ?" JAMES 2:20

"FOR AS THE BODY (OF MAN--NOTICE; IT DOESN'T SAY 'THE BODY' [OF GOD]: THAT IS, 'THE BODY' [OF CHRIST])

WITHOUT THE SPIRIT (OF MAN--NOT 'THE SPIRIT' [OF GOD]) IS DEAD,

SO (MAN'S--NOT GOD'S) FAITH WITHOUT (MAN'S--NOT GOD'S) WORKS IS DEAD ALSO." JAMES 2:26

"I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB ? GOD IS NOT THE GOD OF THE DEAD, BUT OF THE LIVING." MATTHEW 22:32

"HE (CHRIST) IS NOT THE GOD OF THE DEAD (HUMAN FAITH & WORKS), BUT THE GOD OF THE LIVING (GOD'S FAITH & WORKS):

YE (ROMAN-"CATHOLICS") THEREFORE DO GREATLY ERR." MARK 12:27

**MAN'S FAITH & WORKS WILL NEVER EVER SAVE HIM !

24

News Item10/26/11 3:09 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Actually, Jim's church has a creed; they, like many anticreedal Baptists, simply call it a Statement of Faith instead. Distinction w/o a difference, for it has the same basic content, if not size, as the Reformation confessions. Even Anabaptists have the Dordrecht Confession.
23

News Item10/26/11 3:05 PM
Street-Preacher  Find all comments by Street-Preacher
THE KING-JAMES HOLY BIBLE:

THE LORD JESUS CHRIST WOULD'VE BEEN & STILL IS THE ALMIGHTY GOD, GRADE-A, THEIST OF ULTIMATE "BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS" !

"BUT WITHOUT FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE HIM (ALMIGHTY GOD): FOR HE THAT COMETH TO (ALMIGHTY) GOD MUST BELIEVE THAT HE IS; AND THAT HE IS A REWARDER OF THEM THAT DILIGENTLY SEEK HIM." HEBREWS 11:6

"YEA, A MAN MAY SAY (NOTICE, IT DOESN'T SAY 'GOD MAY SAY' &-OR 'GOD HAS SAID'), THOU HAST FAITH, AND I HAVE WORKS: SHOW ME THY FAITH WITHOUT THY WORKS, AND I WILL SHOW THEE MY FAITH BY MY WORKS." JAMES 2:18

"BUT WILT THOU KNOW, O VAIN MAN, THAT (MAN'S--NOT GOD'S) FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD ?" JAMES 2:20

"FOR AS THE BODY (OF MAN--NOTICE; IT DOESN'T SAY 'THE BODY' [OF GOD]: THAT IS, 'THE BODY' [OF CHRIST])

WITHOUT THE SPIRIT (OF MAN--NOT 'THE SPIRIT' [OF GOD]) IS DEAD,

SO (MAN'S--NOT GOD'S) FAITH WITHOUT (MAN'S--NOT GOD'S) WORKS IS DEAD ALSO." JAMES 2:26

"I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB ? GOD IS NOT THE GOD OF THE DEAD, BUT OF THE LIVING." MATTHEW 22:32

"HE (CHRIST) IS NOT THE GOD OF THE DEAD (HUMAN FAITH & WORKS), BUT THE GOD OF THE LIVING (GOD'S FAITH & WORKS):

YE (ROMAN-"CATHOLICS") THEREFORE DO GREATLY ERR." MARK 12:27

**MAN'S FAITH & WORKS WILL NEVER EVER SAVE HIM !

22

News Item10/26/11 3:05 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
ZTA, you hit upon a good point, creeds and such can be a handy list to remember, but the Scripture alone is--

2 Timothy 3
16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
17 that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

Romans 1
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God, or give thanks; but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.---NASB

If you have the Bible you really don't need the creeds and the confessions -- especially those that add or subtract from it.

If Dawkins had enough sense to look around him, yesterday, today, and tomorrow, he would know better than to be atheist.

The following is interesting (though not an endorsement of psychology ) Psychology of Unbelief: Skepticism, Agnosticism and Atheism.

21

News Item10/26/11 2:56 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
ZTA wrote:
John,
Aren't you disconnected from the Church? Why would Spurgeon's words be comforting to one who is a thorough-going Bible Alone Christian? Aren't you the least bit suspicious of man-made confessions and creeds? Doesn't the Nicene Creed give you a belly-ache? Why, then, would the LBCF (which version?) be a balm to you?
These are not the sort of questions a hell-bound sinner needs to be asking. Think about it.

If you are not justified before God by simple faith, but instead are seeking to work your way to heaven, you are most assuredly a lost sinner who needs, not debates about creeds, but a sincere searching after the truth as found in scripture, concerning the FINISHED work of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which even you may recover from the snare of the devil, being born again of the living word of God, and saved from an eternal hell, which is your just desert because of your multitude of sins, the most grievous of which is, to reject the truth when you come across it, for which rejection the Lord has promised to make it even more difficult, nay impossible, to accept it at a later date.

Don't procrastinate, but seek ye the Lord while he may be found.

20

News Item10/26/11 2:56 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
ZTA wrote:
Also, if imputation is totally required for salvation ("The article upon which the Church stands or falls" -Luther), why doesn't Protestant TV discuss it?
Argument from silence. And why should the agenda of television broadcasters (few of which call themselves "Protestant" anyway) dictate what is worth teaching & what is not? I have even encountered Fundy Baptists on this site who distance themselves from Protestantism.

I don't care if justification gets "buried under the sands of time" or not. I don't care if billions have died & will die in unbelief; justification by faith alone in the imputed righteousness of Christ is what Scripture clearly teaches, & that is enough for me.

19

News Item10/26/11 2:47 PM
ZTA  Find all comments by ZTA
John UK wrote:
Ah, this is more like it!
You see how fellowship is not only wonderful but possible, around the glorious truth of Christ's imputed righteousness given to those who exercise their God-given faith in his Son, who died for his sheep duly predestinated and chosen, called in time, and justified freely by his grace, that they may be eternally grateful, giving thanks continually for such matchless grace, worshipping him who has done so much for them, and continues to do, and who will come again to receive them to himself, in the glories of heaven, God himself receiving all the glory and praise for these marvellous works.
John,

Aren't you disconnected from the Church? Why would Spurgeon's words be comforting to one who is a thorough-going Bible Alone Christian? Aren't you the least bit suspicious of man-made confessions and creeds? Doesn't the Nicene Creed give you a belly-ache? Why, then, would the LBCF (which version?) be a balm to you?

18

News Item10/26/11 2:43 PM
Street-Preacher  Find all comments by Street-Preacher
THE 66-BOOKS OF THE+HISTORIC+AUTHORIZED+"KING-JAMES"+HOLY+BIBLE:

THE LORD JESUS CHRIST WOULD'VE BEEN & STILL IS THE ALMIGHTY GOD, GRADE-A, THEIST OF ULTIMATE "BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS" !

"BUT WITHOUT FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE HIM (ALMIGHTY GOD): FOR HE THAT COMETH TO (ALMIGHTY) GOD MUST BELIEVE THAT HE IS; AND THAT HE IS A REWARDER OF THEM THAT DILIGENTLY SEEK HIM." HEBREWS 11:6 !

"YEA, A MAN MAY SAY (NOTICE, IT DOES NOT SAY 'GOD MAY SAY' &-OR 'GOD HAS SAID'), THOU HAST FAITH, AND I HAVE WORKS: SHOW ME THY FAITH WITHOUT THY WORK, AND I WILL SHOW THEE MY FAITH BY MY WORKS." JAMES 2:18 !

"BUT WILT THOU KNOW, O VAIN MAN, THAT (MAN'S--NOT GOD'S) FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD ?" JAMES 2:20 !

"FOR AS THE BODY (OF MAN--NOTICE; IT DOESN'T SAY 'THE BODY' [OF GOD]: THAT IS, 'THE BODY' [OF CHRIST])

WITHOUT THE SPIRIT (OF MAN--NOT 'THE SPIRIT' [OF GOD]) IS DEAD,

SO (MAN'S--NOT GOD'S) FAITH WITHOUT (MAN'S--NOT GOD'S) WORKS IS DEAD ALSO." JAMES 2:26 !

"I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB ? GOD IS NOT THE GOD OF THE DEAD, BUT OF THE LIVING." MATTHEW 22:32 !

"HE (CHRIST) IS NOT THE GOD OF THE DEAD (HUMAN FAITH & WORKS), BUT THE GOD OF THE LIVING (GOD'S FAITH & WORKS):

YE (ROMAN-"CATHOLICS") THEREFORE DO GREATLY ERR." MARK 12:27 !!!

17

News Item10/26/11 2:38 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
Biblical Presbyterian wrote:
A real Reformed Baptist writing on the 1689 Confession says;
"This ancient document is the most excellent epitome of the things most surely believed among us. It is not issued as an authoritative rule or code of faith, whereby you may be fettered, but as a means of edification in righteousness. It is an excellent, though not inspired, expression of the teaching of those Holy Scriptures by which all confessions are to be measured. We hold to the humbling truths of God's sovereign grace in the salvation of lost sinners. Salvation is through Christ alone and by faith alone."
(C.H.Spurgeon)
Ah, this is more like it!

You see how fellowship is not only wonderful but possible, around the glorious truth of Christ's imputed righteousness given to those who exercise their God-given faith in his Son, who died for his sheep duly predestinated and chosen, called in time, and justified freely by his grace, that they may be eternally grateful, giving thanks continually for such matchless grace, worshipping him who has done so much for them, and continues to do, and who will come again to receive them to himself, in the glories of heaven, God himself receiving all the glory and praise for these marvellous works.

16

News Item10/26/11 2:33 PM
ZTA  Find all comments by ZTA
Biblical Presbyterian wrote:
Also, if imputation is totally required for salvation ("The article upon which the Church stands or falls" -Luther), why doesn't Protestant TV discuss it?

Why don't they discuss the WCF, the LBCF or any other Reformation documents? Why don't they discuss TULIP, the 5 Solas or anything else of Calvin?

The only confession of faith discussed is the ancient Nicene Creed (and perhaps the Apostles' Creed). Discussed and recited on EWTN.

Exactly how imputation is to be defined, no man can authoritatively say.

As atheism swells, imputation has fallen. Perhaps this is better stated in reverse. As imputation has fallen, atheism swells.

Unfaithful Catholics become faithful Protestants. Unfaithful Protestants become atheists.

15
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