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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  12/27/2014
SATURDAY, AUG 27, 2011  |  27 comments
New Presbyterian group opposes gay ordination
A gathering of Presbyterians opposed to the ordination of sexually active gay and lesbian clergy drew nearly 2,000 people from around the country this week after the denomination overturned restrictions against gay ordination.

The Star Tribune of Minneapolis reported Friday (http://bit.ly/pNLdg8 ) that the new Fellowship of Presbyterians aims to support local churches opposed to the ordination policy adopted in May by the Presbyterian Church USA. The meeting at a Bloomington hotel attracted lay leaders and clergy from 830 congregations in 49 states.

A majority of the denomination's 173 presbyteries voted in May to remove a policy requiring clergy to be celibate or married to a member of the opposite sex, instead allowing each presbytery to decide whom to ordain. The Twin Cities presbytery cast the deciding vote approving language adopted last year at the denomination's national convention in ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 27 user comment(s)
News Item8/30/11 12:15 PM
from the real Church  Find all comments by from the real Church
__ wrote:
Presbyterian Church History:
Roman Catholic history:
Idolatry,
Iconolatry,
Relic worship,
Dead people worship,
Graven image worship,
Blasphemous Mass,
Continued blasphemy,
UNBiblical practices,
Papal antichrist,
Works based religion,
and lots lots more.....
27

News Item8/29/11 9:32 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Randolph wrote:
Good word Mike. I was hoping to come to this news topic and find some intellegent remarks, and hoping that someone might have suggested some of the more conservative Presbyterian fellowships as an alternative to PCUSA (I had recently discovered the ERPC evangelical reformed presbyterian church)Instead much of the discussion has been straining at a gnat and ignoring the camel. Hopefuly your comment will encorage others to adress the subject.
P.S. Hope the strom did not go too badly. We prayed for your area yesterday.
Thank you for your prayers, Randolph. Many in NYS are having much difficulty due to flooding. The area where I live was spared, with no rain at all, just a stiff wind.
26

News Item8/29/11 10:07 AM
__  
Presbyterian Church History:
Presbyterian Church of Scotland voted to allow openly-gay clergy in the pulpit in 2011.

PCUSA voted to allow openly-gay clergy in the pulpit in 2011.

PCA voted to allow openly-gay clergy in the pulpit in 20__ .

OPC voted to allow openly-gay clergy in the pulpit in 20__ .

What years will this come to pass for the PCA and OPC?

"Sins of the fathers..."

25

News Item8/29/11 9:41 AM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
Mike,
I found equivalency in your lack of Biblical knowledge, now you also fall into the fallacy of 'relative' error.

Deuteronomy 27:26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.

All sin leads to death. Only with Christ is there life, and I once again applaud brethren in the PCUSA fighting this error
1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Randolph,
There are also many good PCA & OPC churches as well. However, I sure hope Christians arent sowing seeds of division in the PCUSA in order to fill the coffers of their own churches.


Mike wrote:
To find equivalency between trees that can do no evil and gays in the pulpit who can, seems a mite strange.
I find it interesting when someone runs out of ideas, that he may well resort to personal criticism. But for my edification, perhaps you might show where I wickedly corrupted myself "further by condemning Christians..."
24

News Item8/29/11 8:54 AM
Randolph  Find all comments by Randolph
Mike wrote:
To find equivalency between trees that can do no evil and gays in the pulpit who can, seems a mite strange.
I find it interesting when someone runs out of ideas, that he may well resort to personal criticism. But for my edification, perhaps you might show where I wickedly corrupted myself "further by condemning Christians..."
Good word Mike. I was hoping to come to this news topic and find some intellegent remarks, and hoping that someone might have suggested some of the more conservative Presbyterian fellowships as an alternative to PCUSA (I had recently discovered the ERPC evangelical reformed presbyterian church)Instead much of the discussion has been straining at a gnat and ignoring the camel. Hopefuly your comment will encorage others to adress the subject.
P.S. Hope the strom did not go too badly. We prayed for your area yesterday.
23

News Item8/29/11 8:40 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
SteveR wrote:
Mike
If you think nothing is said about this issue, and dare compare the making of a pulpit with this heathen practice, may I suggest you read more of your Bible?
You seem to suffer from the same flaw as the 51% of the PCUSA who voted for the abomination, you are both Biblically illiterate. And you werent satisfied with that wickedness, you corrupt yourself further by condemning Christians admonishing their brethren
---
Jeremiah 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. Jeremiah 10:5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
To find equivalency between trees that can do no evil and gays in the pulpit who can, seems a mite strange.

I find it interesting when someone runs out of ideas, that he may well resort to personal criticism. But for my edification, perhaps you might show where I wickedly corrupted myself "further by condemning Christians..."

22

News Item8/29/11 7:50 AM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
If Paul shunned based on that understanding instead of exhorted his fellow Christians, the early Church would have been very small group of hypocrites.

hmm, kinda like this Message Board


CJW wrote:
SteveR wrote:
"In context, that warning from John is against those who become spiritually yoked with those that deny Jesus is the Christ. While this is a gross error on the part of the PCUSA, they do not deny the divinity of Christ."
The doctrine of Christ: Everything the Scriptures teach about Christ; and Everything Christ taught and did as recorded in Scripture.
Christ taught about eternal suffering in hell, thus it falls under the doctrine of Christ. It is His teaching, His doctrine. Christ also said, John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. Did Christ ever promote an abominable lifestyle? GOD FORBID!
You do not have to specifically deny the deity/divinity of Christ to be one who does not abide in the doctrine of Christ.
21

News Item8/29/11 2:54 AM
CJW | Philippines  Find all comments by CJW
SteveR wrote:
"In context, that warning from John is against those who become spiritually yoked with those that deny Jesus is the Christ. While this is a gross error on the part of the PCUSA, they do not deny the divinity of Christ."

The doctrine of Christ: Everything the Scriptures teach about Christ; and Everything Christ taught and did as recorded in Scripture.

Christ taught about eternal suffering in hell, thus it falls under the doctrine of Christ. It is His teaching, His doctrine. Christ also said, John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. Did Christ ever promote an abominable lifestyle? GOD FORBID!

You do not have to specifically deny the deity/divinity of Christ to be one who does not abide in the doctrine of Christ.

20

News Item8/29/11 12:43 AM
Bro Bill | Montana  Find all comments by Bro Bill
"A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump."
19

News Item8/28/11 8:37 PM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
Mike
If you think nothing is said about this issue, and dare compare the making of a pulpit with this heathen practice, may I suggest you read more of your Bible?
You seem to suffer from the same flaw as the 51% of the PCUSA who voted for the abomination, you are both Biblically illiterate. And you werent satisfied with that wickedness, you corrupt yourself further by condemning Christians admonishing their brethren

Mike wrote:
, whereas not much is said about trees next to pulpits. Of course, if the pulpit is made of tree material you could argue it is idolatry, if I understand your application of it correctly.
Jeremiah 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. Jeremiah 10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. Jeremiah 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. Jeremiah 10:5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
18

News Item8/28/11 5:50 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
SteveR wrote:
On another thread I outlined who some RCUS churches have Christmas trees next to their pulpits as they condemn idolatry of other Christians.
Idolatry is an abomination
Should their members quit?
Probably not, unless the tree is worshipped, required for the application of the idolatry label.

Consider homosexuality is labeled abomination by God, whereas not much is said about trees next to pulpits. Of course, if the pulpit is made of tree material you could argue it is idolatry, if I understand your application of it correctly.

17

News Item8/28/11 1:35 PM
Frank | Clearwater, FL  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
CV wrote:
SteveR
All your posts seem innocent and innocuous, but disguise a love for the abominable.
RC is abominable. These "churches" that have departed from God are abominable. Here, you frame it in a form of a question to subtly drive people towards what God hates.
You need to check your theology bro. You always line up on the wrong side. You need to "come out" of the
"Lord Lord, did we not..." crowd.
Why leave these churches? Because God has already left.
In 2Chron11, the Levites left their land and possessions, (that which Moses and Joshua fought to get them), when Israel became idolatrous, to go to Judah where God was still worshiped. In fact, ALL the people that loved God also left-
2Chron11:16 "And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers."
CV, your comment and observation regarding SteveR is right on target. Yes, this fellow is "likely" seeking to drive people away from our Lord and Savior. Satan uses many ways to attack us and the most effective ways are the most subtle. Good for you for recognizing this.
16

News Item8/28/11 10:57 AM
Ruth  Find all comments by Ruth
SteveR wrote:
On another thread I outlined who some RCUS churches have Christmas trees next to their pulpits as they condemn idolatry of other Christians.
Idolatry is an abomination
Should their members quit?
Churches with such holyday trees have a poor understanding of the word of God; therefore many of their people would not even know that it was wrong, not having been well taught. But if one was to come under conviction, from the Scripture and better teachers it would be hoped that they'd follow Matthew 18; however, it is rare to find two to agree close enough, in this back-slidden time to proceed with the right steps of discipline. It being broken when government is broken either in Church or State; separate institutions, under God, as either Creator-civil or Redeemer-church
15

News Item8/28/11 9:54 AM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
CV wrote:
SteveR
All your posts seem innocent and innocuous, but disguise a love for the abominable.
RC is abominable. These "churches" that have departed from God are abominable. Here, you frame it in a form of a question to subtly drive people towards what God hates.
CV I thought I was lining up with those that are trying to reform and admonish their brethren in the PCUSA, not the PCUSA.

But I applaud those that are active in their faith, more than the lukewarm pew warmers in so many of our self desbribed 'theologically sound' churches.

Presby,Mike
They might be doubleminded, but I dont think they reject Christ by their actions

Mike btw: You didnt respond to the Christmas tree question

AND
May the Lord Bless their efforts

14

News Item8/27/11 11:51 PM
CV | Australia  Find all comments by CV
SteveR wrote:
Do you think they should retreat ..?
Martin Luther gave more of a chance to the RCC
SteveR
All your posts seem innocent and innocuous, but disguise a love for the abominable.
RC is abominable. These "churches" that have departed from God are abominable. Here, you frame it in a form of a question to subtly drive people towards what God hates.

You need to check your theology bro. You always line up on the wrong side. You need to "come out" of the
"Lord Lord, did we not..." crowd.

Why leave these churches? Because God has already left.

In 2Chron11, the Levites left their land and possessions, (that which Moses and Joshua fought to get them), when Israel became idolatrous, to go to Judah where God was still worshiped. In fact, ALL the people that loved God also left-

2Chron11:16 "And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers."

13

News Item8/27/11 4:47 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Strange, there have been commentaries, good ones, about why Catholics should leave the Romish Church, Staying in Hope of Changing the Church because changing it isn't going to happen. So, why shouldn't Christians entirely leave the PCUSA, I would encourage them to do it, A New Exodus? Americans are Exiting Liberal Churches
Twain in "CT Yankee in ...Court" wrote:
We _must_ have a religion --it goes without saying--but my idea is, to have it cut up into forty free sects, so that they will police each other, as had been the case in the United States in my time. Concentration of power in a political machine is bad; and an Established Church is only a political machine; it was invented for that; it is nursed, cradled, preserved for that; it is an enemy to human liberty, and does no good which it could not better do in a split-up and scattered condition. That wasn't law; it wasn't gospel: it was only an opinion--my opinion, and I was only a man, one man: so it wasn't worth any more than the pope's--or any less, for that matter.
A remark by an insightful ath
12

News Item8/27/11 4:41 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
SteveR wrote:
In context, that warning from John is against those who become spiritually yoked with those that deny Jesus is the Christ. While this is a gross error on the part of the PCUSA, they do not deny the divinity of Christ.
With their words they may claim Jesus to be divine, but what do their actions say?

Luke 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"

11

News Item8/27/11 4:36 PM
Presby  Find all comments by Presby
SteveR wrote:
In context, that warning from John is against those who become spiritually yoked with those that deny Jesus is the Christ. While this is a gross error on the part of the PCUSA, they do not deny the divinity of Christ.
Jesus said
"18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

PCUSA is in disagreement with Jesus.

They have effectively removed the word as indeed Rom 1:18-32 points out.

They are denying Christ as the Son of God by rejecting His Word, law and doctrine.

The Roman Catholics proclaim that they agree with 2.John too - But they rejected the Bible and Christ centuries ago.

10

News Item8/27/11 4:08 PM
sixty one  Find all comments by sixty one
AND wrote:
Whatever happened to "fight the good fight" where you are instead of merely heading for the hills? Why may PCUSA conservatives not remain, pray and work for a reversal of this sinful doctrine?
Or better still - Why didn't all the Protestants stay with those nice Roman Catholics and have a really nice big church.

Oh and why did Jesus reject those poor "orthodox" Pharisees, they were relgious and keen as mustard.

And then there is those Baptists just because they prefer the bath to the shower they take the huff and run out.

9

News Item8/27/11 4:08 PM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
On another thread I outlined who some RCUS churches have Christmas trees next to their pulpits as they condemn idolatry of other Christians.

Idolatry is an abomination

Should their members quit?

Mike wrote:
If PCUSA calls good what God calls abomination, the denomination has thumbed its nose directly at God. Why would anyone who is a Christian remain?
8
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