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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  9/14/2014
MONDAY, AUG 22, 2011  |  36 comments  |  1 commentary
Pope says priests must live saintly lives
Pope Benedict said on Saturday Roman Catholic priests must live saintly lives and men should only enter the priesthood if they were convinced they could live by all the Church's rules, including celibacy.

On the third day of a visit that has been marked by protests, the pope celebrated Mass for some 4,500 seminarians training for the priesthood in Madrid's La Almudena cathedral.

"We have to be saints so as not to create a contradiction between the sign that we are and the reality that we wish to signify," he said in a sermon as part of activities of the Church's World Youth Day. ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 36 user comment(s)
News Item8/27/11 4:52 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
__ wrote:
Isn't Ankerberg still walking around?
He is the last time I heard!

Should Roman Catholicism really be classified as a Christian religion? -- No.

36

News Item8/27/11 11:38 AM
truth teachers  Find all comments by truth teachers
Roman Catholic ERRORS.

"The distinction of what is called dulia and latria was invented for the very purpose of permitting divine honours to be paid to angels and dead men with apparent impunity. For it is plain that the worship which Papists pay to saints differs in no respect from the worship of God: for this worship is paid without distinction; only when they are pressed they have recourse to the evasion, that what belongs to God is kept unimpaired, because they leave him latria. But since the question relates not to the word, but the thing, how can they be allowed to sport at will with a matter of the highest moment? But not to insist on this, the utmost they will obtain by their distinction is, that they give worship to God, and service to the others. For "latreia" in Greek has the same meaning as worship in Latin; whereas "douleia" properly means service, though the words are sometimes used in Scripture indiscriminately. But granting that the distinction is invariably preserved, the thing to be inquired into is the meaning of each. "Douleia" unquestionably means service, and "latreia" worship. But no man doubts that to serve is something higher than to worship. For it were often a hard thing to serve him whom you would not refuse to reverence." (Calvin)

35

News Item8/26/11 2:41 PM
__  
Jim Lincoln wrote:
Amen, Crosskeys Roman Catholic Tradition
Isn't Ankerberg still walking around?
34

News Item8/26/11 2:23 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Crosskeys wrote:
Worship. Roman Catholic style.
...
They refer to words; Latria - worship of God. Dulia worship of saints etc. But how do they actually
separate them in the heart of the follower? And is there any discernable and realistic difference in the person?
In worship God commands and demands 100 percent of His disciple, - in worship, love and the fear of God.
The RC by dividing his heart and mind into some for God and some for relics etc, Thus ROB God of what is His due, and His alone....
Amen, Crosskeys Roman Catholic Tradition

Ah, Ruth! Matthew Henry an excellent commentator, though sometimes confusing the Old Testament ekklesia (Ecclesia) with the New, q.v., The Biblical Doctrine of the Church.

I would also suggest you look at the end of the article on Ankerberg's site about, ...the single-meaning Hermeneutic (Interpretation). Matt can have a double meaning the Bible doesn't.

33

News Item8/26/11 12:55 PM
Crosskeys  Find all comments by Crosskeys
Worship. Roman Catholic style.

Is worship for the RC any different to veneration of relics, saints etc?

What does the person bring to the object of his worship? Sin, flesh, mind, heart, knowledge, ideology.

This being so is there any real difference between what the RC believes they bring to God - AND what they bring to idol's and relics et al?

They refer to words; Latria - worship of God. Dulia worship of saints etc. But how do they actually
separate them in the heart of the follower? And is there any discernable and realistic difference in the person?

In worship God commands and demands 100 percent of His disciple, - in worship, love and the fear of God.

The RC by dividing his heart and mind into some for God and some for relics etc, Thus ROB God of what is His due, and His alone. Therefore they do not worship God but bring Him down to the level of graven images, relics and dead bodies.

The Roman Catholic sins against God, Christ and the Holy Spirit and indeed blaspheme against the Holy Name of God.

"And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own TRADITION" Mk 7.9

"But IN VAIN they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men" Mat 15.9.

32

News Item8/26/11 11:02 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Ruth wrote:
Sir,
I believe the Scriptures of both the Old and New Testaments do speak to both....
I agree but that is beside my point, Ruth.

My point is that I find no biblical precedent to interpret the same phrase (husband of one wife) of a verse (either 1 Tim 3:2 or Titus 1:6) as speaking to two completely different offences to Gods revealed will; viz. divorce and polygamy.

To make my point clear, I invite you to post a couple examples of verses which can be interpreted correctly with two or more completely different meanings. My guess is you won't be able to find any in which case you need to consider the possibility that the pastor you mentioned was actually abusing this particular text unaware with a dual interpretation.

Just as sound doctrine is not established on one verse, neither is a sound interpretive principal established on one verse.

31

News Item8/26/11 10:00 AM
Ruth  Find all comments by Ruth
Lurker wrote:
Matthew Henry agrees with what you have presented; that is that "husband of one wife" can mean never having been divorced as well as meaning a monogamous marital status.
I can't agree that two interpretations of the same verse can both be correct.
Sir,
I believe the Scriptures of both the Old and New Testaments do speak to both and unless one is well versed in the law of God, he might forget that Jesus said not a jot or tittle would be removed from the law until all things be fulfilled. The law is written on the Christian's heart, but Judicial Gospel law in society is that which will reward those who do well and punish evil doers. The Church's discipline in tact would prevent much of today's error, scandal, and persecution, since much of it originates in the Gentile church Rev. 11:1-2. The walls of our Jerusalem have been broken down see Rutherford's Lex Rex and on our topic consider
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=83006115915 the young man is a friend and there is note worthy information from Scripture in this I believe, though I would differ on some things.
30

News Item8/25/11 10:19 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Ruth wrote:
Ah, Again I lack clarity, misusing 'one' word that changes everything. I am a woman after all.

Self-correction: The Minister was not saying that these new converts could be ELDERS (is what I meant to say, instead of Christian). They didn't meet the criteria of being the husband of one wife. As Christians they would have to begin from where they were and grow in grace and the knowledge of God, obeying the truth as it is in Jesus. That same Jesus who is Lord and the Immutable God of both the Old and New Testament Scriptures.
Thanks for the clarification, Ruth.

Matthew Henry agrees with what you have presented; that is that "husband of one wife" can mean never having been divorced as well as meaning a monogamous marital status.

I can't agree that two interpretations of the same verse can both be correct. To my knowledge, I have not found any other instances where a text of scripture has two obvious meanings so I fail to see a precedent which could be applied here. That is my opinion but I can't prove it with scripture and I'm sure if confronted the pastor who you refer to would admit the same.

Btw, you are God's workmanship. He's not ashamed to call you His daughter so don't put yourself down for a little lack of clarity.

29

News Item8/25/11 6:03 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
NON wrote:
John,
Aren't you a totally depraved man casting aspersions on others?
You calling me a totally depraved man?
28

News Item8/25/11 5:36 PM
NON  Find all comments by NON
John UK wrote:
An unregenerate man tells other unregenerate men who desire an unbiblical office that they must live saintly lives?
John,

Aren't you a totally depraved man casting aspersions on others?

27

News Item8/25/11 5:08 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
"Pope Benedict said on Saturday Roman Catholic priests must live saintly lives ..."

An unregenerate man tells other unregenerate men who desire an unbiblical office that they must live saintly lives?

A man with an adamic nature cannot live a saintly life.

Ye must be born again.

That is, born from above, not below (with a little sprinkling of H2O).

26

News Item8/25/11 4:17 PM
Rick  Contact via emailFind all comments by Rick
Ruth wrote:
Jim, I know and believe the 5 Solas & that God requires a God righteousness which no fallen man can ever offer to God because of original sin. That is why the Lord Jesus is called in the OT 'the Lord our Righteousness'. The law is our school master to bring us to Christ, "Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace.."
We will fight the good fight of the faith against the world, the flesh and the devil until we depart to be with Christ, which is far better.
The Christian Sabbath was never abrogated in the NT.
Hi Ruth. Iv'e been observing your posts, and just wanted to say that we are in agreement with many of them. We have been studying A.W. Pink and Edwards regarding many of these things. And have come to a different undersdtanding than the usual dispensational scheam we once used to hold. My wife would like to corrospond with you concerning this as well as others of the doctrines of grace. If you feel inclined, send us an e mail.
25

News Item8/25/11 3:08 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Ah, Ruth, I'll give you another sermon to listen to, Legalism is Shadow, Christ is Substance. There is only one Shabbat, and that is the Jewish one. But anyway, that sermon, will do an excellent on questions about a "Christian Sabbath."

Well, thinking and just reading a little material on the Internet, I think the only answer for a polygamist or on that practices polyandry is if that person is "married" to their original spouse they should make themselves a permanent couple, because,

Matthew 19
6 "Consequently they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."---NASB

There is no such thing as a group marriage in Christianity. While people may not run into Muslims that have multiple marriages, and become Christian, one can't forget there are Mormons in group marriages as well. A Former Polygamist: Out of Polygamy, Into Christ

Former "wives" and children should be provided for naturally just as a consequence of the sinful act of polygamy.

24

News Item8/25/11 10:05 AM
Ruth  Find all comments by Ruth
Ruth wrote:
Lurker, I am sorry what I asked lacked clarity. The minister was not saying that these new converts could be Christian.
Ah, Again I lack clarity, misusing 'one' word that changes everything. I am a woman after all.

Self-correction: The Minister was not saying that these new converts could be ELDERS (is what I meant to say, instead of Christian). They didn't meet the criteria of being the husband of one wife. As Christians they would have to begin from where they were and grow in grace and the knowledge of God, obeying the truth as it is in Jesus. That same Jesus who is Lord and the Immutable God of both the Old and New Testament Scriptures.

23

News Item8/24/11 3:51 PM
Ruth  Find all comments by Ruth
Jim Lincoln wrote:
But, ah, Ruth I guess I'll have to point out another sermon. I would also hope that you would realize,
James 2
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all
Jim, I know and believe the 5 Solas & that God requires a God righteousness which no fallen man can ever offer to God because of original sin. That is why the Lord Jesus is called in the OT 'the Lord our Righteousness'. The law is our school master to bring us to Christ, "Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace.."

We will fight the good fight of the faith against the world, the flesh and the devil until we depart to be with Christ, which is far better.

The Christian Sabbath was never abrogated in the NT. I believe its true purpose: Brethren feasting on the Life sustaining Word, a holy day foreshadowing our eternal rest is demonstrated by Christ, "But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. For the Son of man is Lord even of the sa

22

News Item8/24/11 2:50 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Ruth, to help make things a little simpler is Gil's booklet, Divorce on Trial. It is also in html format, which many find either to access. So, you might mention what you find troubling in this booklet?

But, ah, Ruth I guess I'll have to point out another sermon. How the Church Relates to the Kingdom! I would also hope that you would realize,

James 2
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.---NASB

This sermon should cover the above, Results of Saving Faith Remember we really don't live by Old Testament Law, and only those nine commandments that Christ repeated in the New Testament.

21

News Item8/24/11 10:55 AM
Ruth  Find all comments by Ruth
Lurker, I am sorry what I asked lacked clarity. The minister was not saying that these new converts could be Christian. But he was speaking to the fact that it would mean different things to Jews then to newly converted Gentiles. It could mean seeing that polygamy was not God's intention for marriage and yet they needed to address it like all converted sinners from where they were, as Jim's link stated.

Two commandments violations brought up with frequency on this site are against the 6th and 7th commandment. On another thread what does the Bible teach about the use of alcohol and often divorce and remarriage is an issue. The opinions are as varied as the opinion holders and the divisions in the Gentile Church. I was thinking last night, James said if we break one commandment we break them all, yet I firmly believe to break first table commandments are more heinous because they are against God. That isn't spoken of as often, yet it troubles the Gentile Church.

Jim, I found somethings helpful and some things troubling in the first link. I grant I did not listen to the whole series, but it saddened me to think of the breakdown of church and state government that makes such sermons necessary among God's people, how little we differ from apostate Israel's back-sliding.

20

News Item8/23/11 5:00 PM
Kdor  Find all comments by Kdor
TPK wrote:
Today many seminaries graduate female MDivs. And you rebuke them. However, in 20 years when all seminaries graduate female MDivs, who will remain to rebuke them?
Clearly you are Roman Catholic and therefore of false idolatrous religion.

Who will rebuke anybody is the same God of Sola Scriptura which you ignore in your blasphemous worship and doctrines. The same God which rebukes the antichrist and his false religion.

19

News Item8/23/11 4:18 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
TPK wrote:
---
Today many seminaries graduate female MDivs. And you rebuke them. However, in 20 years when all seminaries graduate female MDivs, who will remain to rebuke them?
In terms of people, who remains is who will always remain, the remnant.
18

News Item8/23/11 4:11 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Ruth wrote:
I have a question for you, sir. I was once taught in a Calvinist Baptist Church that 'the husband of one wife' was directed also to new gentile converts who had polygamous wives and now they had come to faith in Christ. This minister taught that this was a reference to such, as well. The church would then need to weed out, so to speak, the remnants of sin that could not be tolerated, yet showing mercy to these men's households, who had now by faith in Christ under his headship been in graphed into the root and stock of Abraham. This gospel light was now to be applied through New Testament glasses to the Old Testament law which Ezra, Nehemiah,and Malachi had dealt with amongst the Jews who had the law since childhood (like Timothy), who had since Abraham been part of the covenant community of God always a community of grace and faith; as saith the Psalms and a people of law and order. Would like your thoughts?
We've had polygamists on this forum appeal to 1 Tim 3:2 & Titus 1:6 as proof that all but bishops are permitted to have more than one wife. Isn't it interesting how the same text can be massaged in opposite directions?

These texts speak specifically to men mature in the faith who desire to become bishops, not new converts.

17
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