We're mad at Congress, mad at President Obama, mad at Wall Street. Can't anyone live up to their job description? What about God? How's His performance these days? asks satirist -- and sincere Catholic --Stephen Colbert on Wednesday night.
And for answers, he turned to the official Chaplain of the Colbert Nation -- Rev. James Martin, culture editor for America Magazine and author of The Jesuit Guide to (Almost) Everthing.
Bibliophile wrote: I'm being honest since God's very holiness is at stake. Which narrative, (1.) or (2.), is correct?
Nobody who sincerely sought God, ever not found God. But nobody who feigns sincerity like Rome, ever sought God.
What you seek is for us to concede that if Rome is bad, then for over 1000 years prior to reformation, Gods church ceased to exist. Or in option 2, if "wheat" & "tares" both exist{ed} in RC, then Rome is not all bad.
You're not getting what you think you're getting.
There is not enough space here but suffice it to say that God did not build a half good/ half bad church. God may have called His people OUT of RC, but so what, they've been call out of a satanist coven. Implicit in this half bad church is your admission that Rome is bad, that's all.
Regardless, it's the height of arrogance to think that pre-reformation, Rome's tentacles had spread so completely that NO heart and mind was outside it's subjugation. Rome tried to destroy God's word and God's people, but both survived despite Rome's oppression. Gods Church has always been there - His word & His people- and Rome tried to martyr both.
Marty M wrote: I became amazed and filled with terror when I saw the underlying assumption under Romans 9:20. The only moral law that is, is the one flowing out of God. ...
Again, thank you for what you shared, again, I agree. I was having a discussion today and the words legal and illegal were used. I thought in my mind lawful verse unlawful. Because what is legal is not always according to God's law and what is illegal is not always contrary. The Christian has the law of God written in His heart and he does not need to come under the power of the civil sword as a law breaker or shouldn't because it is his desire to keep the law if it pleases His Master. Christ's imputed righteousness is ours for our justification because only Christ ever could keep it perfectly which is no less then what God requires. But our sanctification will see us increasingly conformed to Christ's righteousness/lawfulness. There is a problem when the Civil sphere contradicts God's law. The Christian has one Master always and only to please. The same moral law should please both the Church under Christ her Head and the State under the Creator's moral law. Christ has that authority as God, truly God and truly man; he is David's Son and David's Lord.
I became amazed and filled with terror when I saw the underlying assumption under Romans 9:20. The only moral law that is, is the one flowing out of God. There is no free standing law against which the LORD can be compared. The only law there is, is His unchanging character. The human worth and our affairs are only derivative of the Most High. We are His image and not He ours. We have no intrinsic value. We not like gold but more like derivative contracts, whereby God is the underlying value.
Marty M, Agreed, there was a time that the title of this article would be considered blasphemy, Isn't it?
This morning I read a letter written by a man before he was brought to the scaffold for his faithfulness to Christ. "Wherefore I entreat you and all others, as you would not offend God, and provoke Him to more anger (even at that time it was apparent He was already angry and never unrighteously) do not murmur, but bless and praise Him, and submit to Him in all humility; for if this be one of the steps of Zion's deliverance, and God's glory, why should we not praise Him for everything? If we had the manner at our carving, we would mar it. He is the wisdom of the Father, who sits at the helm, and orders affairs. The faith of this should silence all suggestions of Satan, our own hearts, and misbelief. -from 'A Cloud of Witnesses'
Israel had a visible and invisible Church-state. Was God's performance sub-par back then? Seed of Satan and seed of the Woman in one nation. But really, how can I legitimately and righteousness judge the Most High God?
Bibliophile wrote: Please help me understand: --- Either the Roman Catholic Church: (1.) Was totally corrupt for 1,200 years (and remains as such) or (2.) Contained "wheat and tares" for 1,200 years and still contains "wheat and tares." In light of God's "job performance," which is the correct narrative?
Your question concerning God's "job performance" assumes a faulty premise that he has a job performance in the RC church that might ought to be measured. That in turn assumes the RC church to be his church in the first place. Surely you can see that we who do not hold the RC church to be God's church might hold both (1.) and (2.) to be true. (1.) because of continual false teaching, and (2.) because there are RC's whom the Lord has yet to set free.
Marty McDonalds wrote: 1260 years, Christians inside and outside the R.C. system. See link: J.A. Wylie (19th century - History of Protestantism). http://www.doctrine.org/history/HPv1b1.htm
You selected (2.):
Either the Roman Catholic Church: (2.) Contained "wheat and tares" for 1,200 years and still contains "wheat and tares."
And added (3.):
(3.) Some Christians were outside of the Roman Catholic Church for 1,260 years until the Reformation (Circa 1520) until the present time.
In light of God's "job performance" during this very long epoch, is this correct?
Bibliophile wrote: Therefore, which narrative, (1.) or (2.), is correct?
I told you that you would not be able to receive the truth!
In a fallen world iniquity and righteousness both work in the human race at the same time as Paul teaches. The Christian can perceive this by the work of the Holy Spirit indwelling.
But the dominion of sin is a power in the reprobate which prevents them from discerning the truth and the spiritual.
This is the reason why the Roman Catholic rejects Scripture in favor of idolatry. His graven image is essential to his religious philosophy as is empirically demonstrated by his rites and practices in what he calls church!
The Lord's "performance" therefore is perfect whether in a world of sin or in a false church like the Roman Catholic one.
Because the Holiness of God ("job performance") is immutable, both narratives cannot be true at the same time and in the same sense. This would violate the Law of Noncontradiction.
Therefore, which narrative, (1.) or (2.), is correct?
Bibliophile wrote: Which narrative, (1.) or (2.), is correct?
I realise that as a Roman Catholic you will not be able to "receive" the truth, as the Bible predicts, but in actual fact BOTH narratives are correct.
Remember that there is a very real historic difference between the "Christian" and the "Roman Catholic" - For example this is why your outfit brought out the "Inquisitions" that is Popish style thinking. And... eg.. "the notorious St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre in Paris, August 24, 1572. Thousands of Huguenots were butchered by Roman Catholic mobs."
The Roman Catholic being servant to the antichrist will produce evil against the Christian since that is the "nature of the beast."
Your religious house serves a different master from the Christian one.
2Thes 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
The Lord's "performance" in the TRUE Church is recorded in Scripture, eg Matt 5. He saves the elect and; 2Cor 1:5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ."
In the midst of a fallen and wicked world the Lord brings His elect to salvation. Just as He did the Reformation.
Please be honest. You don't really want an answer. You just want to defend your position. If you spent half as much time listening to the sermons on this; Protestant, Reformed, conservative, Fundamentalist website, you would not only have your answers, you would not have time to fill up all these threads with pro catholic arguments. [that was 2]
2 Narratives: (1.) "Catholics have been blaspheming God since Constantine. They've been murdering Christians, raping children, synchronizing with idols and false gods, accepting homosexuality, spreading a false Gospel and so on."
(2.) "Pre-Reformation there was "REAL Christians" - AND Roman Catholics in the church."
Either the Roman Catholic Church: (1.) Was totally corrupt for 1,200 years (and remains as such) or (2.) Contained "wheat and tares" for 1,200 years and still contains "wheat and tares."
In light of God's "job performance," which is the correct narrative?
WAM wrote: @Bibliophile @SteveR: Listen to Jeff Arthur's series "Why I'm Not a Protestant" (here on SA) and you will get it. The Catholic-Light denominations are not the true church. They, along with the Catholic church preach a works salvation. Jesus has been true to his word, he is the Word so that shouldn't suprise anyone. Christ's church has never vanished from the face of the earth.
I Protest! I am not a protestant. Every time someone calls my group of Baptist Protestant, I will protest. We have never protested anything.
Bibliophile wrote: How do you account for this 1,200 year gap
Bibliophile No! As we have pointed out to you before - but you will not listen to the Christian - pre-Reformation there was "REAL Christians" - AND Roman Catholics in the church.
Augustine is a good example since he was a good Calvinist, ie a REAL Christian, and of course there were other Christians true to Scripture which God kept from the idolatrous blasphemy of you and your heretical forbears.
Try and remember that there were people who actually did not worship old bones, bits of wood and dead sinners as you and the papal antichrist do today.
Such as..... Rediculous relics... First-Class Relics: Items directly associated with the events of Christ's life (manger, cross, etc.), or the physical remains of a saint (a bone, a hair, skull, a limb, etc.).
Second-Class Relics: An item that the saint wore (a shirt, a glove, etc.) Also included is an item that the saint owned or frequently used.
Third-Class Relics: Any object that is touched to a first- or second-class relic.
Now REAL Christians (that is non Roman Catholic idolators) Worship ONLY God and His Son Jesus - BECAUSE that is Biblical, and we stick to the Word of God which BTW is the Bible.
What about God? How's His performance these days? asks satirist -- and sincere Catholic --Stephen Colbert on Wednesday night.
My God is perfect and does everything perfectly well! How dare anyone even in humor judge His performance! I wonder what his penance after confession will be?
Hebrews 12:2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Galatians 3:3. Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
Eze 18:25 "Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right?
[7] "But you shall speak My words to them whether they listen or not, for they are rebellious. (Eze 2:7)
"For you will no longer remember the oracle of the LORD, because every man's own word will become the oracle, and you have perverted the words of the living God, the LORD of hosts, our God. (Jer 23:36)
Psalm 10:4. The wicked, in the haughtiness of his countenance, does not seek Him. All his thoughts are, "There is no God." 13. Why has the wicked spurned God? He has said to himself, "You will not require it."
@Bibliophile @SteveR: Listen to Jeff Arthur's series "Why I'm Not a Protestant" (here on SA) and you will get it. The Catholic-Light denominations are not the true church. They, along with the Catholic church preach a works salvation.
Jesus has been true to his word, he is the Word so that shouldn't suprise anyone. Christ's church has never vanished from the face of the earth.
Reason4Truth wrote: Colbert is not a fake Catholic, he's a true Catholic but a fake Christian... Catholics have been blaspheming God since Constantine. They've been murdering Christians, raping children, synchronizing with idols and false gods, accepting homosexuality, spreading a false Gospel and so on. "You will know them by their fruits" What colbert fails to recognize is the depravity of mankind. We are the ones to blame, not God. That is the reason why Jesus came to die on the cross, because apart from Christ our end both here in this world and in eternity is destruction and hell. Their is no hope for mankind apart from Jesus Christ.
You subscribe to the Gap Theory that Christ forsook His Church from Constantine (Circa 4th Century) to the 16th Century when Luther coined his theology, Sola Fide, "a genuine theological novum" (Protestant scholar McGrath, Iustitia Dei, 2005).
How do you account for this 1,200 year gap when a Christian man in the pew would have neither been able to afford a Bible (price of a house) nor known of Sola Fide -- "the article upon which the Church stands or falls" (Luther)?
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