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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  9/16/2014
TUESDAY, AUG 9, 2011  |  22 comments
Theologian: 'Boring' Preachers Should Be Fired
Boring teachers and preachers should be fired, Christian theologian Carl Trueman believes.

In his recent blog post on Reformation 21, an online magazine of the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, the professor of historical theology and church history made it clear and simple – good preachers preaching on doctrine or “the description of who God is and how he has acted” should never leave audiences feeling cold and indifferent.

“The relationship between doctrine and worship in the structure of Paul’s letters allows us to infer that doctrine which does not lead to praise is not really true in the richest sense of the word,” he penned. “Doctrine which does not culminate in praise is not true doctrine.” ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 22 user comment(s)
News Item8/13/11 3:05 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
It is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain, that goes for what is written as well.

"He that cannot reason is a fool.
He that will not is a bigot.
He that dare not is a slave" ---Andrew Carnegie (1835-1919)

You really do make the Roman Catholic Church look great by your abusive speech, Tony By the way, you are not a Kennite, which you have claimed to be, Identity: A 'Christian' Religion for White Racists.

22

News Item8/12/11 3:01 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
[Removed by Moderator Alpha]
21

News Item8/10/11 6:07 PM
Street-Preacher  Find all comments by Street-Preacher
"CONSTANT WAR WITH THE PAPACY (& "jim lincoln")

By C.H.SPURGEON

WE MUST HAVE NO TRUCE, NO TREATY WITH ROME (&-OR "jim lincoln").

WAR !

WAR TO THE KNIFE WITH HER (&-OR him) !

PEACE THERE CANNOT BE.

SHE (&-OR he) CANNOT HAVE PEACE WITH US - WE CANNOT HAVE PEACE WITH HER (&-OR him).

SHE (&-OR he) HATES THE TRUE CHURCH; AND WE CAN ONLY SAY THAT THE HATRED IS RECIPROCATED.

WE WOULD NOT LAY A HAND UPON HER PRIESTS (&-OR "jim lincoln"); WE WOULD NOT TOUCH A HAIR OF THEIR HEADS.

LET THEM BE FREE: BUT THEIR DOCTRINE WE WOULD DESTROY FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH AS THE DOCTRINE OF DEVILS.

SO LET IT PERISH, O GOD, AND LET THAT EVIL THING BECOME AS THE FAT OF LAMBS.

INTO SMOKE LET IT CONSUME: YEA, INTO SMOKE LET IT CONSUME AWAY.

WE MUST FIGHT THE LORD'S BATTLES AGAINST THIS GIANT ERROR, WHICHEVER SHAPE IT TAKES; AND SO MUST WE DO WITH EVERY ERROR THAT POLLUTES THE CHURCH.

SLAY IT UTTERLY; LET NONE ESCAPE.

"FIGHT THE LORD'S BATTLES."

EVEN THOUGH IT BE AN ERROR THAT IS IN THE EVANGELICAL CHURCH, YET MUST WE SMITE IT.

I LOVE ALL THOSE WHO LOVE THE LORD JESUS CHRIST; BUT, NEVERTHELESS, I CANNOT HAVE ANY TRUCE, ANY TREATY WITH DIVERS ERRORS THAT HAVE CREPT INTO THE CHURCH, NOR WOULD I HAVE YOU REGARD THEM WITH COMPLACENCY.

WE ARE ONE IN CHRIST;..."

20

News Item8/10/11 4:58 PM
boringbeliever  Find all comments by boringbeliever
Anon wrote:
“If [good preaching is] absent [in a worship service], then [praise and thus true doctrine is absent] ... Boring preachers should be fired.”
-Dr. Carl Trueman
It would be interesting to hear some preaching sermons from Dr Trueman. Just imagine the consequences should any be boring
19

News Item8/10/11 4:37 PM
Anon  Find all comments by Anon
“If [good preaching is] absent [in a worship service], then [praise and thus true doctrine is absent] ... Boring preachers should be fired.”

-Dr. Carl Trueman

To ensure praise and true doctrine are optimized at all worship services, wouldn't it be best for orthodox congregations to tune into universally-great expository preachers (e.g., John Piper, John MacArthur Jr. or R.C. Sproul Sr.) at every worship service?

"Boring" preachers don't have to be fired, they could be on-call for counseling, administration and other services.

18

News Item8/10/11 2:39 PM
Street-Preacher  Find all comments by Street-Preacher
C.H. SPURGEON Has Been Long Dead (GOD Rest His Soul); But I Adjure You By THE LIVING GOD That If SPURGEON Were Alive TODAY: HE Would PUBLICLY REBUKE & "UPBRAID" APOSTATES, HERETICS & THEOLOGICAL TREASONOUS TREACHEROUS TRAITORS Like "jim lincoln" & his ILK !

SPURGEON WOULD ESPECIALLY BERATE "jim lincoln" FOR BEING AN APOSTATE, MISUSING & ABUSING THE "AUTHORIZED (ENGLISH) VERSION" OF THE HOLY BIBLE: THAT IS, THE KING JAMES BIBLE !

SPURGEON WOULD PUBLICLY SCOLD "jim lincoln" FOR CONSORTING WITH THE ENEMIES OF & COMPROMISING THE HISTORIC ENGLISH PROTESTANT BIBLICAL TEXT KNOWN AS THE "TEXTUS RECEPTUS" !

SPURGEON WOULD CRY OUT "TO THE KNIFE, TO THE KNIFE" IN HIS SPIRITUAL, PSYCHOLOGICAL & PHYSICAL BATTLE AGAINST THE APOSTATE & HERETIC "jim lincoln"--As SPURGEON CRIED OUT "TO THE KNIFE, TO THE KNIFE" IN HIS SPIRITUAL-PSYCHOLOGICAL-PHYSICAL BATTLE AGAINST "POPERY" & ROMAN CATHOLICISM !

SPURGEON & HIS CONGREGANTS AT THE METROPOLITAN TABERNACLE WOULD NO DOUBT HAVE "BOOK-BURNING" SESSIONS WITH THE WORKS OF "DARWIN", "VOLTAIRE" & EVEN THE NASB GOING UP IN FLAMES !

I CAN EVEN SEE SPURGEON OUT SOUL WINNING IN THE ENGLISH SLUMS, POOR HOUSES & ORPHANAGES; NOT ONLY DISTRIBUTING KING JAMES BIBLES & KING JAMES NEW TESTAMENTS--BUT ALSO CRYING OUT AGAINST APOSTATES LIKE "jim lincoln" !

17

News Item8/10/11 2:36 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
How street preaching should be done, Street Preaching -- C. H. Spurgeon which will not be the same as what is in church.

If a person is obnoxious and abusive he shouldn't be on the streets, he shouldn't be on the streets. The Word is suppose to be offensive to those who are perishing not those who expound on the Word.

1 Peter 2
19 For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a man bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly.
20 For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God.---NASB

A somewhat secular view of Expository Preaching

Wikipedia wrote:
[Some advantages]: 1) The presentation of the entire content of an entire Bible passage is attempted regardless of the desires of the congregation. Hot topics and controversial topics may not be avoided; pandering is diminished. 2) The preacher is never be lost for a sermon subject. 3) The preacher is not left to guess the needs of his flock...
16

News Item8/10/11 1:40 PM
Street-Preacher  Find all comments by Street-Preacher
The Cure For Those Who Think Preaching Is EVER Boring Is To Listen To Some Really REALLY GOOD Street Preachers !

The One I Have In Mind Right Now Is Br. Ruben Israel.

Now He Is A STREET PREACHER !

I Know Alot Of You "Huffy" & "Stuffy" 'Proper-Pulpit-Etiquette' Advocates & 'Control-Freak' Culture-Controlled-Christians Will Chagrin & Chafe At Ruben Israel's Style & Method Of Preaching--But So Did Isaiah's, Jeremiah's, Ezekiel's, Amos' & John The Baptist's FOES--Yea, Even JESUS' Preaching Was EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE & CONTROVERSIAL: ESPECIALLY TO CHRIST'S ARCH-ENEMIES &
'PRISSY-SISSY-PROPPER' THEOLOGICALLY CONSERVATIVE & BIBLICAL-LITERALIST DETRACTORS LIKE THE SCRIBES & PHARISEES !

Just The Other Day I Saw A YouTube Video Of Ruben Israel & Our Fellow Street Preachers PUBLICLY SCOLDING, BERATING, REBUKING & "UPBRAIDING" THE ROMAN CATHOLIC ARCHBISHOP & HIS FELLOW "SCRIBES & PHARISEES (EVEN SADUCEES)" OF NEW ORLEANS !

AND THE BRETHREN WEREN'T EVEN ARRESTED &-OR CHARGED WITH "VERBAL-ASSAULT", "VERBAL-BATTERY", "DISTURBING THE PEACE" OR SOME OTHER PHONEY TRUMPED-UP CHARGE !

ANY TOM, DICK & HARRY CAN ASCEND A PULPIT & "PREACH" PEOPLE TO SLEEP:

***BUT THE MEN OF GOD WHO STREET PREACH LIKE BR. ISRAEL & OUR FELLOW SOLDIERS OF THE CROSS ARE REALLY NEEDED IN THESE LAST DAYS !

15

News Item8/10/11 12:44 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Some Preacher wrote:
Hi Michael; You might have been thinking of someone else. My post was not regarding what you were responding to.
I try to follow the example of the men you mentioned. What Martin Lloyd Jones would call "Men who aim at heat and light".
Some Preacher
Thanks for posting back. I apologize I didn't intend any missunderstanding, I was only attempting to engage in a bit of internet conversation on this topic of "firing boring preachers" as IMHO the aim of a preacher shouldn't be to: NOT BE BORING but to Glorify the Lord Jesus Christ, to so tell of Him in the Power of the Holy Spirit that people are so convicted of their sin against Him, they genuinely repent and so convicted that He is more than worthy to entrust the entirety of the life to Him, that they unconditionally believe in Him to save them and make them one of His faithful followers, according to all the God Himself reveals to us of Him in Scripture.

That said "Indifferent Listeners" would be another story as well.

14

News Item8/10/11 9:12 AM
Some Preacher  Find all comments by Some Preacher
Michael Hranek wrote:
Some Preacher
Let's be honest God has given humanity some exceptional preachers, and yes they have set a wonderfully high standard preachers ought to consider in sermon preparation (much of this must needs to be a lot of fervent praying) _ NO! Not to attempt to be someone we are not but to feed and let me stress feed, truly feed any who listen with the Word of God.
Hi Michael; You might have been thinking of someone else. My post was not regarding what you were responding to.
I try to follow the example of the men you mentioned. What Martin Lloyd Jones would call "Men who aim at heat and light".
13

News Item8/10/11 7:46 AM
boringbeliever  Find all comments by boringbeliever
Ever been under expository preaching of the word and been so blessed that you think somehow the Preacher had been informed of all your secret needs/desires and at that very moment is addressing them and providing amazing wonderful answers to your poor and needy soul! YOU KNOW that only God KNOWS those secrets, it is HE wonderfully and graciously ministering to your spirit through His poor yet choice instrument-the preacher!

You are so blessed and full of praise to God: 'Call upon me in the day of trouble I will deliver thee and thou shalt glorify me'

THEN you look around at other believers who sit almost asleep and bored. Some even moan at the content of the sermon.

Have you ever listened to a sermon via sermonaudio as though the entire sermon was actually appointed for your particular needs and your very heart is strangely warmed, yet the Preacher is in another country and probably none were so blessed by that very same sermon?

We should be very careful first examining our own hearts before being a critique of the Preacher. If others are being blessed under the same...then methinks I know where the obvious problem lies

Few beseech the Lord for a blessing from the preached word, few even pray for their preacher

TechnoGeek..excellent points

12

News Item8/10/11 5:19 AM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
I do not remember who made the statement and I may not quote it right from memory:

'The need in churches is expository preaching (doctrine) so understood and so felt that it sets people on fire for God.'

And I may add such preaching isn't coming from men pretending to be preachers who bore their audience and leave them spiritually starved and wondering why they bothered coming.

Some Preacher
Let's be honest God has given humanity some exceptional preachers, and yes they have set a wonderfully high standard preachers ought to consider in sermon preparation (much of this must needs to be a lot of fervent praying) _ NO! Not to attempt to be someone we are not but to feed and let me stress feed, truly feed any who listen with the Word of God.

IMHO this is an entirely doable thing in the Grace of God, for any preacher who knows in sound Biblical doctrine and in genuine personal experience what it means to be saved, to be born again, to be filled with the Spirit of God, and who is spending time in the Word and Prayer, not neglecting it, one who is growing in Grace and not imagining his seminary degree has made him arrive.

11

News Item8/9/11 7:15 PM
Some Preacher  Find all comments by Some Preacher
TechnoGeek wrote:
Have you noticed lately that with ubiquitous flatscreens, handhelds, 24/7 access to sermons and videos that most Sunday sermons appear lackluster? Even megachurch pastors are dull.
Hasn't our technology dramatically raised our minimum expectations to include "All Time Top Sermons." If your pastor's sermons are not consistently worldclass, you look for greener pastures.
Perhaps being plugged into technology during our waking hours makes almost all preachers seem "boring."
It's not that "boring" preachers should be fired, but that we should unpulg from all of this machinery that could be destroying our very soul.
Very good observation Techno. People don't even live real lives in any area anymore. They are all stuck inside an electronic box. The other day I went into a Sunday school room and all the kids were on their gadgets. No one was doing any fellowship withe their "friends" that were right there in from of them. After the services, everyone (young and old alike) gets on their i phones in a panic lest they have missed something important.
10

News Item8/9/11 2:32 PM
preparation  Find all comments by preparation
Whether the sin be in the ministry or in the hearers, I was recently reminded in a sermon of Richard Rogers on Judges 2:1-5 What a dangerous thing sin is. Not only the committing of it which one would think fearful enough but men are not afterward able to rise out of it and repent at their pleasure. Even a troubled conscience is not enough, they have not the power to humble their hearts and bewail their sin to God. And 'if' they come to themselves after a time, it is by God's preventing of them working godly and not worldly sorrow in their hearts. 2 Cor. 7:10-11 "For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter."
9

News Item8/9/11 2:17 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
I think some of you come close to the idea that perhaps bored congregations should be fired?

2 Timothy 4
2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires;
4 and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths.
5 But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.---NASB

I have heard preachers that are as entertaining as the late Paul Harvey and have no more substance when it comes to Christianity then he rarely had.

If you want to get to the meat of the Word, you need expositional preaching, The Ministry God Entrusted to the Church.

8

News Item8/9/11 12:35 PM
preparation  Find all comments by preparation
Crosskeys wrote:
"For example a Scottish congregations response is different from an American one. The Scots tend to be quiet and subdued throughout the sermon."
I have found that the praise of the Scottish Kirk's children, even in America comes from the Scottish metrical psalter and the faces of the hearers would best be observed by the reader and would be a better indicator of the Spirit's work in their midst because their outward demeanor is quiet and subdued. I know not what American church you observed, possibly the RPCNA?
7

News Item8/9/11 12:32 PM
TechnoGeek  Find all comments by TechnoGeek
Have you noticed lately that with ubiquitous flatscreens, handhelds, 24/7 access to sermons and videos that most Sunday sermons appear lackluster? Even megachurch pastors are dull.

Hasn't our technology dramatically raised our minimum expectations to include "All Time Top Sermons." If your pastor's sermons are not consistently worldclass, you look for greener pastures.

Perhaps being plugged into technology during our waking hours makes almost all preachers seem "boring."

It's not that "boring" preachers should be fired, but that we should unpulg from all of this machinery that could be destroying our very soul.

6

News Item8/9/11 12:07 PM
Crosskeys  Find all comments by Crosskeys
"congregations should connect their acts of praise and worship to the declaration of God’s wonderful acts about which they hear from the pulpit.”

Trueman here seems to be encouraging some sort of "charismatic" type response. He also appears to be putting an onus upon preachers which is irrelevant, indeed almost theatrical.

I have found that "acts of praise" are different in individuals and also different respnses come from different nations. For example a Scottish congregations response is different from an American one. The Scots tend to be quiet and subdued throughout the sermon.

5

News Item8/9/11 11:31 AM
preparation  Find all comments by preparation
"When a watch is out of repair we send it to the workman: we are His workmanship in Christ Jesus Ephes.2:10 God taketh it to His prerogative Lev.21:8 'I am the Lord that sanctifieth thee' Grace is His immediate creature; man's will contributeth nothing to the work but resistance and rebellion and outward means work not unless God put in with them; else why should the same word preached by the same minister work in some and harden others? All the difference arises from God's grace which acteth according to pleasure."
-Thomas Manton on Jude-
4

News Item8/9/11 10:58 AM
Sean Porterfield | New Hampshire  Contact via emailFind all comments by Sean Porterfield
First I'll mention that I do like Carl Trueman, and I don't agree with him particularly on this. However, I would like to point out some options:

1) Trutful dry preaching: the doctrine is right, however the preacher may not have a heart for it.

2) Passionate FALSE preaching: You know when people get all over excited and prideful talking about how Jesus got them a new car (prosperity gospel type).

3) Passionate True teaching: Where the preacher is passionate about the gospel, about good doctrine and isn't slumbersome and boring in delivering the message because of his passion.

3
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