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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA News
FRONT PAGE  |  9/1/2015
THURSDAY, AUG 4, 2011  |  16 comments  |  1 commentary
A New Kind of Pentecostal
To get into the minds of today's Pentecostals, visit a classroom of ministers in training, 20-somethings getting their first taste of practical ministry. Recently I posed several questions to a large group of them in one of my practicum classes: What are the changes going on among North American Pentecostal believers and Pentecostal churches today? In what ways does the new generation of Pentecostals differ from earlier generations? In what ways is it similar?

The first response was immediate. A young student named Emily said, "For years, Pentecostals had an inferiority complex. They felt as if they were the weird uncle of modern Christianity, as if they were not quite accepted by peer denominations. Today it is different. Pentecostal churches have become more accepted and now are part of mainstream Christianity. That may be good—in some ways, not so good." ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 16 user comment(s)
News Item8/7/11 4:10 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Ok, Mike. Of course it should be pointed out there are testimonies of Catholics being led to Christ using The Roman Catholic Bible. I mentioned this fellow several times or at least his comments on Bible versions (which as part of this message, I really don't need to get into), but of course a good accurate modern Bible such as The New American Standard Bible will always help a person to explain salvation that can only be gained in believing in Christ alone.
16

News Item8/6/11 6:13 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Jim Lincoln wrote:
Michael, I'm glad the right message was given to you by an old-time Pentecostal,
Jim
Maybe we should both check my previous posts to make sure I was saying what I thought I was. It was David Cloud who was led to Christ by a Pentecostal man. After being saved I found out some Pentecostals in my home town area had been praying for me for two years (at the request of my unsaved Roman Catholic brother - long story).

Oh! You might like this. During the time God was dealing with me, I bought a Bible, a NASB, and began reading it with the thought in mind, "If Jesus is the Son of God then what He says is important."

Like I said a long story with all sorts of characters and things God did in His Sovereign Grace to bring me to repentence and personal faith to accept His Son Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.

15

News Item8/6/11 3:53 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Michael, I'm glad the right message was given to you by an old-time Pentecostal, you will note even in this commentary, this fellow, Phil Johnson grew with Charismatics, and not hateful towards them at all, but he really does do an excellent job on why we should be Combating Charismatic Theology.

Phil is the aide-de-camp of John MacArthur, and John pointed out that he knows there are Pentecostals who are Christian, A Look at the Pentecostal/Charismatic Movement--Is It Biblical?

14

News Item8/6/11 11:18 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Crandol wrote:
1. I repeat ever heard of humility?
2. Tell you what I will reveal for you John......
3. "Teaching John" :- Reconciliation :-
Look how Reconciliation is done John, AND who does it....
My dear old Bro Crandol,

1. There is a difference between humility and false humility. If a person speaks the truth, it is not a sign of pride.

2. Are you sure you can reveal things to me? Somehow I thought that was the Spirit's work.

Howbeit, I am not thinking primarily of folks on this site, but those who are accepted in the Reformed churches and are given baptism and membership and roles in office.

3. Correct! This was the very verse I was thinking of. Now think about it brother, when you experienced the reconciliation of the Father by Jesus Christ and was saved by him, was your experience of HIM greater then than now? The reason I ask is because all most folks seem to do nowadays is talk and debate about theology, but never about the Lord Jesus Christ HIMSELF. They never talk about loving and worshipping HIM, or serving HIM.

They never mention the days when they seem to have lost his marvellous presence. But the humble ones like me do so.

13

News Item8/6/11 10:24 AM
Crandol  Find all comments by Crandol
John UK wrote:
1. And I am one of the few people in this world who looks at reality rather than a glossed-over false spirituality.

2. Are you telling me that the Reformed churches are in a splendid spiritual condition?

3. The theology is fine....
But the Frenchy Flag Flyers have lost the very heart of Christianity - RECONCILIATION with Almighty God. Whoever heard of a reconciliation on paper but no ACTUAL reconciliation?

1. I repeat ever heard of humility?

2. Tell you what I will reveal for you John. There are many people who call themselves Christian - and are not! AND there are many people who go to church and are not true believers. AND there are many who call themselves Calvinist and wouldn't know the true theological position from ballet dancing. (Some of these have posted on here and called themself Calvinist).

3. "Teaching John" :- Reconciliation :-
Look how Reconciliation is done John, AND who does it....
2Cor 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."

12

News Item8/6/11 10:04 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Crandol wrote:
Ever heard of humility John??
Sure!

And I am one of the few people in this world who looks at reality rather than a glossed-over false spirituality.

Are you telling me that my thesis is not accurate? Are you telling me that the Reformed churches are in a splendid spiritual condition? You reckon there is no need for any improvement? Sure you are, and that is why no improvement will ever be seen. When was the last time you saw a convert? Get into the truth instead of a dream world, and fortunes will change.

Your response is typical of the Reformed Church today. Folks like you are everywhere, spoiling the churches and grieving the Spirit by your denial of him experientially, unlike Matty Ingleesi Henry, who knew better.

The theology is fine, the confessions accurate, statements of faith are true, the biblical understanding is correct. But the Frenchy Flag Flyers have lost the very heart of Christianity - RECONCILIATION with Almighty God. Whoever heard of a reconciliation on paper but no ACTUAL reconciliation?

Now if you wish to debate my points, please stick to them instead of unjustly calling me "holier than thou" and wasting unnecessary words.

11

News Item8/6/11 9:25 AM
Crandol  Find all comments by Crandol
John UK wrote:
the Reformed community is now predominantly intellectual and unspiritual, having abandoned the Holy Ghost religion for Calvin's Institutes and a BA in religious studies.
Well well well if it isn't the perfect holier than thou John UK delivering another theological judgment on whatever Christian group upsets him!
Is this why the term "frenchy" has emerged on the board John. In your superior doctrinal, ecclesiastical, Scriptural, theological expertise you have rejected another Christian group into oblivion. It is a good job we have you to correct us and enlighten us with your vast store of erudition.

Ever heard of humility John??

If you disagree with the Reformed Church John that is ok. We have accepted that! But if you don't comprehend anothers Christian perspective - it is not very Christian of you to deprecate and derogate them in public.

With the Pentecostal 'church' we can easily perceive their heresies and errors, but perhaps you need to declare these theological indiscretions of the "Reformed Church" which you have identified.

10

News Item8/6/11 5:20 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Michael Hranek wrote:
I am simply not going to argue with you over old timey Pentecostals.
For whatever faults they have (had) some of them interceded for me for two years that God would save me (something the Presbyterian/Reformed Crowd who knew me weren't doing) AND for my part I know the merciful things He did to bring me to Salvation.
Besides this, I am compelled to remember how David Cloud, a KJV Only, Fundamentalist Baptist has testified it was an "old timey Pentecostal man" who patiently with what the Bible says led him to the Lord.....
It is a shame bro that the majority will ignore testimony such as this, and anathematise any who hold not to the WCF. The Lord Jesus is not impressed.

"Reformed" today is not the same as "Reformed" of yesteryear. No comparison, no contest. Neither is Pentecostalism the same today as in previous generations, when many Pentecostals were genuine born again believers.

Pentecostals are now charismatics, and the Reformed community is now predominantly intellectual and unspiritual, having abandoned the Holy Ghost religion for Calvin's Institutes and a BA in religious studies.

And this is why there is so little love in the churches. Agape is from the Lord himself. IMHO.

9

News Item8/5/11 10:34 PM
Frank | Clearwater, FL  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Michael Hranek wrote:
Frank
No, I am not going to say that.
AND if you will bear with me a bit to get this discussion somewhat back on thread.
IMHO the socially acceptable non-confrontational intellectual Baptist, like today's soclially acceptable cool fun Pentecostal is seriously out of step in what it means to be a believer and follower of the Lord Jesus Christ (like church going people are somehow ashamed of Jesus as He really is), as God's way and thoughts are way (and wonderfully) different from what the world around us loves and accepts.
We agree! Out of step is out of step regardless of who is doing the stepping. I seldom even think about the Pentecostal movement, but it did come up on this news site for some reason, But I do think often of those folks who are non-confrontational and yet name the name of Christ. One thing is for sure, Christ and His Apostles were certainly divisive and confrontational. I appreciate your kind response!

As an aside, I knew you wouldn't say that so my question wasn't really rhetorical.

8

News Item8/5/11 9:44 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Frank wrote:
....surely you aren't going to say that it was "this fellow" that had the power and not the words he read from scripture.
Frank
No, I am not going to say that.

AND if you will bear with me a bit to get this discussion somewhat back on thread.

IMHO the socially acceptable non-confrontational intellectual Baptist, like today's soclially acceptable cool fun Pentecostal is seriously out of step in what it means to be a believer and follower of the Lord Jesus Christ (like church going people are somehow ashamed of Jesus as He really is), as God's way and thoughts are way (and wonderfully) different from what the world around us loves and accepts.

7

News Item8/5/11 9:14 PM
Frank | Clearwater, FL  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Michael Hranek wrote:
Jim
Frank
I am simply not going to argue with you over old timey Pentecostals.
For whatever faults they have (had) some of them interceded for me for two years that God would save me
Michael, just to set the record straight as to what I am saying vesus what I am not saying. I was raised Catholic and then became agnostic. Through various aspects of the new age movement, I came to believe there was in fact something other than what I could see around me. After messing with the Mormons and JW, I was led to the Lord by what I assumed was this nice sincere Pentecostal fellow. The only thing I am sure about is that he worked at a Pentecostal/Charismatic TV station, now called CTN which is similar to TBN. But, I try my best not to interpret scripture solely or even primarily by my own experiences, although I'm sure we all do that on occasion. So, regardless of my experiences, they are still a works based movement that was built upon a false foundation (baptism in the Holy Spirit, etc.) and their doctrine will lead others astray. The fellow at CTN only discussed sin and Christ's sacrifice for me. Besides, surely you aren't going to say that it was "this fellow" that had the power and not the words he read from scripture.
6

News Item8/5/11 8:38 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Jim
Frank

I am simply not going to argue with you over old timey Pentecostals.

For whatever faults they have (had) some of them interceded for me for two years that God would save me (something the Presbyterian/Reformed Crowd who knew me weren't doing) AND for my part I know the merciful things He did to bring me to Salvation.

Besides this, I am compelled to remember how David Cloud, a KJV Only, Fundamentalist Baptist has testified it was an "old timey Pentecostal man" who patiently with what the Bible says led him to the Lord.....not into the errors of the Pentecostal movement.

Further, I am well aware there are all sorts of Pentecostal Type Believers including ones who believe in the eternal security of the believer and who utterly reject "The Word Faith Movement", Benny Hinn types, weird ungodly supposed revivals, and the Purpose Driven Movement too for that matter, and yes some I don't want to have anything to do with (another story)

So you all will just have to forgive me that I happen to thank God for the old timey Pentecostals He used in bringing me to Salvation, and excuse me if I don't take up rocks to stone'm all.

Besides, I would love to find what I posted earlier in today's "Baptist" churches, won't you? I've been told they used to be.

5

News Item8/5/11 6:15 PM
Frank | Clearwater, FL  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Jim Lincoln wrote:
Michael, the old time Pentecostals were in error too, Pentecostals just added to the error, such as the "latter rain," idea such as The Latter Rain Revival Movement You might even call that part of the "Modern Pentecostal Movement." But the lack of Proper Biblical Interpretation has always been the premier fault of the Pentecostal movement, and that was from the very beginning. Pentecostalism either old or new is just as bad Catholicism, both reject, "Only Scripture," "Only Christ," "Only Grace," "Only Faith," and "To God Alone Be Glory". So as such, neither are Christian -- no matter how emotional either group gets about their false faiths.
I agree Jim! The Pentecostal movement began in error and they have simply built on a faulty foundation ever since. Much of the heresy that is found in the "professing" church can be traced to this false signs and wonders ministry. Sincerity should never be a sign or a barometer of truth!
4

News Item8/5/11 2:54 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Michael, the old time Pentecostals were in error too, Pentecostals just added to the error, such as the "latter rain," idea such as The Latter Rain Revival Movement You might even call that part of the "Modern Pentecostal Movement." But the lack of Proper Biblical Interpretation has always been the premier fault of the Pentecostal movement, and that was from the very beginning. Pentecostalism either old or new is just as bad Catholicism, both reject, "Only Scripture," "Only Christ," "Only Grace," "Only Faith," and "To God Alone Be Glory". So as such, neither are Christian -- no matter how emotional either group gets about their false faiths.
3

News Item8/4/11 5:04 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Jim Lincoln
Personally I liked what I would call "the old timey Pentecostals" a whole lot better.

They like "old timey Baptists" put a primary importance on:

You MUST Be Born Again

A born again Child of God is to be Holy, and out of genuine passionate LOVE for the Savior live wonderfully different from the world, because our God is HOLY and greatly to be feared

And a child of God ought to read and study the Bible for themselves so they can live by what God Himself says and teaches us in the Bible, so they can quote it in their praises, their prayers and their witnessing of Christ because it is TRUTH, and man does not live on bread alone but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God

And born again children of God are to be a people of serious prayer and intercession and witnesses of the Risen Lord Jesus Christ, the only one who can save us from our sins, Because there is power in coming before the Father in His Name that He would hear and answer us.

2

News Item8/4/11 2:06 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Yes, they should still feel out of place, with Christians, apparently this group of Pentecostals still have realized what Proper Biblical Interpretation is. A woman studying to be a pastor? Women Preachers is not biblical and the whole Pentecostal is still not Christianity, We still have to keep Combating Charismatic Theology.

By the way, pick this book up somewhere! Charismatic Chaos. If you really don't want to part with several bucks then read the other selections found with, Does God Promise Health & Wealth? (Part 1 of 2). Not all the selections are there--the last time I looked--but most of them were, and then you'll know what is in John MacArthur's book Charismatic Chaos.

1
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