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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | Fridays | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  9/24/2017
TUESDAY, JUL 5, 2011  |  63 comments
Selling God
Rock music, electric guitars and even moshpits are luring more young people to church – but away from traditional worship. Steve Kilgallon investigates the rise of religion as entertainment, and the changing face of Christianity in New Zealand.

There's pandemonium at Vector Arena. Hundreds have been turned away and inside every seat is taken. An unshaven singer, in regulation black, grabs the microphone and asks the audience to dance. Hundreds of kids race to the front, and begin to mosh. Then he begins to sing about Jesus.

This is the new way of selling religion. And that capacity crowd, gathered to see American revivalist preacher Greg Laurie tell them how they can be reborn, is remarkably fresh-faced. ...


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
www.stuff.co.nz

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 63 user comment(s)
News Item7/11/11 10:46 AM
Street-Preacher  Find all comments by Street-Preacher
When I Said "THE+HISTORIC+AUTHORIZED+HOLY+BIBLE" I Wasn't Referring So Much To THE KING JAMES BIBLE--As I Was Referring To THE HISTORIC O.T.-N.T. TEXTUS-RECEPTUS &-OR THE MIDDLE-EASTERN, JUDEAN & BYZANTINE O.T.-N.T. HEBREW-ARAMAIC-GREEK BIBLICAL MANUSCRIPTS !

Since ENGLISH Is The MOST Universal ("Catholic"--NOT SATANIC+VATICANIST) Language In The World--I EMPHASIZE THE+HISTORIC+AUTHORIZED+HOLY+BIBLE In The ENGLISH Language Known As: THE KING JAMES BIBLE !

IN THIS THE APOSTATE SATANIC+VATICAN & Jim Lincoln Are CLEARLY Manifest;

As THEY Stand With THE CORRUPT SATANIC EGYPTIAN-ALEXANDRIAN-ARIAN MSS & AGAINST GOD'S TRUE TEXTUS-RECEPTUS !

AND, Since SPANISH Is The 2nd MOST Universal Language In The World--I EMPHASIZE THE+HISTORIC+AUTHORIZED+HOLY+BIBLE In The SPANISH Language Commonly Called THE REINA-VALERA-ANTIGUA [(c)1602]:

THE+HISTORIC+AUTHORIZED+SPANISH+HOLY+BIBLE !

"ALL SCRIPTURE (THAT IS, ALL THE 66-BOOKS OF THE+HISTORIC+AUTHORIZED+HOLY+BIBLE) IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD..." 2 TIMOTHY 3:16

"FOR THERE ARE THREE THAT BEAR RECORD IN HEAVEN, THE FATHER, THE WORD, AND THE HOLY GHOST: AND THESE THREE ARE ONE." 1 JOHN 5:7

*SATAN'S EVIL NASB CHOPPED-OUT 1 JOHN 5:7 !

**THE SATANIC+VATICAN, Jim Lincoln & THE NASB ARE UNDER GOD'S CURSE OF REVELATION 22:18-19 !

63

News Item7/7/11 2:44 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
On can very well ask about the validity of revival and revival meetings., q.v., A Closer Look at Revival and Revival Meetings, or listen to, Theology of Experience vs. Scripture.

In any event, humans can't revive that which is dead, nor do the living (those in Christ) need any reviving.

62

News Item7/7/11 3:28 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Deep in History wrote:
Sproul explained why every word about Jesus in the 4th Century "Nicene Creed" is critical to precisely define Jesus' divinity and humanity necessary for our salvation.
Not critical at all.

Think on the words of Saul of Tarsus:

At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Acts 26:13-18 KJV

"Who art thou, LORD?"

61

News Item7/7/11 2:39 AM
Deep in History  Find all comments by Deep in History
The Master's Slave wrote:
I guess the better question that needs to asked to you in light of Scripture is do you believe Jesus Christ is Lord?
Yes one must: "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved, you and your house."

The harder question as Dr. R. C. Sproul Sr. explained it in his "Christology" Sunday School course, years ago, was: Do you believe on the right Jesus?

Sproul explained why every word about Jesus in the 4th Century "Nicene Creed" is critical to precisely define Jesus' divinity and humanity necessary for our salvation.

60

News Item7/7/11 2:08 AM
The Master's Slave | Canada  Contact via emailFind all comments by The Master's Slave
Deep in History wrote:
John 3 is very significant to the whole council of God.
However, does John 3 answer all of these questions?
(a.) Is Jesus a man?
(b.) Is Jesus a god?
(c.) Is Jesus The God?
(d.) Is Jesus of one substance with the Father?
(e.) Was Jesus begotten?
(f.) If (e.), how does the passage define "begotten"?
(g.) How exactly did Jesus get here?
If John 3 is the common Protestant gospel summary, does it answer these questions?
If not, how do we know that we're following the true biblical Jesus and not merely following a heretical and false teaching about him?
I guess the better question that needs to asked to you in light of Scripture is do you believe Jesus Christ is Lord?
59

News Item7/6/11 8:52 PM
Gospel  Find all comments by Gospel
Mike wrote:
It's good to know there is agreement that those necessary truths are found "in some place of Scripture or other..." such that even the unlearned "may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them."
Hidden among a million words are the Gospel bullet points?

Why would God make it so hard for millions of illiterate to access the Gospel summary?

58

News Item7/6/11 7:12 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
truth is perceived wrote:
A curious thing about creeds and confessions is that they reveal quite a lot about 'readers' too, when they express their views of them.
It seems from some statements today that many "expert readers" believe that the truth was not found until recent modern times.
Sola Scriptura does not mean the believer cannot discern the truth and write it down - in any century.
WCF 1
"All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all;a yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed, for salvation, are so clearly propounded and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them.b"
a. 2 Pet 3:16.
b. Psa 119:105, 130.
It's good to know there is agreement that those necessary truths are found "in some place of Scripture or other..." such that even the unlearned "may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them."
57

News Item7/6/11 6:56 PM
Street-Preacher  Find all comments by Street-Preacher
When I Said "THE+HISTORIC+AUTHORIZED+HOLY+BIBLE" I Wasn't Referring So Much To THE KING JAMES BIBLE--As I Was Referring To THE HISTORIC O.T. & N.T. TEXTUS-RECEPTUS &-OR THE MIDDLE-EASTERN, JUDEAN & BYZANTINE O.T. & N.T. HEBREW-ARAMAIC-GREEK BIBLICAL MANUSCRIPTS !

Since ENGLISH Is The MOST Universal ("Catholic"--NOT SATANIC+VATICANIST) Language In The World--I EMPHASIZED THE+HISTORIC+AUTHORIZED+HOLY+BIBLE In The ENGLISH Language Known As: THE KING JAMES BIBLE !

IN THIS THE APOSTATE SATANIC+VATICAN & Jim Lincoln Are CLEARLY Manifest; As They BOTH Stand With THE CORRUPT SATANIC EGYPTIAN-ALEXANDRIAN-ARIAN MSS & AGAINST THE TRUE TEXTUS-RECEPTUS !

AND, Since SPANISH Is The 2nd MOST Universal Language In The World--I EMPHASIZE THE+HISTORIC+AUTHORIZED+HOLY+BIBLE In The SPANISH Language: Commonly Known Throughout The SPANISH Speaking World As: THE REINA-VALERA (1602):
THE+HISTORIC+AUTHORIZED+SPANISH+HOLY+BIBLE !

"EL LIBRO DE AQUESTA LEY NUNCA SE APARTARA DE TU BOCA: ANTES DE DIA Y DE NOCHE MEDITARAS EN EL, PARA QUE GUARDES Y HAGAS CONFORME A TODO LO QUE EN EL ESTA ESCRITO: PORQUE ENTONCES HARAS PROSPERAR TU CAMINO, Y TODO TE SALDRA BIEN. JOSUE 1:8

"PORQUE TRES SON LOS QUE DAN TESTIMONIO EN EL CIELO, EL PADRE, EL VERBO, Y EL ESPIRITU SANTO: Y ESTOS TRES SON UNO." 1 JUAN 5:7

56

News Item7/6/11 4:27 PM
truth is perceived  Find all comments by truth is perceived
Mike wrote:
Funny thing about creeds. They often say more about the writers than they do about the gospel.
A curious thing about creeds and confessions is that they reveal quite a lot about 'readers' too, when they express their views of them.

It seems from some statements today that many "expert readers" believe that the truth was not found until recent modern times.

Sola Scriptura does not mean the believer cannot discern the truth and write it down - in any century.

WCF 1
"All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all;a yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed, for salvation, are so clearly propounded and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them.b"

a. 2 Pet 3:16.
b. Psa 119:105, 130.

55

News Item7/6/11 2:29 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Well, we Anglos who aren't of the Identity: A 'Christian' Religion for White Racists, and/or know something about Bible versions, q.v., Comparing Bible Translations. Aren't tied to the AV at all, and much prefer something else.

But Spanish speaking people certainly can get an excellent version of the Bible in La Biblia de las Américas. This particular description is in English, so Anglophones can see what an excellent Bible that it is.

54

News Item7/6/11 1:54 PM
Street-Preacher  Find all comments by Street-Preacher
KJV wrote:
what about the billions of non-English readers? What translations *must* they...read?
"kjv", When I Said "THE+HISTORIC+AUTHORIZED+HOLY+BIBLE" I Wasn't Referring So Much To THE KING JAMES BIBLE--As I Was Referring To THE HISTORIC O.T. & N.T. TEXTUS-RECEPTUS &-OR THE MIDDLE-EASTERN, JUDEAN & BYZANTINE O.T. & N.T. HEBREW-ARAMAIC-GREEK BIBLICAL MANUSCRIPTS !

Since ENGLISH Is The MOST Universal ("Catholic") Language On Planet Earth--I EMPHASIZED THE+HISTORIC+AUTHORIZED+HOLY+BIBLE In The ENGLISH Language Known As: THE KING JAMES BIBLE !

Now, Since SPANISH Is The 2nd MOST Universal Language On Planet Earth--I EMPHASIZE THE+HISTORIC+AUTHORIZED+HOLY+BIBLE In The SPANISH Language: Commonly Known Throughout The SPANISH Speaking World As: THE REINA-VALERA (1602):

THE+HISTORIC+AUTHORIZED+SPANISH+HOLY+BIBLE !

"EL LIBRO DE AQUESTA LEY NUNCA SE APARTARA DE TU BOCA: ANTES DE DIA Y DE NOCHE MEDITARAS EN EL, PARA QUE GUARDES Y HAGAS CONFORME A TODO LO QUE EN EL ESTA ESCRITO: PORQUE ENTONCES HARAS PROSPERAR TU CAMINO, Y TODO TE SALDRA BIEN. JOSUE 1:8

"PORQUE TRES SON LOS QUE DAN TESTIMONIO EN EL CIELO, EL PADRE, EL VERBO, Y EL ESPIRITU SANTO: Y ESTOS TRES SON UNO." 1 JUAN 5:7

"JESUCRISTO ES EL MISMO AYER, Y HOY, Y POR LOS SIGLOS." HEBREROS 13:8

53

News Item7/6/11 1:30 PM
KJV  Find all comments by KJV
Street-Preacher wrote:
NAY, BUT THIS IS WHY YOU MUST HAVE THE+HISTORIC+AUTHORIZED+HOLY+BIBLE FOR YOUR AUTHORITY:
"THIS BOOK (THE+HISTORIC+AUTHORIZED+HOLY+BIBLE
As much as we Anglos all love the KJV, what about the billions of non-English readers?

What translations *must* they take up and read?

52

News Item7/6/11 1:03 PM
Street-Preacher  Find all comments by Street-Preacher
John UK wrote:
The "true biblical Jesus" is the one found from Genesis to Revelation. Heretical and false teaching about him comes from heretics and false teachers. This is why you must have the Bible for your authority.
NAY, BUT THIS IS WHY YOU MUST HAVE THE+HISTORIC+AUTHORIZED+HOLY+BIBLE FOR YOUR AUTHORITY:

"THIS BOOK (THE+HISTORIC+AUTHORIZED+HOLY+BIBLE [IN ENGLISH: THE KING JAMES BIBLE]) OF THE LAW SHALL NOT DEPART OUT OF THY MOUTH; BUT THOU SHALT MEDITATE THEREIN DAY AND NIGHT, THAT THOU MAYEST OBSERVE TO DO ACCORDING TO ALL THAT IS WRITTEN THEREIN: FOR THEN THOU SHALT MAKE THY WAY PROSPEROUS, AND THEN THOU SHALT HAVE GOOD SUCCESS." JOSHUA 1:8

ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD, AND IS PROFITABLE FOR DOCTRINE, FOR REPROOF, FOR CORRECTION, FOR INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS:

THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE PERFECT, THROUGHLY FURNISHED UNTO ALL GOOD WORKS." 2 TIMOTHY 3:16-17

FOR THERE ARE THREE THAT BEAR RECORD IN HEAVEN, THE FATHER, THE WORD, AND THE HOLY GHOST: AND THESE THREE ARE ONE." I JOHN 5:7

"WE HAVE ALSO A MORE SURE WORD OF PROPHECY; WHEREUNTO YE DO WELL THAT YE TAKE HEED, AS UNTO A LIGHT THAT SHINETH IN A DARK PLACE, UNTIL THE DAY DAWN, AND THE DAY STAR ARISE IN YOUR HEARTS:

KNOWING THIS FIRST, THAT..." 2 PETER 1:19-20 !

51

News Item7/6/11 12:23 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Deep in History wrote:
....how do we know that we're following the true biblical Jesus and not merely following a heretical and false teaching about him?
The "true biblical Jesus" is the one found from Genesis to Revelation. Heretical and false teaching about him comes from heretics and false teachers.

This is why you must have the Bible for your authority.

50

News Item7/6/11 12:18 PM
Street-Preacher  Find all comments by Street-Preacher
allan wrote:
I'm not...reading the other posts. Street-Preacher...
Sorry "allan", But You Should Learn To Street-Preach. It'll Not Only Make A "Man" Out Of You--But It's An AUTHORIZED-BIBLICAL Means Of
"Mak(ing) Full Proof Of [Your] Ministry" (If You Even Have One--IF You're A TRUE CHRITIAN) !

Back When I Was A Student @ BJU, I Remember Dr. McAllister In My "Personal Evangelism" Class Telling Me About The "Suburban 'Christian' Weenies"--That They Need To Do Some Good-Old-Fashioned "Street-Preaching".

I Thoroughly Concurred, Telling Him National Revival Would Break Out If ALL Did It In Every Major U.S. City, Every Weekend, For 3 Straight Years !

As Far As Christian "Etiquette" Is Concerned, I Love What Dr. John R. Rice Said: "You Can't Make A Silk Purse Out Of A Sow's Ear--And If You Did, It's STILL A SOW'S EAR !

Etiquette NEVER Made A CHRISTIAN A "BETTER" CHRISTIAN--NOR A "BETTER" SOUL-WINNER !

IT TAKES THE ANOINTING & POWER OF GOD, THE HOLY SPIRIT TO BE A "BETTER" CHRISTIAN & A "BETTER" SOUL-WINNER !

Meanwhile, I'll Still UNETIQUETTELY Street Preach-Prokerusso:

"THIS BOOK (THE KING JAMES BIBLE) OF THE LAW SHALL NOT DEPART OUT OF THY MOUTH, BUT THOU SHALT MEDITATE THEREIN DAY AND NIGHT; THAT THOU MAYEST OBSERVE TO DO..." JOSHUA 1:8

49

News Item7/6/11 12:07 PM
Deep in History  Find all comments by Deep in History
The Master's Slave wrote:
Please read this following article on this subject and hopefully through the Holy Spirit, your eyes will be opened.
http://revivalandreformation.wordpress.com/2011/07/06/john-3-who-is-the-son/
John 3 is very significant to the whole council of God.

However, does John 3 answer all of these questions?

(a.) Is Jesus a man?
(b.) Is Jesus a god?
(c.) Is Jesus The God?
(d.) Is Jesus of one substance with the Father?
(e.) Was Jesus begotten?
(f.) If (e.), how does the passage define "begotten"?
(g.) How exactly did Jesus get here?

If John 3 is the common Protestant gospel summary, does it answer these questions?

If not, how do we know that we're following the true biblical Jesus and not merely following a heretical and false teaching about him?

48

News Item7/6/11 11:46 AM
The Master's Slave | Canada  Contact via emailFind all comments by The Master's Slave
Deep in History wrote:
They've been discussing sola scriptura in this thread. To the person reading the Bible for the first time, where will she find "salvation by grace through faith alone in Christ alone"?
Also, in John 3:16, who exactly is the "son"?
If we ask certain Pentecostals they'll say there's only one person in the Trinity not 3. Are they saved despite not defining the "son" in relationship to the 4th Century defined Trinity?
Others will say the "son" was only a good man. Are these saved?
Without defining exactly who the "son" is in John 3:16, can it be a complete creedal salvific statement?
Since the Nicene Creed defines all of this, and has since the 4th Century, what Bible verse(s) or Reformation creed has superseded it?
Please read this following article on this subject and hopefully through the Holy Spirit, your eyes will be opened.

http://revivalandreformation.wordpress.com/2011/07/06/john-3-who-is-the-son/

47

News Item7/6/11 11:44 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
God is Love wrote:
If not the Nicene Creed, what is the common Protestant Gospel summary?
If the Nicene Creed, would it be the original, or that with later added paragraphs? That written with, or without "the Son"?

Funny thing about creeds. They often say more about the writers than they do about the gospel.

46

News Item7/6/11 11:07 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Deep in History wrote:
They've been discussing sola scriptura in this thread. To the person reading the Bible for the first time, where will she find "salvation by grace through faith alone in Christ alone"?
Also, in John 3:16, who exactly is the "son"?
If we ask certain Pentecostals they'll say there's only one person in the Trinity not 3. Are they saved despite not defining the "son" in relationship to the 4th Century defined Trinity?
Others will say the "son" was only a good man. Are these saved?
Without defining exactly who the "son" is in John 3:16, can it be a complete creedal salvific statement?
Since the Nicene Creed defines all of this, and has since the 4th Century, what Bible verse(s) or Reformation creed has superseded it?
1. Ephesians 2:8
2. Jesus, the Son of God
3. No-one understands the Trinity. If these folks are called of God and justified by faith in the Son of God and his finished work, they are saved and will later be taught and realise that God is One in Three.
4. No
5. The whole Bible is the Word of God to man regarding these things, so No, of course not.
6. The Nicene Creed is helpful but not authoritative; same with all other creeds and confessions. The Bible is where you must go for authority.
45

News Item7/6/11 10:40 AM
Deep in History  Find all comments by Deep in History
John UK wrote:
I don't know about the Protestant one, but mine is:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16 KJV
This is the gospel message of salvation by grace through faith alone in Christ alone.
They've been discussing sola scriptura in this thread. To the person reading the Bible for the first time, where will she find "salvation by grace through faith alone in Christ alone"?

Also, in John 3:16, who exactly is the "son"?

If we ask certain Pentecostals they'll say there's only one person in the Trinity not 3. Are they saved despite not defining the "son" in relationship to the 4th Century defined Trinity?

Others will say the "son" was only a good man. Are these saved?

Without defining exactly who the "son" is in John 3:16, can it be a complete creedal salvific statement?

Since the Nicene Creed defines all of this, and has since the 4th Century, what Bible verse(s) or Reformation creed has superseded it?

44
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