Richard Dawkins accused of cowardice for refusing to debate existence of God
Richard Dawkins has made his name as the scourge of organised religion who branded the Roman Catholic Church “evil” and once called the Pope “a leering old villain in a frock”.
But he now stands accused of “cowardice” after refusing four invitations to debate the existence of God with a renowned Christian philosopher.
A war of words has broken out between the best selling author of The God Delusion, and his critics, who see his refusal to take on the American academic, William Lane Craig, as a “glaring” failure and a sign that he may be losing his nerve.
Prof Dawkins maintains that Prof Craig is not a figure worthy of his attention and has reportedly said that such a contest would “look good” on his opponent’s CV but not on his own....
I have seen Mr. Dawkins debate several people from theologians to his own brother and, for the life of me, I can't figure out why a biologist would want to debate on a theological/philosophical issue any more than a theologian would want to argue about the process of mitosis or plasmid formation. As such, I no longer waste my time listening to the attempted intimidation by a bitter person who has nothing really to say to refute intelligent intervention in the creation process. I wonder it that is why we are saved by faith and not by observation?
FAS wrote: If the Bible alone is the sole source of Truth, locating Church and salvation, why would he want to add to the Bible by listening to a sermon, reading the WCF or another form of modern or ancient tradition?
Because the Bible is the Word of God and teaches "church" - "Teachers" - "Preachers".........
Now a little english comprehension question - What do "teachers" and "preachers" do???
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ"
Now FAS if you have any problems with the english here don't hesitate to ask.
FAS wrote: Do we have the courage to ask these "really awkward" questions for the sake of the truth, the unborn and our denominations?
Well here are some people who do. And it is interesting to see them quoting John Calvin and Matthew Poole on this subject even though the person I think was Roman Catholic. Maybe that's the way to get prods to listen.
However, I should take his claim to be Christian (and former Protestant pastor) with a pinch of the proverbial.
Allan M wrote: If an alien landed on earth, he would never be able to be saved.
Oh no! I Knew I shouldn't have landed. Maybee we could have been saved if we had just remained in orbit. But the ship needed repairs, and we are still waiting for the parts to arrive.
By the way, people on our planet do not believe in athiest.
If an alien landed on earth, he would never be able to be saved. Why? Because he wasn't human. The only way God saved sinners was to take on human form to pay the price for a human sin. For this reason the Bible shows that not one single angel will be forgiven or saved from their sin.
Now as to how one knows if a Church is good or not, such as the RCC... one sits and reads the scripture. And then one asks what their church teaches. And then one compares the Bible to the teachings of the church they are in. In the case of the RCC it is easy to compare such things as mother worship, eating of one's god, idolitary, praying to the dead (necromancy), and so on and then see what Scripture has to say on these matters.
Christianity is not a blind religion of obedience. It is a thinking 'reckon ye' (Romans) state where the person investigates and studies and makes informed decisions. The whole point of keeping the blasphemous mass in Latin was so that the people did not have access to the Word of God in a language they could study and understand. Otherwise they might walk out. Which many did the very moment the Bible was translated into their own tongue, for that reason.
Once people understand the meaning of terms like hoc est corpus then they discover a lot of irrational hocus
And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid [him] not: for he that is not against us is for us. (Luke 9:49-50)
Since this is a Remnant "solas" site many of the pastors and broadcasters here would also subscribe to Sola Scriptura -- the "Bible alone."
However, if a listener also subscribed to Sola Scriptura, why would he ever desire to know God better, find the True Church or ensure his salvation by actually listening to these -- or for that matter -- any sermons? Doesn't Sola Scriptura require that he read the Bible alone to attain its wisdom?
If the Bible alone is the sole source of Truth, locating Church and salvation, why would he want to add to the Bible by listening to a sermon, reading the WCF or another form of modern or ancient tradition?
To be honest, if one's an avid adherent to Sola Scriptura, wouldn't he be more akin to a Desert Father -- totally isolated with his Bible alone -- far, far away from any other non-biblical influences like preaching, teaching or commentaries?
Otherwise isn't one really and ultimately a Bible + tradition Christian?
2Thes.2:1-12... Read it all "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means:...
...Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
FAS wrote: --- Then, why would the alien be damned if Christ called him to Himself, he said "Jesus is Lord" with his lips and then joined the RCC?
If Christ called him to Himself, he would be given clarity to see contradiction between the RCC and what Jesus himself says. This does not demean the sincerity of RC's, but questions their understanding of their own religion.
FAS you are running out of ideas. Why not come right out with it and state your case? Are you another John Yurich? Have YOU said that "sinner's prayer" and imagined you were now born again, because CCC told you so?
Don't forget that there is in christendom a vast ecumenical movement which purports to be Christian, and resembles Christian, and has Christian worship and Christian Bibles (?) and churches and memberships and conferences and ordained ministers. But it is all apostate.
Nobody, but nobody, who holds to the confession of this website, accepts the ecumenical movement as Christian. And nobody here accepts the Roman Catholic Church as Christian. Rather, if you take the trouble to investigate the sermons available, you will find enough material to last you years, proving that the RCC is antichrist.
This site is dedicated to "THE REMNANT", a body of true believers of various different churches and different distinctives and secondary doctrines, but united in the primary thing, the doctrine of JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH ALONE IN CHRIST ALONE. And because that doctrine is not heard EVER in a RCC, a believer could NOT stay there.
EP wrote: The National Covenant of Scotland has gone into the greatest detail to decry all the wicked abominations or the Harlot Church of Rome...
If an alien lands on Earth, is directed by God to discover that Christianity provides the way to Heaven and finds a Bible to read by the hand of the Holy Spirit, how does he get out of his Bible that the RCC is the "Harlot Church of Rome"?
Instead, wouldn't he eventually read these verses (among many others)?:
* "[I]f thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved" (Romans 10:9).
* "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together" (Hebrews 10:25).
* "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matthew 16:18).
* "Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you" (John 6:53).
Then, why would the alien be damned if Christ called him to Himself, he said "Jesus is Lord" with his lips and then joined the RCC?
FAS wrote: ....does it matter which denomination he's in? (e.g., ECUSA, PCUSA, UCC, ELCA, SBC, PCA, OPC, RCC, EC, home church or no church at all).
If it does matter, which of these denominations must he be in to be saved?
Sounds like you are one of these salvation by works followers FAS!!
The way you have formed your question suggests human choice. Thus you have excluded the Lord.
Lets include the Lord this time.
God has a purpose on earth which includes witness - the witness of the truth and His Holy Word.
Thus the Lord leads His disciples to provide HIS witness in the Biblical way of truth.
The elect of God are brought to the witness of God in the name of Christ Jesus.
The Roman Catholic anti-christ is not used by the Lord since they are obviously idolatrous with all their graven images. The disciple of Christ does not enter therein.
The denomination of God is invisible on earth but does not defeat the ends nor the purposes of God.
The elect stand together with Christ, whilst on earth, in witness, faith and truth.
But 25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye
The National Covenant of Scotland has gone into the greatest detail to decry all the wicked abominations or the Harlot Church of Rome, even greater detail that yours Michael. There was no doubt nor vacillation on that Reformed Church's position as regards the errors of Rome. And Scotland's finest men and women stood to their vows against her encroachment in Church and State unto death. 'A Cloud Of Witnesses' shows the bravest affections for Christ and their ability to pardon personal offense, all the while acknowledging the justice of God for avenging his own offended Diety. Golden.
FAS wrote: Then, if one of these stumbles into a RCC and years later bothers to become a member, does his membership vow somehow damn him?
Certainly. He was damned before, and he was damned afterward.
Let me explain. Christianity is a supernatural experience. It is God calling his elect people to himself by THE GOSPEL, preached by man but effectual by the power of the Holy Ghost. The Spirit convicts and converts the sinner, not in the sinner's time but in his own time. He draws the sinner to Christ for salvation. He brings forth repentance from the sinner, who thus forward will not commit sin habitually. He brings forth faith in Christ, a lifelong faith because authored by God himself. The Lord asures the new convert by his indwelling Spirit, this Spirit teaching and enlightening the new saint further. This Spirit leads and guides the new saint, not only into all truth, but also in the general details of life; not merely by his voice, but also by the word of God which liveth and abideth ever.
So you see, the Christian does not stumble into churches or stumble into membership of heretical churches. Perhaps short term, but the Lord will always lead his people out of such.
Dawkins started it by branding the Roman Catholic Church “evil” and calling the Pope “a leering old villain.”
If a person prayed this prayer (below) or something like it, isn't he saved? Likewise, wasn't the thief on the cross saved by loving Christ this way, too?
Now if you're saved and you know this beyond a shadow of a doubt, do you even need to go to a church? The thief didn't. Millions have prayed this prayer, are saved beyond a reasonable doubt yet never darken the door of any denomination. Perhaps they're part of a home church, watch Christian broadcasting or listen to SermonAudio.com sermons. Would these ultimately be damned?
Then, if one of these stumbles into a RCC and years later bothers to become a member, does his membership vow somehow damn him?
Finally, if I can sit on my sofa on Sunday mornings and be saved, why would I be damned if I get off my duff to join the RCC?
abcdefg wrote: Exodus 20:7-11 "Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain." NT-Book of Romans and Hebrews for starters.
abcdefg It is staggering to me of how grieveous a sin idolatry is: a sin of those who actually hate God.
And IMHO it is frightfull how sincere RC people continually worship a lifeless piece of bread as if it is Jesus Christ Himself present in His own body and blood, even ignoring Jesus made a distinction between the bread and the wine. But it doesn't stop there, they worship Their Lady the Queen of Heaven, call their pope "Holy Father" which is like calling the Pope God. And imagine if they are not good enough Purgatory but oh no NOT hell.
FAS wrote: Where in your Bible does it say you can't worship at a church with a "Mass," priest, etc?
Exodus 20:7-11 "Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain."
John UK wrote: There's a bit more information required FAS before I could attempt to answer this question. For example: If the person is in the RCC (denomination?), is he attending The Mass and taking the bread and wine, in accordance with the priest's beliefs? If yes, he was misguided as to his salvation. If no, what on earth is he doing there?
John UK Good post
FAS We are getting a bit afield from Dawkins refusing to debate the existence of God.
But here is very interesting point John UK has already posted to you of what being a genuine Christian is about not the religious silliness some pretend to be evangelism you've just refered to. Curious why did you do that? Is it because you don't want to face what truly being a child of God, saved by God and for God is about?
The bottom line is what does the Bible say
2 John 9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
The RCC has long ago departed from Christ for Mary etc. etc.
Wasn't the person saved the moment he prayed a prayer like this?:
You Can Receive Christ Right Now by Faith Through Prayer (Prayer is talking with God)
God knows your heart and is not so concerned with your words as He is with the attitude of your heart. The following is a suggested prayer:
Lord Jesus, I need You. Thank You for dying on the cross for my sins. I open the door of my life and receive You as my Savior and Lord. Thank You for forgiving my sins and giving me eternal life. Take control of the throne of my life. Make me the kind of person You want me to be.
Does this prayer express the desire of your heart? If it does, I invite you to pray this prayer right now, and Christ will come into your life, as He promised.
"If you do not belong to a church, do not wait to be invited. Take the initiative; call the pastor of a nearby church where Christ is honored and His Word is preached. Start this week, and make plans to attend regularly."
Where in your Bible does it say you can't worship at a church with a "Mass," priest, etc?
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Dr. Bill Jones | 6/18/2008
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christopher000 from rhode island: "mike wrote:
'let me guess, she would also deny..."
