Charles Wesley on ‘The cause and cure of earthquakes’
Charles Wesley
Friday’s massive earthquake in Japan raises an age-old question: Is God is the author of “natural disasters”? Methodist co-founder Charles Wesley spoke to this question in a sermon first delivered in 1750, an edited text of which is below.
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Whatever the natural cause of earthquakes may be, sin is the moral cause. This cannot be denied by any who believe the Scriptures.
Jandl510 wrote: Bumper sticker theology can offer a wonderful perspective sometimes. Try these: "I chose to be a Calvinist!" "I was predestined to be an Arminian." Let's argue in Love.
And to think that pastors could have saved tens of thousands of dollars on books and school, as well as tens of thousands of hours studying the scripture and praying, by just looking at Bumperstickers, and reading Blogs.
Jandl510 wrote: Bumper sticker theology can offer a wonderful perspective sometimes. Try these: "I chose to be a Calvinist!" "I was predestined to be an Arminian."
Street-Preacher wrote: Don't Worry "ynot", You're Included TOO...
But I am you. Don't you (I mean I)remember sending this to me (you)while we were on our meds. They said we (me, you)were suffering from HYPER TONYISM with secondary CAPS LOCKS.
So remember, I agree with EVERYTHING you said, because non of it can be right. Execept for Wesley and Whitefield.
ynot wrote: [ I ] forgot [ to include myself : ] the MASONIC ILLU[M]INATIST, non(-)HISTORIC(-)AUTHORIZED(-)[HOLY-BIBLE-ONLY--SOLA-ESCRITURA](-)CATHOLIC...
Don't Worry "ynot", You're Included TOO...
THOSE WHO PRACTICE "DEAD-ORTHODOXY" & SATANIC "HYPER-CALVINISM" ARE DOING THE WORK OF THE DEVIL !
ONLY A DEVIOUS, EVIL & "DEAD-ORTHODOXY" DEMON-POSSESSED "HYPER-CALVINIST" WOULD EVER ACCUSE CHARLES WESLEY'S CALVINIST CREDENTIALS OF BEING "dubious"; LET ALONE GEORGE WHITEFIELD'S !
BUT THEN, AGAIN, WE KNOW WHO'S BEHIND THIS "CONSPIRACY" OF PUSHING "HYPER-CALVINISM" & "RELIGIOUS"-EXTREMISM ON THIS SERMONAUDIO WEBSITE--NOW DON'T WE ?
IT'S SICK & DISGUSTING HOW THESE 'HYPER-CALVINIST' "SCRIBES & PHARISEES" SO POMPOUSLY & "RELIGIOUSLY" SLAM THEIR COUSINS "IN THE FAITH": HYPER-ARMINIANISTS !
IT'S PART OF THE HEGELIAN DIALECTIC CONSPIRACY TO "DIVIDE & CONQUER" HISTORIC U.S. BIBLICAL-LITERALIST PROTESTANT FUNDAMENTALISM-ESSENTIALISM !
I'VE SAID THIS ONCE & I WILL SAY IT AGAIN (& A TRILLION MORE TIMES IF NEED BE):
THIS IS WHY YOU HAVE "DEAD-ORTHODOXY" DEVILS & NON-EVANGELISTICALLY-MINDED ANTI-SOUL-WINNERS & ANTI-REVIVALISTS POSTING THEIR DAMNABLE "DOCTRINES OF DEVILS" ON THIS SERMONAUDIO WEBSITE !
Street -Preacher wrote: No, Let Me Tell YOU "Jesuit(ic)s" Something ('cause You DIDN'T Hear Me RIGHT THE 1st TIME): THOSE WHO PRACTICE "DEAD-ORTHODOXY" & SATANIC "HYPER-CALVINISM" ARE DOING THE WORK OF THE DEVIL ! ONLY A DEVIOUS, EVIL & "DEAD-ORTHODOXY" DEMON-POSSESSED "HYPER-CALVINIST" WOULD EVER ACCUSE CHARLES WESLEY'S CALVINIST CREDENTIALS OF BEING "dubious"; LET ALONE GEORGE WHITEFIELD'S ! BUT THEN, AGAIN, WE KNOW WHO'S BEHIND THIS "CONSPIRACY" OF PUSHING "HYPER-CALVINISM" & "RELIGIOUS"-EXTREMISM ON THIS SERMONAUDIO WEBSITE--NOW DON'T WE ? IT'S SICK & DISGUSTING HOW THESE 'HYPER-CALVINIST' "SCRIBES & PHARISEES" SO POMPOUSLY & "RELIGIOUSLY" SLAM THEIR COUSINS "IN THE FAITH": HYPER-ARMINIANISTS ! IT'S PART OF THE HEGELIAN DIALECTIC CONSPIRACY TO "DIVIDE & CONQUER" HISTORIC U.S. BIBLICAL-LITERALIST PROTESTANT FUNDAMENTALISM-ESSENTIALISM ! I'VE SAID THIS ONCE & I WILL SAY IT AGAIN (& A TRILLION MORE TIMES IF NEED BE):
THIS IS WHY YOU HAVE "DEAD-ORTHODOXY" DEVILS & NON-EVANGELISTICALLY-MINDED ANTI-SOUL-WINNERS & ANTI-REVIVALISTS POSTING THEIR DAMNABLE "DOCTRINES OF DEVILS" ON THIS SERMONAUDIO WEBSITE !
You forgot the MASONIC ILLUNINATIST, non HISTORIC AUTHORIZED CATHOLIC NON CATHOLIC ECT.
(wo)man wrote: Brother, let me tell you something...
No, Let Me Tell YOU "Jesuit(ic)s" Something ('Cause You DIDN'T Hear Me RIGHT THE 1st TIME):
THOSE WHO PRACTICE "DEAD-ORTHODOXY" & SATANIC "HYPER-CALVINISM" ARE DOING THE WORK OF THE DEVIL !
ONLY A DEVIOUS, EVIL & "DEAD-ORTHODOXY" DEMON-POSSESSED "HYPER-CALVINIST" WOULD EVER ACCUSE CHARLES WESLEY'S CALVINIST CREDENTIALS OF BEING "dubious"; LET ALONE GEORGE WHITEFIELD'S !
BUT THEN, AGAIN, WE KNOW WHO'S BEHIND THIS "CONSPIRACY" OF PUSHING "HYPER-CALVINISM" & "RELIGIOUS"-EXTREMISM ON THIS SERMONAUDIO WEBSITE--NOW DON'T WE ?
IT'S SICK & DISGUSTING HOW THESE 'HYPER-CALVINIST' "SCRIBES & PHARISEES" SO POMPOUSLY & "RELIGIOUSLY" SLAM THEIR COUSINS "IN THE FAITH": HYPER-ARMINIANISTS !
IT'S PART OF THE HEGELIAN DIALECTIC CONSPIRACY TO "DIVIDE & CONQUER" HISTORIC U.S. BIBLICAL-LITERALIST PROTESTANT FUNDAMENTALISM-ESSENTIALISM !
I'VE SAID THIS ONCE & I WILL SAY IT AGAIN (& A TRILLION MORE TIMES IF NEED BE):
"HYPER-CALVINISM", LIKE "HYPER-ARMINIANISM", IS SPAWNED FROM THE VERY PITS & DREGS OF HELL ITSELF !
THIS IS WHY YOU HAVE "DEAD-ORTHODOXY" DEVILS & NON-EVANGELISTICALLY-MINDED ANTI-SOUL-WINNERS & ANTI-REVIVALISTS POSTING THEIR DAMNABLE "DOCTRINES OF DEVILS" ON THIS SERMONAUDIO WEBSITE !
2 Peter 2:17-20 KJV 17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
Why would a Calvinist want to explain the text away? It is clear enough. God has reserved an eternal mist of darkness for these folks who are "wells without water", having not the Spirit of God, servants of corruption, filled with lusts and wantonness, speaking vanity and false liberty, having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof, whose condemnation is just.
It is one thing to have some knowledge of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, and another to be born again of the Spirit.
Question to Street Preacher. When is the trumpet blown. I suggest you make a study of this. Question to Calvinists 2 Peter2 20. And when people escape from the wickedness of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and then get tangled up and enslaved by sin again, they are worse off than before. 21 It would be better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then reject the command they were given to live a holy life. 22 They prove the truth of this proverb: “A dog returns to its vomit.”[g] And another says, “A washed pig returns to the mud.” This scripture you cannot explain away.
Brother, let me tell you something, any Christian spewing out words of hate over another brother that indeed belongs to Christ is in desperate need of repentance. The whole Arminian/Calvinism thing has been going on for centuries - nothing new there. But let me tell you that you cannot use dogmatics or any other ideology as the basis for hatred. Jesus taught love and forgiveness and that anyone not against Him is with Him - if you are an Arminian, that in includes Calvinists! Besides, I have only met a handful of true hyper-Calvinists and they actually loved Christ with all their heart - most Christians of the branches of Reformed faith are just Calvinists. Hey, if it were not for God working through them, you would be a Roman Catholic! Please reconsider your stand before it devours your testimony, your faith, and your true allegiance to Christ.
A Street-Preacher Posting wrote: Especially On Those Who Practice "DEAD-Orthodoxy" & Satanic "Hyper-Calvinism"!
Proverbs 15 1 A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger. 2 The tongue of the wise makes knowledge acceptable, But the mouth of fools spouts folly.---NASB
From a Methodist commentator,
Clarke wrote: Verse 1. A soft answer] Gentleness will often disarm the most furious, where positive derangement has not taken place; one angry word will always beget another, for the disposition of one spirit always begets its own likeness in another: thus kindness produces kindness, and rage produces rage. Universal experience confirms this proverb.
we are...deaf wrote: ...posting (can) cause a few earthquakes around here...
Especially On Those Who Practice "DEAD-Orthodoxy" & Satanic "Hyper-Calvinism" !
"You Need Evangelistic Unction To Make Orthodoxy Function"--Bob Jones Sr.
Only A Devious, Evil & "DEAD-Orthodoxy" Demon-Possessed Hyper-Calvinist Would Ever Accuse CHARLES WESLEY'S Calvinist Credentials Of Being "dubious"; Let Alone GEORGE WHITFIELD'S !
But Then Again, WE Know Who's Behind This "CONSPIRACY" Of Pushing Hyper-Calvinism & "Religious"-Extremism On This Sermonaudio Website--Now Don't We ? ! ? ! ? ! ?
It's Sick & Disgusting How These Hyper-Calvinist "Scribes & Pharisees" So Pompously & "Religously" SLAM Their Cousin "In The Faith": Hyper-Arminianism ! ! ! ! ! !
It's Part Of The Hegelian Dialectic CONSPIRACY To "Divide & Conquer" Historic U.S. Biblical-Literalist Protestant Fundamentalism-Essentialism !
I've Said This Once & I Will Say It Again (& A TRILLION More Times If Need Be):
*Hyper-Calvinism, Like Hyper-Arminianism, Is Spawned From The Very Pits & Dregs Of HELL Itself ! ! !
This Is Why You Have "DEAD-Orthodoxy" Devils & Non-Evangelisticly-Minded Anti-Soul-Winners & Anti-Revivalists Posting Their Damnable "Doctrines Of Devils" On This Sermonaudio Website ! ! !
Well, Mike, I was wrong in commenting about John rather than Charles, who except for his hymns if not a silent partner in his brother's work certainly a less well-known one. I would have to look up Charles stand on many things.
John Wesley, might be considered a founder of the Lordship idea, the following looks accurate though I don't know anything about the writer,
Gary Gilley wrote: The Holiness Movement Pentecostalism was born in the cradle of the Holiness Movement of the nineteenth-century. The Holiness Movement actually traces its roots to John Wesley in the eighteenth-century, who taught sort of a two-tiered salvation. The first tier was conversion or justification, in which one is forgiven and freed from past sins. The second tier was “entire sanctification” which liberated one from their fallen nature, or at least the tendency toward sin....
Jim Lincoln wrote: If my memory serves George Whitfield's Calvinist credentials were much better than John's, and he tried to get John to see the error of his ways. As it can be seen, he failed in that mission. Perhaps one reason we have what is called the United Methodist Church of today? ---
They were friends, and agreed to disagree. Your assumption about error is one-sided. You actually think there is resemblance between what Wesley taught and today's UM teaching?
If my memory serves George Whitfield's Calvinist credentials were much better than John's, and he tried to get John to see the error of his ways. As it can be seen, he failed in that mission. Perhaps one reason we have what is called the United Methodist Church of today?
Yea, But BEFORE All This WILL COME The Pre-Tribulation/Millenial RAPTURE Of THE TRUE CHURCH Of THE LORD JESUS:
"FOR THE GRACE OF GOD THAT BRINGETH SALVATION HATH APPEARED UNTO ALL MEN,
TEACHING US THAT, DENYING UNGODLINESS AND WORLDLY LUSTS, WE SHOULD LIVE SOBERLY, RIGHTEOUSLY, AND GODLY, IN THIS PRESENT WORLD;
LOOKING FOR THAT BLESSED HOPE, AND THE GLORIOUS APPEARING OF THE GREAT GOD AND OUR SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST." TITUS 2:11-13
"BUT I WOULD NOT HAVE YOU TO BE IGNORANT, BRETHREN, CONCERNING THEM WHICH ARE ASLEEP, THAT YE SORROW NOT, EVEN AS OTHERS WHICH HAVE NO HOPE.
FOR IF WE BELIEVE THAT JESUS DIED AND ROSE AGAIN, EVEN SO THEM ALSO WHICH SLEEP IN JESUS WILL GOD BRING WITH HIM.
FOR THIS WE SAY UNTO YOU BY THE WORD OF THE LORD, THAT WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN UNTO THE COMING OF THE LORD SHALL NOT PREVENT THEM WHICH ARE ASLEEP.
FOR THE LORD HIMSELF SHALL DESCEND FROM HEAVEN WITH A SHOUT, WITH THE VOICE OF THE ARCHANGEL, AND THE TRUMP OF GOD: AND THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST:
THEN WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: AND SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH THE LORD." 1 THESS. 4:13-17
"ALL THE SAINTS & ELECT OF GOD ARE GATHERED, PRIOR TO THE TRIBULATION WHICH IS TO COME..." EPHREM 2;9
Relling wrote: "So also the Prophet Isaiah: I will punish the world for its evil… And will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. Therefore I will shake the heavens, And the earth will move out of her place,"
I can see "earthquake" suggested in this verse; - But I've never seen the quote "heavens shake"???
Relevant context will show that it is God's voice which would shake heaven and earth...
The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. (Joel 3:16)
For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land; And I will shake all nations, and the desire(able) of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts. (Haggai 2:6-7)
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. (Heb 12:25-26)
Hyper-Calvinism, Like It's Distant Cousin, Hyper-Arminianism, Are Both "DOCTRINES OF DEVILS" Spawned In HELL ITSELF By None Other Than The Author Of "Religious"-EXTREMISM & Extra-Biblical HERESIES: Lucifer Himself !
We Know, Historically, That Although JOHN WESLEY Was The "FOUNDER" Of The Arminian-Branch Of THE METHODIST-EPISCOPAL-CHURCH &-Or ARMINIANISTIC-METHODISM;
It Was His Brother CHALRLES WESLEY & Fellow English-Episcopal-Priest & EVANGELIST GEORGE WHITFIELD: Who Were The "FOUNDERS" Of The Calvinist-Branch Of The METHODIST-EPISCOPAL-CHURCH &-Or CALVINISTIC-METHODISM.
The ARMINIAN-BRANCH Of THE METHODIST CHURCH In England & America Spawned The "HOLINESS" Movement Within English/American-METHODISM.
It Was Chiefly U.S. AMERICAN METHODISM That Pioneered The "FUNDAMENTALIST" &-Or "ESSENTIALIST" Movement Within AMERICAN-PROTESTANTISM In The Late-19th/Early-20th CENTURIES.
Such Prominent "FUNDAMENTALIST-ESSENTIALIST" AMERICAN EVANGELISTS & REVIVALISTS Included ARMINIAN-METHODIST EVANGELISTS-REVIVALISTS Like SAM JONES & BOB JONE SR.
**The LATTER, Founding BOB JONES UNIVERSITY In 1927 As A FUNDAMENTALIST-ESSENTIALIST METHODIST INTERDENOMNATIONAL BIBLE COLLEGE; AND, UNDER BOB JONES JR. BECAME A NONDENOMINATIONAL INDEPENDENT-FUNDAMENTALIST-BAPTIST BIBLE UNIVERSITY !
#1 "So also the Prophet Isaiah: I will punish the world for its evil… And will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. Therefore I will shake the heavens, And the earth will move out of her place,"
I can see "earthquake" suggested in this verse; - But I've never seen the quote "heavens shake"???
#2 "Therefore reason, as well as faith, sufficiently assures us that such disasters must be the punishment of sin, and the effect of that curse which was brought upon the earth by the original transgression."
Again I can perceive "earthquake" within original sin effect; - But the question remains what has Japan done that many other nations (including America and Britain) which they have not?
Perhaps there is an arguement that the countries in the west which had a more active Christian church, (blessing) should be punished harsher considering their doctrinal and moral decline especially in recent times. So where is their natural disaster, based on this same token?
Or is this another Arminian looking for more emphasis on the mortal - less on the divine source?
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Dr. Alan Cairns | 2/2/2009
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no: "
lurker
at least this fellow is honest enough to confess that infant baptism..."
