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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  8/30/2014
TUESDAY, FEB 8, 2011  |  18 comments
Pastors meet in SC conference on Christian slavery
When the Rev. Dallas Wilson Jr., a black Episcopal vicar on Charleston's impoverished east side, first heard the concept of Christian slavery he couldn't believe the message.

"That's an affront," he remembers thinking when he met theologian the Rev. John MacArthur about five years ago. "I said to him in my mind 'Are you insane?' Do you see this is a 300-pound black man you are standing before? How are you possibly going to tell me slavery is a beneficial system?"

But Wilson said that, after meeting MacArthur, he had an epiphany about his message: At the most basic level, Christians are really slaves to Christ. ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 18 user comment(s)
News Item2/10/11 3:36 PM
bought with a price  Find all comments by bought with a price
Neil wrote:
I have trouble imagining that very many schoolchildren, in secular or Christian schools, have been briefed fully on the background of the Scrooby Separatists... . After all, issues like Calvinism (pastor Robinson vs. Episcopius at U. of Leyden) & the Regulative Principle might invite awkward questions.
As regards Baxter, I could not put him in the same category as the Dissenters or Presbyterians it is the cause after all that determines truly persecuted persons for the truth.

I do not know what you are referring to as far as the Scrooby Separatists but my fathers were sworn against Prelacy, Independency, and Separatism as well as Popery and what I do know of the Pilgrim Fathers from American History (biased) and reading Cotton Matther's History of this nation, concerns me. The wide spread ignorance among so many proud professors is disconcerting. But God is able to humble his people. This I know experiencially, and no chastening seemeth to be joyous but grievous...

18

News Item2/10/11 1:04 PM
hdjkdiejnn  Find all comments by hdjkdiejnn
Wilson said the concept must be considered in terms of God, not human abuses of slavery.
"As a slave you can't pick and choose because whatever it is that person owns you," he said. "As a slave, God is saying to me, do this."

As an Episcopalian Wilson is most likely a Liberal or an Arminian. The statement above could have connotations within that debate which may conflict with MacArthur's ultimate point.

"Freewill" anybody!!!

17

News Item2/10/11 5:08 AM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Whew! We can sure get all wound up on things.

IMHO Paris Reidhead has made a far better a comment of being Christ's slave in both

10 Shekels and a Shirt
and
So Great Salvation

than I've been hearing from most modern preachers, MacArthur included.

An excellent brief video clip from 'So Great Salvation' is up on Youtube and titled

"Come And He Will Set You Free"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxBtF-U0DJ4

16

News Item2/9/11 7:25 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
This is a hoot: Complaints about digressions on a thread w/o posting anything more relevant. I tried a little below, but the critics didn't notice or care.
15

News Item2/9/11 7:10 PM
Dis May'd  Find all comments by Dis May'd
Redundancy wrote:
I'm so glad people recognize that this article is really about slavery in England and America.
Even I was starting to believe the article had something to do with John MacArthur, and Christians being slaves to the Lord.
Even the black pastor missed it. He was right to begin with, before he heard the whole story.
This article really is about the institution of slavery. Thank you S/A Posters. With your usual alacrity you jumped in and stratightened this matter out before two post could be posted. I'm sure that one guy is going to try to say you got "Off Topic" but he is not as intellegent as some.
The institution of slavery. Yep, that's the topic. Remember, it's not MacArthur, or slavery to Christ.
Feel free to take any phrase, or even a single word from this post and morph the thread into even another topic.
And by all means, feel free to insult and demean me as well. It relly demonstrates where you are.
Kinda Rough, but apparently on target. It seems like people have an addiction to secondary issues, and missing the main point.
14

News Item2/9/11 7:05 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Surely the King James I version of the Stuarts would not participate in persection of Dissenters, would he?
13

News Item2/9/11 6:37 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Thanks. And I agree, the persecution of Dissenters & Presbys by the Stuart dynasty has gone down the memory hole, both within & outside organized churches. Even certain Anglicans were not exempt, like Richard Baxter.

As an example, I have trouble imagining that very many schoolchildren, in secular or Christian schools, have been briefed fully on the background of the Scrooby Separatists (aka Pilgrim Fathers). After all, issues like Calvinism (pastor Robinson vs. Episcopius at U. of Leyden) & the Regulative Principle might invite awkward questions.

12

News Item2/9/11 6:18 PM
bought with a price  Find all comments by bought with a price
Neil wrote:
And the "issue" that Redundancy reminded us about was being a slave to Christ, & whatever that means.
Thank you Neil your response on both counts was instructive. I found it interesting that I posted after you and not having read yours we were both referring to the same suffers for righteousness, or those whose example identified then as doulos of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Slavery has been an issue that has divided the church but I believe we were trying to identify the church by its historic testimony, at least I was. I tend to believe we would not agree on a number of issues from reading your posts, but we agree on some and that that last two comments were less edifying. 2Cor.8:1b"Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. 2And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.3But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

11

News Item2/9/11 2:19 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Invalid inference; "Redundancy" is not an infallible author like Paul, & more importantly, the offense did not require it - no one was being nasty or obstinate. We, as slaves to Christ, are commanded to be longsuffering & gentle with one another (Gal. 5:22), which was the case until Redundancy's post.

And the "issue" that Redundancy reminded us about was being a slave to Christ, & whatever that means.

10

News Item2/9/11 2:15 PM
Morphy  Find all comments by Morphy
Neil wrote:
You could've made the point with a little less sarcasm.
This glowing AP article reads like a press release for MacArthur's book. Maybe that's part of being a slave for Christ: publishing books making obvious points probably already heard from most pulpits.
You know Paul used sarcasm to the Corintians. It's in book form. 2nd Cor.
So the issue now, is, is it alright to use sarcasm, or to write books.
9

News Item2/9/11 10:59 AM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
You could've made the point with a little less sarcasm.

This glowing AP article reads like a press release for MacArthur's book. Maybe that's part of being a slave for Christ: publishing books making obvious points probably already heard from most pulpits.

8

News Item2/8/11 10:22 PM
Redundancy | Billy Preston Circle  Find all comments by Redundancy
I'm so glad people recognize that this article is really about slavery in England and America.

Even I was starting to believe the article had something to do with John MacArthur, and Christians being slaves to the Lord.

Even the black pastor missed it. He was right to begin with, before he heard the whole story.

This article really is about the institution of slavery. Thank you S/A Posters. With your usual alacrity you jumped in and stratightened this matter out before two post could be posted. I'm sure that one guy is going to try to say you got "Off Topic" but he is not as intellegent as some.

The institution of slavery. Yep, that's the topic. Remember, it's not MacArthur, or slavery to Christ.

Feel free to take any phrase, or even a single word from this post and morph the thread into even another topic.

And by all means, feel free to insult and demean me as well. It relly demonstrates where you are.

7

News Item2/8/11 4:43 PM
bought with a price  Find all comments by bought with a price
days of yore wrote:
For example many of the Scottish Covenanters were sent to America in this way. Life was cheap especially if you were born into serfdom and sombody 'owned' you.

My point, apparently you prefer (Wiki)to better sources of history? Your use of it appears somewhat curious, ergo confusing.

There is a difference between a just and unjust wielding of the civil sword and contrasting tyranny with justice to make your point is antitruth.

Your point?

6

News Item2/8/11 2:52 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
From just the short summary above it appears that John MacArthur and Gil Rugh are in agreement.

The following summary for the sermon, The Slave to Master Relationship

Gil Rugh said or, wrote:
One of the worst testimonies I hear as a pastor, some people who employ other people say, you know, I hate hiring Christians, they're just not the best workers. Whatever the job, if the Christian is doing it, he ought to be doing it to the best of his ability.

The scripture is not concerned about changing political and social conditions. It's not God's intention that we be involved in reforming society. His concern is that we be involved in manifesting His character in a lost and unregenerate world.

5

News Item2/8/11 1:17 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
I do not imply that penal servitude (such as mentioned) below was necessarily unbiblical, though many convicts were sentenced to transportation unjustly (i.e., for petty theft), when they should've been liable only for enough labor to make restitution + a penalty. The real problem was, theft should not have been a capital crime in England. Transportation was a more merciful alternative to the gallows (see "The Fatal Shore" by Robert Hughes).

African-American slavery, however, was utterly unjust, since people were enslaved for reasons having nothing to do with criminal justice.

4

News Item2/8/11 11:40 AM
days of yore  Find all comments by days of yore
bought with a price wrote:
In the 1600's the Stuart monarchy took their own citizens that contradicted a perfidious throne and sent them as slaves to America
Slavery by any other name??
The Feudal system in England and the Clan system in Scotland created slavery although it was not known under that title. The terms "serf" and "peasant" also "bondservant" in conditions of servitude, were many times synonymous with the concept of slavery in the 16/1700's. To jump from this and create a punishment in these centuries which included being sent to America, Australia etc to work on various plantations and other works such as household, is no great leap. For example many of the Scottish Covenanters were sent to America in this way. Life was cheap especially if you were born into serfdom and sombody 'owned' you.

"Transportation to the colonies as an indentured servant served as punishment for both major and petty crimes in England and Ireland from the 17th century until well into the 19th century. A sentence could be for life or a specific period. The penal system required the convicts to work, on government projects such as road construction, building works and mining, or be assigned to free individuals as unpaid labour." (Wiki)

3

News Item2/8/11 11:03 AM
bought with a price  Find all comments by bought with a price
The best example of Christian slaves (made so by men) because they were the bond servants of Jesus Christ is given in the book: "A Cloud of Witnesses" In the 1600's the Stuart monarchy took their own citizens that contradicted a perfidious throne and sent them as slaves to America, many dying from conditions on route. For too long their sad bondage by men has been ignored. Their posterity were major opponents to slavery in the US.
2

News Item2/8/11 10:49 AM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Little wonder that slavery is a provocative word. Incredibly, there have been professing Christians who've taught that American slavery was Biblical, such as Steve Wilkins & Doug Wilson. Ironically, one excellent refutation of this fiction was by a Scots Presby:
Negro Slavery Unjustifiable
(there is some iffy science in one paragraph, but the rest is sound)

Anyone who thinks American slavery was a picnic for its victims should read Frederick Douglass's biographical narrative, available online. Some of it reminds me of Solzenitzen's later GULAG account.

1
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