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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA News
FRONT PAGE  |  5/29/2015
Choice News THURSDAY, JAN 27, 2011  |  92 comments
Mohler at center of debate over evolution & the Bible
R. Albert Mohler Jr. believes the theory of evolution "represents one of the greatest challenges to Christian faith and faithfulness in our times," and he has found himself at the center of a controversy over the compatibility of evolution and Christian theology.

The dialogue began last summer when Mohler, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, delivered an address titled "Why Does the Universe Look So Old?" at the Ligonier Ministries 2010 National Conference, during which he mentioned The BioLogos Foundation, a movement founded by Francis Collins, director of the National Institutes of Health. ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 92 user comment(s)
News Item2/23/11 2:26 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim  Lincoln
Mike, it should be pointed out Evolution supports the idea of origin of life without God, Origin of Life: Critique of Early Stage Chemical Evolution Theories.
92

News Item2/22/11 4:08 PM
JR | UNITED States of America  Find all comments by JR
Ernoue wrote:
"Dr. Philip Ryken said it well when he wrote in Discovering God in Stories from the Bible:
“Whatever else it may be, evolution is not a theory of origins. It is a theory of changes. It tries to explain how one creature evolved into another. But it cannot explain why there should be any creatures in the first place. Or why there should be anything at all, for that matter.”
Indeed, I believe that evolution that “explains” development of things visible, apart from God cannot therefore be true. Moreover to introduce these ideas brings despair in the human heart and mind. And it brings something worse: it dehumanizes a person."
Absolutely. Good point, Ernoue. Especially your last sentence. Because the world believes in and teaches evolution, the world accepts euthanasia and abortion. That is an indubitable truth.
91

News Item2/22/11 3:34 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
“Whatever else it may be, evolution is not a theory of origins. It is a theory of changes. It tries to explain how one creature evolved into another. But it cannot explain why there should be any creatures in the first place. Or why there should be anything at all, for that matter.”

Actually, it doesn't even approach that level of competence, for it tries to explain how something happened of which there is no evidence that it happened.

90

News Item2/22/11 11:57 AM
Ernoue  Find all comments by Ernoue
"Dr. David Calhoun, in his Princeton Seminary: The Majestic Testimony: 1869-1929, wrote about an exchange between Charles Darwin and Charles Hodge and summarized their views:

“Both Charles Hodge and Charles Darwin, it seems, agreed that Christianity in its orthodox sense could not be reconciled with Darwin’s views of evolution” (Banner of Truth, 1996, page 18).

So in this matter I also agree with Charles Darwin! There is no reconciliation! I think Dr. Philip Ryken said it well when he wrote in Discovering God in Stories from the Bible:

“Whatever else it may be, evolution is not a theory of origins. It is a theory of changes. It tries to explain how one creature evolved into another. But it cannot explain why there should be any creatures in the first place. Or why there should be anything at all, for that matter.”

Indeed, I believe that evolution that “explains” development of things visible, apart from God cannot therefore be true. Moreover to introduce these ideas brings despair in the human heart and mind. And it brings something worse: it dehumanizes a person." (mikemilton.org)

89

News Item2/17/11 2:29 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim  Lincoln
One should look at verses 14:1 through 15:7 for,
14:1 Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.
7 For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;
8 for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.---NASB
Martin Luther wrote:
A Christian man is a most free lord of all, subject to none. A Christian man is a most dutiful servant of all, subject to all.
Gil Rugh said or, wrote:
It is the object of faith not the independent fact of faith that results in salvation. The only object of saving faith that will result in salvation is Jesus Christ. Genuine faith responds to the gospel facts that reveals the truth about sin, self and salvation.
from, Worthless Faith
88

News Item2/17/11 1:18 PM
Rye Gate  Find all comments by Rye Gate
Mike wrote:
Tell me, if faith is faith, what is the faith referred to in
Romans 14:1 "Him that is weak in the faith receive ye

Eph 6:16 "Above all, taking the shield of faith, ..... the fiery darts of the wicked." .....
.... harmed by the darts, why quench them?

Ro 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, - ACCORDING AS GOD HAS DEALT TO EVERY MAN THE **MEASURE** OF FAITH.
4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

God "provides" the "MEASURE" of faith.
Clearly these MEASURES differ per task.
The FAITHFUL are the people who will struggle with Satan and sin just as Jesus did. But the "SHIELD" of faith is precisely that - a means of protection which reprobates do not possess. Read Eph 6:16 again. It is a statement of HOW faith protects.

87

News Item2/16/11 4:39 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Rye Gate wrote:
---
Luke 8:24,25 - This addresses the "pre" Holy Spirit indwelling time of the disciples.

If you are using this Ref. as example of the "pre" Holy Spirit circumstance of the elect, then salvation is still on course. And evolution ....no consequence to the faith of the elect.
...as to the non-elect then Mohler's "challenge to faith" is irrelevant.
Eph 2:8 Faith is the gift since this verse is opposed to verse 9 "works" - Paul would not oppose works to salvation itself that does not make sense.

Eph 2:8,9 The contrast is between salvation(the gift of God) "through faith," and any notion of salvation stemming from works, which might enable a man to boast of saving himself. When a man brings only faith, he brings nothing of which to boast.

Tell me, if faith is faith, what is the faith referred to in

Romans 14:1 "Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations."

Or
Ephesians 6:16 "Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked."

If the post HS indwelled saints cannot be harmed by the darts, why quench them? (They can harm, that's why) It calls for a sustaining faith, not calling again for the faith through which saved.

86

News Item2/16/11 2:55 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim  Lincoln
May, I point out,
American Tract Dictionary wrote:
FAITH:

The assent of the understanding to any truth. Religious faith is assent to the truth of divine revelation and of the events and doctrines contained in it. This may be merely historical, without producing any effect on our lives and conversation; and it is then a dead faith, such as even the devils have. But a living or saving faith not only believes the great doctrines of religion as true, but embraces them with the heart and affections; and is thus the source of sincere obedience to the divine will, exhibited in the life and conversation. Faith in Christ is a grace wrought in the heart by the Holy Spirit, whereby we receive Christ as our Savior, our Prophet, Priest, and King, and love and obey him as such.

James 2
17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
18 But someone may well say, "You have faith, and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.---NASB
85

News Item2/16/11 12:03 PM
Rye Gate  Find all comments by Rye Gate
Mike wrote:
salvific faith

Luke 8:24,25

Christians can fall victim to erroneous thought, when we are distracted by that which is around us.

That is what Mohler argues.

Eph 2:8

There is no such faith as non-salvific faith. Faith IS from God and not of man. Man dead in sin can feel convinced he is a Christian (Matt 7:21-23) but that is not Christian Faith.

Luke 8:24,25 - This addresses the "pre" Holy Spirit indwelling time of the disciples. Note the difference in power between this time and later on their ministry.

If you are using this Ref. as example of the "pre" Holy Spirit circumstance of the elect, then salvation is still on course. And evolution or any reprobate theories are still of no consequence to the faith of the elect.

If however as to the non-elect then Mohler's "challenge to faith" is irrelevant.

Eph 2:8 Faith is the gift since this verse is opposed to verse 9 "works" - Paul would not oppose works to salvation itself that does not make sense.

84

News Item2/16/11 10:49 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Rye Gate wrote:
Oh Yeah Mike;
Of course there is "Faith" the gift of God as per Eph 2:8.
Then there is "faith" the intellectual assent of hooman beans, which don't work.
Which one do you think Mr Mohler is trying to preserve from nasty old evolutionary theories by reprobates?
Neither. He speaks not of salvific faith, nor intellectual assent.

Luke 8:24,25
"And they came to him, and awoke him, saying, Master, master, we perish. Then he arose, and rebuked the wind and the raging of the water: and they ceased, and there was a calm.
And he said unto them, Where is your faith? And they being afraid wondered, saying one to another, What manner of man is this! for he commandeth even the winds and water, and they obey him."

The Lord rebukes his own here. He was not questioning their salvation, nor their intellect, but their continuing trust in him, whom they call Master. This shows Christians can fall victim to erroneous thought, when we are distracted by that which is around us. We are to maintain what is true, regardless. That is what Mohler argues. It isn't necessary to be an unbeliever to get some things wrong.

ex: you believe Eph 2:8 speaks of faith as the gift of God, when it is salvation.

83

News Item2/16/11 9:37 AM
Rye Gate  Find all comments by Rye Gate
Mike wrote:
why do you insist there is only one kind of faith, that which saves? This misleads you to read Mohler's "challenges to Christian faith and faithfulness" as challenges to salvation. The need for faithfulness does not cease with salvation. It's in the book.
Oh Yeah Mike;
Of course there is "Faith" the gift of God as per Eph 2:8.

Then there is "faith" the intellectual assent of hooman beans, which don't work.

Which one do you think Mr Mohler is trying to preserve from nasty old evolutionary theories by reprobates?

82

News Item2/15/11 4:35 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Rye Gate wrote:
Jim. Then why is Mohler reported in the introduction to this article as saying quote, "(R. Albert Mohler Jr. believes the theory of evolution) "represents one of the greatest challenges to Christian faith and faithfulness in our times,"
Is Mohler implying that (reprobate) mans hypothesis on earth's age and a monkey ancestry of man, "the greatest challenge" to faith.?
Viz: "salvation by works" which can be lost because of the human connection?
THUS faith fails because of this hypothesis of man?
Mr. Gate, why do you insist there is only one kind of faith, that which saves? This misleads you to read Mohler's "challenges to Christian faith and faithfulness" as challenges to salvation. The need for faithfulness does not cease with salvation. It's in the book.
81

News Item2/15/11 3:43 PM
Rye Gate  Find all comments by Rye Gate
Jim Lincoln wrote:
I would suggest you read the commentary, it isn't long, by Mohler, Evolution: When Atheists and Baptists Agree?. This should satisfy you and the other who question, Dr. Mohler's position on Evolution
Jim. Then why is Mohler reported in the introduction to this article as saying quote, "(R. Albert Mohler Jr. believes the theory of evolution) "represents one of the greatest challenges to Christian faith and faithfulness in our times,"

Is Mohler implying that (reprobate) mans hypothesis on earth's age and a monkey ancestry of man, "the greatest challenge" to faith.?

Viz: "salvation by works" which can be lost because of the human connection?
THUS faith fails because of this hypothesis of man?

80

News Item2/15/11 2:08 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim  Lincoln
R.Gate, I would suggest you read the commentary, it isn't long, by Mohler, Evolution: When Atheists and Baptists Agree?. This should satisfy you and the other who question, Dr. Mohler's position on Evolution.

No, Lockner, go back and look that was all of my first message. TS was the one who brought up the KJV after attacking Mohler on other issues.

I'm glad to see your last message didn't fall under this category--finally.

James May wrote:
....Within the movement, a more extreme group believes that the KJV is directly the product of inspiration, and in fact is useful in correcting the Greek text of the New Testament. Members of this more extreme element may often be identified by their foul language, crude name-calling, boastful arrogance and interestingly, their attacks both upon those who use modern versions and upon the less extreme members of the King James Only movement.
excerpt from, Dean Burgon: The Greatest Enemy of King James Onlyism
79

News Item2/15/11 11:55 AM
Rye Gate  Find all comments by Rye Gate
Jim Lincoln wrote:
Well, reading further the only real reason I can see that many of you dislike Albert Mohler is that he uses the ESV for his church services!
Evolution is the speculative hypothesis of those who are ignorant of the truth as recorded in Scripture. Therefore it is a lie and just the deceit of the reprobates, by the reprobates. (See Luke 16:15)

A sinful and deceitful lie cannot and does not challenge Scriptures truth and authenticity when read in faith, any more than man himself does.

God's Holy Word is received by faith. The Scriptures can only be read as truth when the Holy Spirit enables the sinner so to do. When the Holy Spirit thus works in the sinner, mans fairy tales such as evolution have no power to distort the work of the Spirit nor the Word of God. Remember it is the TRUTH which sets you free - What does it set you free from?

Jim perhaps your friend Mohler is not quite the Christian you think he is?

78

News Item2/14/11 3:09 PM
Lockerman  Find all comments by Lockerman
Jim Lincoln wrote:
Lockerman, this was my first message, what did it have to do with the cult of King James Onlyism, I didn't bring up Arminianism or called them non-Christian, etc. We do know who are infamous for name-calling, however.
No; this was your entire post:
Jim Lincoln wrote:
Frank you might appreciate these comments,
from, The Biblical Position on The KJV Controversy. It is really the case of, Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible Is the Best Translation Available Today.

Anyone can see what you ar up to. You have successfully decieved yourself, but no one else.

77

News Item2/14/11 2:38 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim  Lincoln
Jim Lincoln wrote:
To add, something else to the mix, New Book Shows How Evolution's Co-Discoverer Rejected Darwinism, Embraced Intelligent Design.
Yes, when it comes to Scriptures,
2 Timothy 2
15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth.---NASB
Principles of Bible Interpretation
Lockerman, this was my first message, what did it have to do with the cult of King James Onlyism, I didn't bring up Arminianism or called them non-Christian, etc. We do know who are infamous for name-calling, however.
76

News Item2/13/11 10:51 PM
Jandl510 | Illinois  Contact via emailFind all comments by Jandl510
1 Corinthians 1:20-28 (King James Version)
Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

OK, so explain to me again why we want to appear as wise to the world.

75

News Item2/13/11 4:35 PM
Lockerman  Find all comments by Lockerman
Jim Lincoln wrote:
Frank you might appreciate these comments,
from, The Biblical Position on The KJV Controversy. It is really the case of, Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible Is the Best Translation Available Today.
Yep! There ya go. You never stop do you. Turning every thread into a forum to down the KJV, and then lying about doing so.
74

News Item2/13/11 3:13 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim  Lincoln
Frank you might appreciate these comments,
John MacArthur wrote:
....Let me share with you my own conclusions after studying these issues. Bible versions, such as the New International Version and the New American Standard Bible, have been translated by godly men of demonstrated academic repute from the very best manuscript evidence that is available today. May I add, the manuscript evidence that is now available is far superior to that which was available to the King James Version's translators in 1611. I would have no reservation in recommending these versions, yet I myself choose to continue using the Scofield Reference Bible because it is the text with which I am most familiar.

Let me recommend a recent book which very carefully discusses the issues. I think you might find it helpful. The author is Donald A. Carson, King James Version Debate,...

from, The Biblical Position on The KJV Controversy. It is really the case of, Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible Is the Best Translation Available Today.
73
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