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The christening without much Christianity: Anglican church offers 'baptism lite' to attract non-worshippers
Church of England baptism services may be re-written to remove some references to Christianity.
The plan for a new 'baptism lite' service designed to make christenings more interesting to non-churchgoers will be considered next month by the Church's parliament, the General Synod.
Supporters say the baptism service should be 'expressed in culturally appropriate and accessible language' that is readily understood by 'non-theologically versed Britons'. But traditionalist clergy said the idea amounted to 'dumbing down'....
Presby wrote: Yeah!! - Not everybody is sprinkle-perfect like me. Remember this is why Baptists don't shower!! How did you manage to fix your lap top?
Please refer to above post. I say "above", but it depends on whether you play your keyboard standing on your head (it has been rumoured that "sprinkling" can have this odd effect) or like normal way up (as in Baptists)
John UK wrote: Bro Presby, The Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster, in order to avoid schism in the churches, offer penitent sinners three different modes of baptism: sprinkle, pour, immerse. Great eh?
Yeah!! - Not everybody is sprinkle-perfect like me. Remember this is why Baptists don't shower!!
Mike wrote: The promise in the verse (Acts 2:39) is the same as that of verse 33, the promise of the Holy Spirit. Verse 38 states how the Holy Spirit is received, THEN verse 39 says it is "unto you, and your children, and to all that are afar off, *even as many as the Lord our God shall call.* "You" and "your children" and "all that are afar off" are all (every one of you..) under the same requirement to repent put forth in the prior verse, 38: "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Verse 41 tells us that "they that received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Any babies repent that day? There's no transfer of the Holy Spirit by proxy, and only God knows whether a baby so baptized is one of those "the Lord our God shall call.
Excellent, Mike!
Bro Presby,
The Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster, in order to avoid schism in the churches, offer penitent sinners three different modes of baptism: sprinkle, pour, immerse. Great eh?
Presby wrote: Credo In answer to Neil's post below I drew him to SermonAudio's survey at "What is the Scriptural mode of baptism?" The reason being that we have already been down this path of 'Paedo' Versus 'Credo' before; - Ergo is there any new point's to cover on this subject? What this survey and others proved was that we will not receive your polemics - and you will not receive ours. PS I do not 'fight' with Mike and Jim just 'joust' with respected fellow Christians. __________
Oh well; thanks anyway for the link to Owen you posted some time back
I wasn't arguing about how baptism is done, thugh at IHCC it is done by full immersion, and of course adults, those who are not under the control of someone else, so their decision is their decision.
Ah, perhaps some of you don't like pdf files so here Gil's booklet is on another site as an html, and from that. The baptism that does rank above the others, is spirit baptism.
Gil Rugh wrote: In light of the Scriptures, we can conclude that a person is baptized with the Holy Spirit the moment he recognizes and believes that he is a sinner for whom Jesus Christ died. The Spirit of God identifies him with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection and makes him a part of the Body of Christ. This is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs once in a person’s life— at the moment of salvation. It can be compared to physical birth. We have many interesting, exciting and unique experiences as human beings, but one that is never repeated is birth. It happens once and it is done. It is the same with Holy Spirit baptism.
Presby wrote: Hiya Mike; 1)I see you still read the Bible differently from the Covenantal Presbyterians.
2)BTW your, "Any babies repent that day?" If some of the adults didn't repent that day does that preclude them from being saved later in God's good time?
1) I guess so, Presby. You're not surprised after all these years, are you?
2) Not at all, God is longsuffering, which is very fortunate for me. He remains so even today. As for those that didn't repent that day, we must assume they didn't get baptized, either. Not that baptism for non-believers does for them anything spiritual anyway.
Credobaptism wrote: Iv'e tried on two occasions to open dialouge with you, but it appears you are would rather Fight with Mike and Jim
Credo In answer to Neil's post below I drew him to SermonAudio's survey at "What is the Scriptural mode of baptism?" The reason being that we have already been down this path of 'Paedo' Versus 'Credo' before; - Ergo is there any new point's to cover on this subject? What this survey and others proved was that we will not receive your polemics - and you will not receive ours.
PS I do not 'fight' with Mike and Jim just 'joust' with respected fellow Christians. __________
Neil wrote: behavior reminds me of paleo-Presby piranhas. Look what they do to ea. other:
Now Neil Is that just a 'pithy observation' or are you being trenchant?
Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
Credo, his behavior reminds me of paleo-Presby piranhas. Look what they do to ea. other: http://reformedveritas.blogspot.com/2006/11/excommunication-notices-of-may-14-2006.html
Well Presby; Iv'e tried on two occasions to open dialouge with you, but it appears you are would rather Fight with Mike and Jim, instead of Fellowship with a deepwater brother that has other things in common with you.
Hiya Mike; I see you still read the Bible differently from the Covenantal Presbyterians.
BTW your, "Any babies repent that day?" If some of the adults didn't repent that day does that preclude them from being saved later in God's good time?
Presby wrote: -- Believe in the promise made to Covenantal parents. "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." -- Don't discriminate against babies just because they cannot make the Arminian contribution. Trust in Sovereign God.
The promise in the verse (Acts 2:39) is the same as that of verse 33, the promise of the Holy Spirit. Verse 38 states how the Holy Spirit is received, THEN verse 39 says it is "unto you, and your children, and to all that are afar off, *even as many as the Lord our God shall call.* "You" and "your children" and "all that are afar off" are all (every one of you..) under the same requirement to repent put forth in the prior verse, 38:
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Verse 41 tells us that "they that received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."
Any babies repent that day? There's no transfer of the Holy Spirit by proxy, and only God knows whether a baby so baptized is one of those "the Lord our God shall call.
Jim Lincoln wrote: if there were any infants in that household they also believed?
Hi Jimmy boy; Believe in the promise made to Covenantal parents. "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."
Also Remember what the term "elect" means.
WCF 28.3. "Dipping of the person into the water is not necessary; but baptism is rightly administered by pouring or sprinkling water upon the person.[a]
[a]. Mark 7:4; Acts 2:41; 16:33; Heb 9:10, 19-22.
4. Not only those that do actually profess faith in and obedience unto Christ,[a] but also the infants of one or both believing parents are to be baptized.[b]
[a]. Mark 16:15-16; Acts 8:37-38. [b]. Gen 17:7, 9 with Gal 3:9, 14 and Col 2:11-12 and Acts 2:38-39 and Rom 4:11-12; Mat 28:19; Mark 10:13-16; Luke 18:15; 1 Cor 7:14.
Don't discriminate against babies just because they cannot make the Arminian contribution. Trust in Sovereign God.
CV, an excellent response, apparently we still haven't gottent presby to read, Baptism: Truth or Tradition. It is free to download! Let's look at where the phrase "his whole household" is used.
Matthew 4 53 So the father knew that it was at that hour in which Jesus said to him, "Your son lives"; and he himself believed, and his whole household.---NASB
Does the above mean, if there were any infants in that household they also believed? No, they were to young too understand what was going on.
The same with the verses that are used to support infant baptism,
Acts 16 33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household. 34 And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed in God with his whole household.---NASB
Presby, I don't think that of bread & wine. Yet another example of the great Internet tradition of abuse in place of argument. Don't you have a more relevant response? If Presbys poured (as the WCF allows), I would have less reason to object, as pouring is a form of washing, & perhaps a hydrophobe could tolerate that rather than immersion. BTW, some Anabaptists pour.
But a palmful of water?? That isn't even enough to wash the hands! It is the least defensible mode.
Sprinkling, like dampening a shirt for ironing, isn't even a proper washing, so it is a symbol of a symbol for regeneration. Programmers call this two levels of indirection.
In theory, Presbys are indifferent to the mode (WCF 28.3), but in practice, it's *always* sprinkling. Even the sacerdotalist Greek Orthodox immerse.
Presby wrote: Of course infant baptism by sprinkling IS Biblical.
Thats what the Apostles were doing in Biblical times.
Presby Oh Dear I must have horribly missed it in Acts 2 how when the babies and infants glady received the word Peter was preaching to them, how they cried out to Peter what shall we do!
Wow! What a miracle even babies talking before they were old enough to tell right from wrong. Wow! That has to be an incredible miracle! I can hardly imagine how anyone could not see this!
And Peter told them to repent and be sprinkled and how they crept, crawled and toddled over to the apostles and were sprinkled.
Whew! I simply had no idea that is what the apostles were doing.
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christopher000
when god said, 'i create evil', did he create the boy..."
