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FRONT PAGE  |  5/4/2015
Choice News TUESDAY, NOV 9, 2010  |  23 comments
Judge Blocks Oklahoma's Sharia Ban


Vicki Miles-LaGrange

A federal judge on Monday placed a temporary block on an Oklahoma amendment that bans state judges from consulting Sharia law.

U.S. Judge Vicki Miles-LaGrange issued the temporary restraining order days after the Oklahoma chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations filed a lawsuit.

CAIR alleges the amendment violates the First Amendment's Establishment Clause that bars government bodies from making laws respecting the establishment of religion.


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www.christianpost.com

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 23 user comment(s)
News Item1/3/11 1:19 AM
Elmer Schwartz | Berlin, Ohio  Find all comments by Elmer Schwartz
Lectern wrote:
You appear to have great difficulty understanding Romans 13.
...
(John Calvin)
I understand quite well the idolatrous view of the holy scriptures in which you and your murderous father believe.

It appears that you and your Statist Heathen brothers and sisters are having great difficulty explaining who the "governing authorities" are (is?) and all of the laws (dogmas) that I am expected to learn and obey.

23

News Item12/30/10 11:39 AM
Lectern  Find all comments by Lectern
Elmer Schwartz wrote:
So you are saying "Congress."
Who is this Congress?
You appear to have great difficulty understanding Romans 13.

"He calls them the higher powers, not the supreme, who possess the chief authority, but such as excel other men. Magistrates are then thus called with regard to their subjects, and not as compared with each other. And it seems indeed to me, that the Apostle intended by this word to take away the frivolous curiosity of men, who are wont often to inquire by what right they who rule have obtained their authority; but it ought to be enough for us, that they do rule; for they have not ascended by their own power into this high station, but have been placed there by the Lord's hand. And by mentioning every soul, he removes every exception, lest any one should claim an immunity from the common duty of obedience.

"For there is no power," etc.
The reason why we ought to be subject to magistrates is, because they are constituted by God's ordination. For since it pleases God thus to govern the world, he who attempts to invert the order of God, and thus to resist God himself, despises his power; since to despise the providence of him who is the founder of civil power, is to carry on war with him."
(John Calvin)

22

News Item12/29/10 11:08 PM
Elmer Gantry | Berlin Wall  Find all comments by Elmer Gantry
Elmer Schwartz wrote:
Who is this Congress?
You are! You have a computer and strong oppinions, so we will do whatever you say.
We await your instructions as you have already straigtened us out on every other topic.
21

News Item12/29/10 9:16 PM
Elmer Schwartz | Berlin, Ohio  Find all comments by Elmer Schwartz
Authy wrote:
...By resisting Congress as the established authority per Rom.13...
Thanks for this info, as I've been patiently waiting to know just who the "governing authorities" are that God ordained. So you are saying "Congress." Ok great. Who is this Congress?
20

News Item12/28/10 7:57 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Authy wrote:
Thanks for that Mike.
1) Does that mean "government bodies" can make laws without Congress approval?
2) So the "free exercise thereof" - of Islam (Sharia) cannot be appealed to in this court, right?
3) Ref. Romans 13 - So the judge is effectively resisting God - By resisting Congress as the established authority per Rom.13. ???
1) Yes, they do it all the time. The 1st Amendment is a limit on federal government, (includes fed. judges) as are the other 9 of the Bill of Rights. The Supreme Court assumed its authority to later say "religion" was to be separate from "state," which morphed into removal of God from the local classroom, etc.

2) Right, but I'm not a liberal judge. The issue is whether state judges can consult Sharia law for use in an American court. It should NOT be allowed for one of two reasons: No authority has been granted judges to do so; it is religion, which as has been previously court-decided, is not welcome in "government" settings in the first place.

3) Not sure Rom 13 applies, but... The judge? She is resisting the people of Oklahoma's authority to amend their own constitution. They have the right by law to do so. She resists the governing authority, by not submitting to it.

19

News Item12/28/10 3:40 PM
Authy  Find all comments by Authy
Mike wrote:
1) CONGRESS shall make no law...(not "government bodies")
2) And by using the estab. clause, CAIR is admitting Sharia is religion, thus it cannot rightly be used as a preferred religious law in courts which claim to be separate from religious preference.
3)Oklahoma lawmakers upheld their law by denying Sharia in court. If you wish to apply Rom 13, the judge resists the ordinance of God.
Thanks for that Mike.

1) Does that mean "government bodies" can make laws without Congress approval?

2) So the "free exercise thereof" - of Islam (Sharia) cannot be appealed to in this court, right?

3) Ref. Romans 13 - So the judge is effectively resisting God - By resisting Congress as the established authority per Rom.13. ???
Is that what you mean.

18

News Item12/27/10 4:26 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Authy wrote:
..does the claimant state correctly that..
Article states..
"CAIR alleges the amendment violates the First Amendment's Establishment Clause that bars government bodies from making laws respecting the establishment of religion."
# Constitution..
"Through the debates in the House, Senate, and conference committees, the wording of all of these proposals was whittled down to the religion clauses of what is our 1st Amendment:
""Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.""
"In the end, the 1st Amendment not only prevents the establishment of a national religion, but it also prohibits government aid to any religion, even on an non-preferential basis, as well as protecting the right of the individual to choose to worship, or not, as he or she sees fit."
...too much "freedom"?
1) CONGRESS shall make no law...(not "government bodies")

2) And by using the estab. clause, CAIR is admitting Sharia is religion, thus it cannot rightly be used as a preferred religious law in courts which claim to be separate from religious preference.

3)Oklahoma lawmakers upheld their law by denying Sharia in court. If you wish to apply Rom 13, the judge resists the ordinance of God.

17

News Item12/25/10 6:04 AM
Authy  Find all comments by Authy
Mike wrote:
1) I will attempt to respond later. Busy days, family coming in. But I do hope that you will enjoy a blessed and peaceful Christmas, Authy.

2) "Angels, from the realms of glory,
Wing your flight o'er all the earth;
Ye, who sang creation's story,
Now proclaim Messiah's birth:
Come and worship,
Come and worship
Worship Christ, the new-born King."

1) Thanks Mike. All the best and love to you and your family.

2) Psalms Only.

"9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
10 All thy works shall praise thee, O LORD; and thy saints shall bless thee.
11 They shall speak of the glory of thy kingdom, and talk of thy power;
12 To make known to the sons of men his mighty acts, and the glorious majesty of his kingdom.
13 Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations.
14 The LORD upholdeth all that fall, and raiseth up all those that be bowed down.
15 The eyes of all wait upon thee; and thou givest them their meat in due season.
16 Thou openest thine hand, and satisfiest the desire of every living thing.
17 The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.
Psalm 145.

16

News Item12/25/10 12:16 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Authy wrote:
---
Article states...
"CAIR alleges the amendment violates the First Amendment's Establishment Clause that bars government bodies from making laws respecting the establishment of religion."
# Constitution....
"Through the debates in the House, Senate, and conference committees, the wording of all of these proposals was whittled down to the religion clauses of what is our 1st Amendment:
""Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.""
"In the end, the 1st Amendment not only prevents the establishment of a national religion, but it also prohibits government aid to any religion, even on an non-preferential basis, as well as protecting the right of the individual to choose to worship, or not, as he or she sees fit."
Has the freedom written into your laws created too much "freedom"?
I will attempt to respond later. Busy days, family coming in. But I do hope that you will enjoy a blessed and peaceful Christmas, Authy.

"Angels, from the realms of glory,
Wing your flight o'er all the earth;
Ye, who sang creation's story,
Now proclaim Messiah's birth:
Come and worship,
Come and worship
Worship Christ, the new-born King."

15

News Item12/23/10 3:04 PM
Authy  Find all comments by Authy
Mike wrote:
What would your position say about this matter?
Not being fully conversant with your laws, does the claimant state correctly that....

Article states...
"CAIR alleges the amendment violates the First Amendment's Establishment Clause that bars government bodies from making laws respecting the establishment of religion."

# Constitution....
"Through the debates in the House, Senate, and conference committees, the wording of all of these proposals was whittled down to the religion clauses of what is our 1st Amendment:

""Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.""

"In the end, the 1st Amendment not only prevents the establishment of a national religion, but it also prohibits government aid to any religion, even on an non-preferential basis, as well as protecting the right of the individual to choose to worship, or not, as he or she sees fit."

Has the freedom written into your laws created too much "freedom"?

14

News Item12/22/10 4:54 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Authy wrote:
Mike
Question. If you serve God in this world whether under a "good" government or an "evil" government, - will God look after you and direct your life according to HIS plan and purpose?
EG::
2Tim 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
2Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
Can GOD do this EVEN under the Democrats.
What has any of this to do with Democrats or Republicans, and why do you bring them up? Neither God's looking after us, nor are politicians, the issue.

The issue is, who is the governing authority in this article about this judge vs the governing authority of the legislature of Oklahoma. If you don't apply your position to real life, you won't see the conflicts that it engenders. Is the governing authority Oklahoma's legistators in denying sharia law in Okie courts, or is the judge in opposing them? Or is the Calvinist view whoever wins the fight is the governing authority? What would your position say about this matter?

13

News Item12/22/10 3:38 PM
Authy  Find all comments by Authy
Mike wrote:
Then it becomes clear, doesn't it? Since the judge is not a law-making authority, and refuses to submit to the law-making authority that rejected foreign sharia in Oklahoma courts, I take it Calvin would agree the judge is resisting the ordinance of God.
Mike
Question. If you serve God in this world whether under a "good" government or an "evil" government, - will God look after you and direct your life according to HIS plan and purpose?

EG::
2Tim 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

2Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Can GOD do this EVEN under the Democrats.

12

News Item12/22/10 3:15 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Authy wrote:
You tell em Mike.
Of course magistrates and Justice are an authority.
And ALL authority comes from God.
Titus 3:1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
Our dear old friend John Calvin says of this verse;
"Thus, after having spoken of particular duties, Paul now wishes to give a general admonition to all, to observe peaceably the order of civil government, to submit to the laws, to obey magistrates. That subjection to princes, and that obedience to magistrates, which he demands, is extended to edicts, and laws, and other parts of civil government." (Calvin's Titus commentary)
Aaahh the Sovereignty of God!
Then it becomes clear, doesn't it? Since the judge is not a law-making authority, and refuses to submit to the law-making authority that rejected foreign sharia in Oklahoma courts, I take it Calvin would agree the judge is resisting the ordinance of God.
11

News Item12/22/10 2:51 PM
Authy  Find all comments by Authy
Mike wrote:
A US federal judge is not a ruler, neither under Romans 13, nor under the US Constitution.
You tell em Mike.

Of course magistrates and Justice are an authority.

And ALL authority comes from God.

Titus 3:1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

Our dear old friend John Calvin says of this verse;

"Thus, after having spoken of particular duties, Paul now wishes to give a general admonition to all, to observe peaceably the order of civil government, to submit to the laws, to obey magistrates. That subjection to princes, and that obedience to magistrates, which he demands, is extended to edicts, and laws, and other parts of civil government." (Calvin's Titus commentary)

Aaahh the Sovereignty of God!

10

News Item12/22/10 12:37 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
B Newman wrote:
Hope, two things. (1) we are no longer under a theocracy, and (2) according to Rom 13, all governing authorities have been established by God, including erring men - and in this case, an erring woman.
A US federal judge is not a ruler, neither under Romans 13, nor under the US Constitution.
9

News Item12/22/10 10:09 AM
B Newman | Michigan  Contact via emailFind all comments by B Newman
Hope, two things. (1) we are no longer under a theocracy, and (2) according to Rom 13, all governing authorities have been established by God, including erring men - and in this case, an erring woman.
8

News Item11/14/10 3:17 PM
B Newman | Michigan  Contact via emailFind all comments by B Newman
Bob, you are making too much sense!
Hopefully, this judge is just insuring that everything is in order before passing final decision, but it still bothers me that Oklahoma doesn't have a judge somewhere that would say something real simple like, "I am so sorry, but personal religious law cannot over-ride Oklahoma law."
Maybe something good will come of this - maybe the dear folks in OK will get up off their duffs and vote the next time the polls are open.
7

News Item11/12/10 4:11 PM
Bob | USA  Find all comments by Bob
"A federal judge on Monday placed a temporary block on an Oklahoma amendment that bans state judges from consulting Sharia law"

I understand why Oklahoma passed this amendment but judges should not be consulting Sharia law anyway right? Just like they should not be consulting Iranian law, Russian law, etc. If at some point in time the Constitution adopts Sharia law then at that point the Oklahoma amendment becomes unconstitutional

6

News Item11/10/10 10:34 AM
Hope | US  Find all comments by Hope
just what's next wrote:
Whatever happened to WE THE PEOPLE?
Just what's next,
I was wondering what is next myself. I found some comfort and instruction in Isaiah 58-59.
My opinion which is only as valid as it agrees with the Scripture is that it is 'we the people' that is the problem. If God is the Creator, and Jesus Christ is the Redeemer of his people, given him by the Father; then as a member of the Triune Godhead, Christ should have the right to rule in any nation as part of his essential dominion as Creator. As the Redeemer of his donated people given him by the Father, the Church, he is Head. Separate institutions, different kinds responcibility, but all must be subject to God if he is God. Why be subject to a mixture of erring men and hold their word above God's?
5

News Item11/9/10 2:58 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Well, supposedly it is temporary, at least until the lawsuit is decided, but of course, Top ten reasons why sharia is bad for all societies
4
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